The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I once interviewed with a guy who told me that his mother died that morning. Needless to say I didn't get the position.
The moral of the story is that interviews are completely random and have many factors you simply cannot control. If you interview with an attorney on the day that he received a huge bonus you have a better chance to land it because his positive mood will reflect on you. Likewise, if you are interviewing with an attorney on the day his wife told him she has been cheating on him for years and wants a divorce you aren't likely to get the job. Assuming you're not socially awkward and don't stutter and sweat profusely throughout interviews the best you can do is be yourself, lay out how you can contribute to helping the firm and understand that you have a solid shot just based on the firm taking time to interview you.

All this is very credited, but you have to get interviews for this to even be relevant. I feel like I interview well, but I can't get anyone to freaking sit down with me and do one!

[legalese_retard]

If you go to HYS, you should not worry.......Apply even outside law. A HYS degree is GOLDEN.

I hope you're right, dude, but I personally know at least 3 people from the class above mine who were unemployed upon (or at least very close to) graduation and they were, like me, very firm-centric. HYS definitely isn't as bulletproof as the world seems to believe. Thanks to those who suggested bankruptcy clerkships. They seem like at least a semi-viable option. As someone who knows next to nothing about clerkships, are bankruptcy/Delaware clerkships any more difficult than the average?

What markets are you targeting? Not sure if you have any interest in Texas, but Baker Botts in Austin is looking:

We are seeking an entry level corporate (M&A and capital
markets) associate. The ideal candidate will have attained a high
level of academic achievement. Outstanding offers from 2L
clerkships with firms with corporate departments will be also be
viewed favorably.
The position will start in the fall of 2014.

contact: Ms. Lindsey Kucharksi
Coordinator, Recruiting & Development
98 San Jacinto Boulevard Suite 1500 Austin, Texas 78701-4078
lindsey.kucharski@bakerbotts.com

[chrisbru]

Is it worth applying for consulting jobs? How would I even go about this/what is the timeframe?

[Anonymous User]

Is it worth applying for consulting jobs? How would I even go about this/what is the timeframe?

I went through a long period of applying for them like crazy last fall and got a few interviews. Management consulting sounded really good to me, interesting work and I liked the people I met quite a bit. Unfortunately I have no business experience at all and have never taken economics, so I bombed most of the practice cases and didn't get any offers. If you are good at math/econ/business at all, you should just apply to a few. I can post the list of places I applied to if you want. Those firms like people from high ranked law schools... mine was T4, which is why I think I got interviews despite my fine arts BA. Several people in my class went into management consulting after summering at law firms.

ETA: I just made a list of the top firms and applied on their websites. They are frequently recruiting, not such a grumpy schedule as law firms.

[lukertin]

Is it worth applying for consulting jobs? How would I even go about this/what is the timeframe?

You need to get a friend and practice case interviewing. Practice a LOT. They have books dedicated to case interviewing, go out and buy one if you're really serious about it. Otherwise don't even bother trying.

The only advice I have going in is, treat case interviews like an issue-spotter on a final exam. The thought process you must use is similar.

[$$$$$$]

I'll be starting at a non-MBB consulting firm in a month, feel free to PM me if you are interested in hearing about it. MBB are pretty much the few firms that recruit law students openly, but the firm I am at did not have any case interviews and so time was much better spent figuring out answers to behavioral questions. MBB is pretty much impossible unless you have connections and go to a T6 school. At my T-14, two kids in the last five years have gotten jobs at McKinsey and 1 at BCG, and none were in the NYC office.

[Anonymous User]

Is it worth applying for consulting jobs? How would I even go about this/what is the timeframe?

I went through a long period of applying for them like crazy last fall and got a few interviews. Management consulting sounded really good to me, interesting work and I liked the people I met quite a bit. Unfortunately I have no business experience at all and have never taken economics, so I bombed most of the practice cases and didn't get any offers. If you are good at math/econ/business at all, you should just apply to a few. I can post the list of places I applied to if you want. Those firms like people from high ranked law schools... mine was T4, which is why I think I got interviews despite my fine arts BA. Several people in my class went into management consulting after summering at law firms.

ETA: I just made a list of the top firms and applied on their websites. They are frequently recruiting, not such a grumpy schedule as law firms.

Do you mind posting the list of firms you applied/interviewed. I am seriously considering this "option" and have already unsuccessfully interviewed with McKinsey. I am however not sure where to apply beyond MBB... I mean I know firms, I just do not know whether they really like or consider JDs.

Additionally, I asked this before, but has any fellow valers considered taking CPA exam and applying to Big4 accounting? Any clues as to how common and doable this route is. Also, does anyone know how to get into the radar of the Big4 firms. Do I just apply on their websites, or do they have fast tracked recruiting procedures like BigLaw and MBB does...

[$$$$$$]

Is it worth applying for consulting jobs? How would I even go about this/what is the timeframe?

I went through a long period of applying for them like crazy last fall and got a few interviews. Management consulting sounded really good to me, interesting work and I liked the people I met quite a bit. Unfortunately I have no business experience at all and have never taken economics, so I bombed most of the practice cases and didn't get any offers. If you are good at math/econ/business at all, you should just apply to a few. I can post the list of places I applied to if you want. Those firms like people from high ranked law schools... mine was T4, which is why I think I got interviews despite my fine arts BA. Several people in my class went into management consulting after summering at law firms.

ETA: I just made a list of the top firms and applied on their websites. They are frequently recruiting, not such a grumpy schedule as law firms.

Do you mind posting the list of firms you applied/interviewed. I am seriously considering this "option" and have already unsuccessfully interviewed with McKinsey. I am however not sure where to apply beyond MBB... I mean I know firms, I just do not know whether they really like or consider JDs.

Additionally, I asked this before, but has any fellow valers considered taking CPA exam and applying to Big4 accounting? Any clues as to how common and doable this route is. Also, does anyone know how to get into the radar of the Big4 firms. Do I just apply on their websites, or do they have fast tracked recruiting procedures like BigLaw and MBB does...

No clue about CPA stuff, but Big 4 firms hire JDs for their advisory practice. PM me for more details

[rad lulz]

Is it worth applying for consulting jobs? How would I even go about this/what is the timeframe?

I went through a long period of applying for them like crazy last fall and got a few interviews. Management consulting sounded really good to me, interesting work and I liked the people I met quite a bit. Unfortunately I have no business experience at all and have never taken economics, so I bombed most of the practice cases and didn't get any offers. If you are good at math/econ/business at all, you should just apply to a few. I can post the list of places I applied to if you want. Those firms like people from high ranked law schools... mine was T4, which is why I think I got interviews despite my fine arts BA. Several people in my class went into management consulting after summering at law firms.

ETA: I just made a list of the top firms and applied on their websites. They are frequently recruiting, not such a grumpy schedule as law firms.

Do you mind posting the list of firms you applied/interviewed. I am seriously considering this "option" and have already unsuccessfully interviewed with McKinsey. I am however not sure where to apply beyond MBB... I mean I know firms, I just do not know whether they really like or consider JDs.

Additionally, I asked this before, but has any fellow valers considered taking CPA exam and applying to Big4 accounting? Any clues as to how common and doable this route is. Also, does anyone know how to get into the radar of the Big4 firms. Do I just apply on their websites, or do they have fast tracked recruiting procedures like BigLaw and MBB does...

Pm Anthony Davis in re CPA

[Joe Quincy]

If you go to HYS, you should not worry.......Apply even outside law. A HYS degree is GOLDEN.

I hope you're right, dude, but I personally know at least 3 people from the class above mine who were unemployed upon (or at least very close to) graduation and they were, like me, very firm-centric. HYS definitely isn't as bulletproof as the world seems to believe. Thanks to those who suggested bankruptcy clerkships. They seem like at least a semi-viable option. As someone who knows next to nothing about clerkships, are bankruptcy/Delaware clerkships any more difficult than the average?

What markets are you targeting? Not sure if you have any interest in Texas, but Baker Botts in Austin is looking:

We are seeking an entry level corporate (M&A and capital
markets) associate. The ideal candidate will have attained a high
level of academic achievement. Outstanding offers from 2L
clerkships with firms with corporate departments will be also be
viewed favorably.
The position will start in the fall of 2014.

contact: Ms. Lindsey Kucharksi
Coordinator, Recruiting & Development
98 San Jacinto Boulevard Suite 1500 Austin, Texas 78701-4078
lindsey.kucharski@bakerbotts.com

I mean sure, apply for it...but I read this post as looking exclusively for people finishing clerkships with offers from the original SA firm. That's the only way you'd have an outstanding offer that hasn't been accepted at this point.

[Anonymous User]

Do you mind posting the list of firms you applied/interviewed.

AT Kearney
Accenture
Analysis Group
Bain & Company
Gallup
KPMG
L.E.K.
McKinsey Consulting
Roland Berger
ZS Associates
Boston Consulting Group
Charles River Associates
Booz & Company
Deloitte Consulting
Ernst & Young
FTI Consulting
Huron Consulting
Monitor Group
Parthenon group
PricewaterhouseCoopers
Alvarez & Marsal (A&M)
Capgemini
NERA Economic consulting
CMC Consultants

[chrisbru]

Is it worth applying for consulting jobs? How would I even go about this/what is the timeframe?

I went through a long period of applying for them like crazy last fall and got a few interviews. Management consulting sounded really good to me, interesting work and I liked the people I met quite a bit. Unfortunately I have no business experience at all and have never taken economics, so I bombed most of the practice cases and didn't get any offers. If you are good at math/econ/business at all, you should just apply to a few. I can post the list of places I applied to if you want. Those firms like people from high ranked law schools... mine was T4, which is why I think I got interviews despite my fine arts BA. Several people in my class went into management consulting after summering at law firms.

ETA: I just made a list of the top firms and applied on their websites. They are frequently recruiting, not such a grumpy schedule as law firms.

Think I'll have a chance as a top 1/3 at a T30 law school? I have a B.S. in Finance (barely 3.0 GPA though) but my SAT math score is perfect and I got a 171 on the LSAT. I feel like a splitter all over again.

[Anonymous User]

T-14 school, was in veil for a long while, no SA, No prior work experience before undergrad, Mediocre 1L grades, great but not OUTSTANDING grades as 2L. Networked like a crazy monKAY, mass mailed, symplicitied, everythinged.... Out of veil... at a V-50 firm.... There be hope... Everyone - Keep going, keep mailing, keep networking....don't lose hope....

[a male human]

T-14 school, was in veil for a long while, no SA, No prior work experience before undergrad, Mediocre 1L grades, great but not OUTSTANDING grades as 2L. Networked like a crazy monKAY, mass mailed, symplicitied, everythinged.... Out of veil... at a V-50 firm.... There be hope... Everyone - Keep going, keep mailing, keep networking....don't lose hope....

Congrats! Mind telling us how you ended up getting the interview and the offer?

[kalvano]

I hate having a good interview, and then hearing "we are going to 3 more schools to interview, and then will begin scheduling 2nd interviews."

That's a lot of people.

[rad lulz]

I hate having a good interview, and then hearing "we are going to 3 more schools to interview, and then will begin scheduling 2nd interviews."

That's a lot of people.

Plus side: your interview went well. Something to be glad about at least.

[jess]

.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody have success with following up? It only seems to hasten the rejection process.

[a male human]

Anybody have success with following up? It only seems to hasten the rejection process.

I plan to call tomorrow morning. Will report back.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone applying to the EJW fair in DC?

[mr. wednesday]

Can anyone clarify what exactly is a secondary market and a tertiary market? Are these unofficial lists of less competitive markets in the U.S.?

There's no list and 2ndary and 3tiary markets aren't necessarily less competitive

A secondary market is like Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami, Denver, etc. A tertiary market is like Pittsburgh, Charlotte, Tampa, etc. The problem is that while the smaller markets tend to be more forgiving grade-wise, and willing to hire non-T14 grads, they also look at anyone who isn't from that area with suspicion and don't believe that you'll willing to stay there long term. Most tertiary and many secondary markets are very insular. So if you have ties to them, they are less competitive. If you don't, they'll be just as hard or harder but in a different way.

[a male human]

Can anyone clarify what exactly is a secondary market and a tertiary market? Are these unofficial lists of less competitive markets in the U.S.?

There's no list and 2ndary and 3tiary markets aren't necessarily less competitive

A secondary market is like Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami, Denver, etc. A tertiary market is like Pittsburgh, Charlotte, Tampa, etc. The problem is that while the smaller markets tend to be more forgiving grade-wise, and willing to hire non-T14 grads, they also look at anyone who isn't from that area with suspicion and don't believe that you'll willing to stay there long term. Most tertiary and many secondary markets are very insular. So if you have ties to them, they are less competitive. If you don't, they'll be just as hard or harder but in a different way.

Thanks for the insight.

[rad lulz]

Can anyone clarify what exactly is a secondary market and a tertiary market? Are these unofficial lists of less competitive markets in the U.S.?

There's no list and 2ndary and 3tiary markets aren't necessarily less competitive

A secondary market is like Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami, Denver, etc. A tertiary market is like Pittsburgh, Charlotte, Tampa, etc. The problem is that while the smaller markets tend to be more forgiving grade-wise, and willing to hire non-T14 grads, they also look at anyone who isn't from that area with suspicion and don't believe that you'll willing to stay there long term. Most tertiary and many secondary markets are very insular. So if you have ties to them, they are less competitive. If you don't, they'll be just as hard or harder but in a different way.

Thanks for the insight.

Tertiary markets are also pretty competitive (in addition to the reasons above) because there doesn't tend to be a lot of jobs

[jess]

.

[kalvano]

Potential jobs >>>>>>>>> couple classes.