The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just got no offered...oh my fucking god...recommended but firm has financial reasons.

I have no idea what I'm going to do now. I'm fucked. Absolutely devastated.

Right now? Go get fucked up or do something to take your mind off it best you can. GTAV?

Tomorrow you can start thinking about it

I got no offered to, and you can come back

Feel free to PM if you need anything

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:21 pm

Just got no offered...oh my fucking god...recommended but firm has financial reasons.

I have no idea what I'm going to do now. I'm fucked. Absolutely devastated.


Welcome to hell man but seriously, if you are still a 3L, for the love of god do WHATEVER it takes to get a job now, because once you graduate, if you're jobless sucks. It is now almost October and I am out of money and out of hope for life, feeling like its pointless. Don't be in my shoes. Work hard and get a job even if it's as a law clerk at a tiny firm, as long as they will let you keep working after you graduate.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just got no offered...oh my fucking god...recommended but firm has financial reasons.

I have no idea what I'm going to do now. I'm fucked. Absolutely devastated.


Don't let it destroy you. Get back up and start hustling. You still have a year to get a jerb.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:44 pm

Thanks guys...I'm stunned and depressed right now. I don't know how to react. This fucking blows; I know it feels ridiculous to say my life feels meaningless but somehow it does right now.

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Lwoods
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lwoods » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:58 pm

I'm sorry if I'm staying the obvious now, but for those awaiting bar results, check Craigslist. I was just on there looking for part-time work, and there were a handful of positions posted in the past week that don't require experience. Salaries aren't great ($50-$60k), but manageable. Craigslist is always a crapshoot, but at least there are jobs listed.

Continued good luck, all.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I know it feels ridiculous to say my life feels meaningless but somehow it does right now.

Read the no-offer support thread; you'll find this is not an uncommon feeling. Your life is not worthless but it's perfectly natural to feel that way. It will get better.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:00 pm

Lwoods wrote:I'm sorry if I'm staying the obvious now, but for those awaiting bar results, check Craigslist. I was just on there looking for part-time work, and there were a handful of positions posted in the past week that don't require experience. Salaries aren't great ($50-$60k), but manageable. Craigslist is always a crapshoot, but at least there are jobs listed.

Continued good luck, all.


ooh, could you send a link to said jobs? i would claw my eye out for $50-60K.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Lwoods wrote:I'm sorry if I'm staying the obvious now, but for those awaiting bar results, check Craigslist. I was just on there looking for part-time work, and there were a handful of positions posted in the past week that don't require experience. Salaries aren't great ($50-$60k), but manageable. Craigslist is always a crapshoot, but at least there are jobs listed.

Continued good luck, all.


ooh, could you send a link to said jobs? i would claw my eye out for $50-60K.


This. If you don't have an offer from a 2L SA and think 50-60 is bad you're not living in reality.

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Lwoods
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lwoods » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:14 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Lwoods wrote:I'm sorry if I'm staying the obvious now, but for those awaiting bar results, check Craigslist. I was just on there looking for part-time work, and there were a handful of positions posted in the past week that don't require experience. Salaries aren't great ($50-$60k), but manageable. Craigslist is always a crapshoot, but at least there are jobs listed.

Continued good luck, all.


ooh, could you send a link to said jobs? i would claw my eye out for $50-60K.


This. If you don't have an offer from a 2L SA and think 50-60 is bad you're not living in reality.


Sorry, I didn't mean to be insulting. I was actually trying to avoid that (knowing some in here were no-offered from firms that pay $160k to new associates). Also these are jobs that may differ from what many of you are looking for.

Anyway, I'm looking for part-time work in Sam Diego, and I came across these associate positions for those admitted to the CA bar, for the most part. (considering I can't PM Anonymous, I'll post them here:)

ID firm (no salary) (LinkRemoved)

Plaintiff' boutique, salary tied to performance (start at $4k/month, expected first year $60k) (LinkRemoved)

LegalAid Staff Attorney ($55k/year) (LinkRemoved)

Doc review, 6-month project ($28/hour, if 40 hours/week, would be roughly $55k/year) (LinkRemoved)


Again, hope I wasn't stating the obvious or being infuriating; I just personally know I always forget about Craigslist.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:23 am

Sorry, I totally didn't mean it like that so sorry if it came off that way. We have a few people coming here saying "I'm unemployed but all I could find is 50-60K jobs so I gotta keep looking". I just wanna point out to them that 50-60K is likely the range they should be expecting once they dont have a 2L SA offer barring some awesome connections/luck. Hell, I'd kill for 50K right now.

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TTH
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:11 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Sorry, I totally didn't mean it like that so sorry if it came off that way. We have a few people coming here saying "I'm unemployed but all I could find is 50-60K jobs so I gotta keep looking". I just wanna point out to them that 50-60K is likely the range they should be expecting once they dont have a 2L SA offer barring some awesome connections/luck. Hell, I'd kill for 50K right now.


I'm not actually sure I can live on anything less than 50K, but I'd still kill for it.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:15 pm

TTH wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Sorry, I totally didn't mean it like that so sorry if it came off that way. We have a few people coming here saying "I'm unemployed but all I could find is 50-60K jobs so I gotta keep looking". I just wanna point out to them that 50-60K is likely the range they should be expecting once they dont have a 2L SA offer barring some awesome connections/luck. Hell, I'd kill for 50K right now.


I'm not actually sure I can live on anything less than 50K, but I'd still kill for it.


I'm not getting interviews for 35-45K right now so 50K seems like a dream.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:45 pm

I know we discussed this some time ago, but is anyone still doing informational interviews with success? I feel like I should, but is it worth spending what little I have left to go travel and meet people?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:19 pm

a male human wrote:I know we discussed this some time ago, but is anyone still doing informational interviews with success? I feel like I should, but is it worth spending what little I have left to go travel and meet people?


9 times out of 10 the attorney will cover your lunch cause they dont care. Coffee costs like $2 and so does the bus. If spending $10-15 per week (max) is going to severely dig into your savings then I think you are in a position where you need to seriously consider taking on a part time job (or three) to get yourself on your feet.

Idk, I'm not really a huge fan and have never heard of anyone actually getting something useful off an informational interview but they can't hurt. A long time ago someone on TLS (I wanna say romo, but thats just a guess) mentioned what they called "Organic networking" as the best source for jobs. Organic networking isn't an email asking to meet and force conversation, its natural conversations occuring outside of the legal realm and the "I need a damn job" mindset. Meeting someone at a party, meeting someone in line at a store, basically meeting people at random events that aren't networking events and basically just letting them know (among many other things that have nothing to do with work, law, etc.) that you recently took the bar and are looking for work. If they don't say anything then assume they got nothing to offer, but if they have something or know someone chances are they will say something assuming they like you. I got 3 contacts at different firms this way last week within the course of an hour by just showing up to a party, being friendly, talking to a bunch of people and simply saying I am a recent grad who just took the bar and can't wait to start looking for work once results are in. People were literally (no exaggeration) pulling out their phones to look through their contact list to see if they knew anyone that could help. Of course there were a bunch of people that I spoke with who didn't bite at all, and there was no point in pressuring them. If they don't know they don't know. The absolutely 100% worst thing you could do is come off desperate. Think of networking as "Getting to know people" and not as "I need a damn job right now".

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:46 pm

I agree with the above. That's why I think informational interviewing in its traditional form really is most useful if you're genuinely looking for information (besides where to find a job). So if you really do want to work in a particular practice area, you don't know much about it or have lots of experience with it, and you really do want to know the best route to get there, informational interviews are a good thing to do to find out about that practice area, and build up your network of connections along the way. Or if you want to make a transition of some kind (e.g. you've been working in criminal law but you think you want to change to civil lit), and you can find someone who did the same thing, meeting with them to talk about how they did it can be really helpful - you get information you need, but you also get the word out there among people you meet that you want to make this change. But it's more of a long-term investment in networking and if you don't really need information as much as you need a job, it can be a bit forced.

The organic kind of networking described above is probably more helpful (as well as doing things like getting involved in CLEs or the local bar association where, again, it's about something besides you getting a job right now).

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beach_terror
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby beach_terror » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:59 pm

I went from informational interview to law clerk interview to law clerk position to associate. I requested an informational interview from someone I had a weak connection to in a niche practice area. I used that to get a law clerk interview at a firm in the same niche practice. That led to my current job. Saying you met with person X about a certain practice area in a cover letter can go a long way, IMO.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:43 pm

beach_terror wrote:I went from informational interview to law clerk interview to law clerk position to associate. I requested an informational interview from someone I had a weak connection to in a niche practice area. I used that to get a law clerk interview at a firm in the same niche practice. That led to my current job. Saying you met with person X about a certain practice area in a cover letter can go a long way, IMO.

Yeah I've always had better luck with "[mutaul freind] recommended I contact you..."

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:46 pm

I don't understand looking for an entry-level attorney but not looking for anyone without bar results in Texas. By the time you get my resume, decide to interview me, schedule an interview, decide you like me, make an offer, have it accepted, and I start work, bar results will be out in like a week anyway.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:36 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
a male human wrote:I know we discussed this some time ago, but is anyone still doing informational interviews with success? I feel like I should, but is it worth spending what little I have left to go travel and meet people?


9 times out of 10 the attorney will cover your lunch cause they dont care. Coffee costs like $2 and so does the bus. If spending $10-15 per week (max) is going to severely dig into your savings then I think you are in a position where you need to seriously consider taking on a part time job (or three) to get yourself on your feet.

Idk, I'm not really a huge fan and have never heard of anyone actually getting something useful off an informational interview but they can't hurt. A long time ago someone on TLS (I wanna say romo, but thats just a guess) mentioned what they called "Organic networking" as the best source for jobs. Organic networking isn't an email asking to meet and force conversation, its natural conversations occuring outside of the legal realm and the "I need a damn job" mindset. Meeting someone at a party, meeting someone in line at a store, basically meeting people at random events that aren't networking events and basically just letting them know (among many other things that have nothing to do with work, law, etc.) that you recently took the bar and are looking for work. If they don't say anything then assume they got nothing to offer, but if they have something or know someone chances are they will say something assuming they like you. I got 3 contacts at different firms this way last week within the course of an hour by just showing up to a party, being friendly, talking to a bunch of people and simply saying I am a recent grad who just took the bar and can't wait to start looking for work once results are in. People were literally (no exaggeration) pulling out their phones to look through their contact list to see if they knew anyone that could help. Of course there were a bunch of people that I spoke with who didn't bite at all, and there was no point in pressuring them. If they don't know they don't know. The absolutely 100% worst thing you could do is come off desperate. Think of networking as "Getting to know people" and not as "I need a damn job right now".


That's an interesting story. I should probably get out more. About funds, I barely spend anything because I live with my parents and eat their food :(

I recently reconnected with an old boss, and he's given me some things to research and write about just in case he needs me on board later on for a trial happening in March.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I agree with the above. That's why I think informational interviewing in its traditional form really is most useful if you're genuinely looking for information (besides where to find a job). So if you really do want to work in a particular practice area, you don't know much about it or have lots of experience with it, and you really do want to know the best route to get there, informational interviews are a good thing to do to find out about that practice area, and build up your network of connections along the way. Or if you want to make a transition of some kind (e.g. you've been working in criminal law but you think you want to change to civil lit), and you can find someone who did the same thing, meeting with them to talk about how they did it can be really helpful - you get information you need, but you also get the word out there among people you meet that you want to make this change. But it's more of a long-term investment in networking and if you don't really need information as much as you need a job, it can be a bit forced.

The organic kind of networking described above is probably more helpful (as well as doing things like getting involved in CLEs or the local bar association where, again, it's about something besides you getting a job right now).


I do want to work in a particular area. My resume screams patents! However, I'm shit out of luck since I don't have a EE/CS background. I should have RSVP'd for that one CLE event...

lukertin
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lukertin » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:39 pm

a male human wrote:I do want to work in a particular area. My resume screams patents! However, I'm shit out of luck since I don't have a EE/CS background. I should have RSVP'd for that one CLE event...

go get a job at the USPTO

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:51 pm

lukertin wrote:
a male human wrote:I do want to work in a particular area. My resume screams patents! However, I'm shit out of luck since I don't have a EE/CS background. I should have RSVP'd for that one CLE event...

go get a job at the USPTO

Been following the USPTO examiner openings (have a daily alert set up). No openings atm. It's my very last resort because I don't want to move all the way across the country, albeit it'll only for a couple years before I can work remotely. The satellite office in San Jose was supposed to start hiring earlier this year, but the whole sequestration business held it back.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:20 pm

I have a friend who recently got work at the USPS as a mailman (mailperson?). I know it's not glamorous, but he told me they're hiring again for those type of positions (after not doing so for a while). It's a fed gov job with benefits. FYI.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have a friend who recently got work at the USPS as a mailman (mailperson?). I know it's not glamorous, but he told me they're hiring again for those type of positions (after not doing so for a while). It's a fed gov job with benefits. FYI.

Is s/he a law grad? Heard UPS drivers make decent money, like 50-80k?

I'm actually applying to be a cell phone repair person right now lmao
Last edited by a male human on Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:52 pm

Hi, Vale. I've been here a while. I took an internship after graduating. I just found out that I'll receive an offer as long as I pass the bar!

lolwat
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lolwat » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:10 pm

I have a friend who recently got work at the USPS as a mailman (mailperson?). I know it's not glamorous, but he told me they're hiring again for those type of positions (after not doing so for a while). It's a fed gov job with benefits. FYI.


Mail carrier is the official term, I think (my mom works as one and just got promoted to a regular carrier). USPS is, in fact, hiring quite a bit for various positions if people need temporary jobs. I mail lots of stuff from selling on eBay and talk to the clerks at the counters and they told me about some positions that were open.

Re: networking, it's all really just about (a) getting people to like you (b) that have connections (c) to places that are hiring someone at your level (i.e., an associate with 0 experience). All three have to be true for networking (whether informational interview, "organic networking," or otherwise) to yield an interview. That doesn't mean you shouldn't talk to people that can't get you anywhere (don't be like the stuck-up people in DC), but I've lost count of times where (a) I shoot the shit with associates for a while knowing they have no real pull anywhere, just to hang out and learn a bit more about what it's like to actually work and (b) I talk to partners and they tell me to pass them my resume and they'll pass it along, and they do but the firm (or the partner) gets back to me and says that the firm just isn't hiring. But then, there are the the few times where I talked to a partner, had them either pass my resume along or send an e-mail to someone in charge that I send my resume to, and a couple days later recruiting contacts me to set up an interview. Yes, that actually happens, but the chances are low because all of the above (a, b, and c) have to be true for this to work.

Random sidenote, I think I've finally come up with a half-decent strategy to interview in markets I have zero ties to.




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