The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:04 pm

For the Super Valers who may be coming off a clerkship:

Clerk- United States Bankruptcy Court for the District of Colorado (Denver, CO)

The judicial law clerk researches issues of law, attends court proceedings, and makes
recommendations based on the law, to assigned judicial officer. The judicial law clerk must be
able to exercise a good deal of responsibility and must use good judgment. Excellent writing
skills are required. Knowledge of bankruptcy and business law is preferred. There is daily
interaction with the judicial officers of the U.S. Bankruptcy Court and other law clerks
concerning legal and court-related issues. This is a temporary full time position. This position
has a not to exceed date of September 30, 2014 and is eligible for federal government
benefits. Expected start date is October 1, 2013 or soon after. Due to the national budget
situation that the Judiciary is facing, this position is specially funded and based upon Judicial
Conference funding approval for fiscal year 2014. The incumbent will be appointed to the
chambers of Chief Judge Howard R. Tallman for the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the District of
Colorado. Duty station is located at 1929 Stout Street, Denver, Colorado. Information
regarding the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the District of Colorado can be found at
http://www.cob.uscourts.gov

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:50 pm

Well, went 5 for 9 in 3LOL OCI with pre-selects, but none of my top three. Here's hoping that I can snag one of those through lottery (though I'm sure it won't matter) and that at least one of the 5 that pre-selected me wants to call me back.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
TooOld4This wrote:
a male human wrote:If I emailed a partner at a firm to be a volunteer (used the word "clerk" at a small firm where I interned as a rising 2L) this past weekend and haven't heard back, how long should I wait until I follow up? Should I call rather than email at that follow-up? I had a problem with being too pushy not too long ago, and I want to make sure I don't fuck it up this time. If I can't even get a volunteer position at a firm that knows me, I'm truly going to be sad.


Good that you recognize that your instincts are a little off now due to stress!

Unless otherwise told, I would never follow up until at least 5 business days have passed. So if you mailed this past weekend, I'd wait until at least Thursday of next week. (You should not expect that he looked at until Tuesday, making yesterday day one. Today is Rosh Hashanah, so I might not count today.)

Phone calls are intrusive. I would only use them if you have a relationship with the person you are calling, or are calling about a core job function (i.e. HR/Recruiting person). Even then, think twice.

There is a whole list of reasons that it is generally a bad idea to take on "volunteers." You probably have a better chance at getting a low-paid clerk position.

As harsh as it sounds, you have to remember hiring takes place at the employer's timetable. There is nothing, short of informing a potential employer you have another offer, that will quicken the pace. "Following up" generally will do nothing to help your application. Well spaced, polite inquiries can help your anxiety and are generally well tolerated, but aren't likely to advance your application. It is rare that an employer "forgets" about an applicant they are interested in.

Good luck.


I disagree. Partners are busy. If you email them and they ignore you, a simple message or calling them up might be helpful. It shows that you follow up and you have the courage to speak to them.

I got a law clerking gig at a V100 firm doing this. But, that is how I roll.

Both good advice. Let me add more information to this.

This firm has an internship program where you are unpaid, but the experience you get is actually quite good. I worked for the managing partner as an intern, and I was given real responsibility with actual cases. Having talked to another intern who worked for the one I'm trying to contact, it seems like he learned a lot, and it was a good experience. Since the firm has this kind of philosophy, I thought as a graduate I might be able to work there for little to no pay. I'm fine with either as long as I get good guidance and experience. Last time I talked to her, she seemed open to taking me on. Things could have changed since that was a year ago.

It's business day 3, and I haven't heard back from the partner (feels longer than it actually has been). Based on previous emails, she responds within the day. Of course, inquiring about clerkships is a different kind of communication, so I understand if she needs to sit on it for a while. If a phone call is fine, I'll give it a shot next Tuesday. If phone is too intrusive, I guess I'll nudge her over email (not sure what to say).

Myself
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Postby Myself » Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:11 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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JenDarby
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:15 pm

chrisbru wrote:Well, went 5 for 9 in 3LOL OCI with pre-selects, but none of my top three. Here's hoping that I can snag one of those through lottery (though I'm sure it won't matter) and that at least one of the 5 that pre-selected me wants to call me back.

Wow, good luck!! Congrats on pulling that many screeners.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:06 pm

JenDarby wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Well, went 5 for 9 in 3LOL OCI with pre-selects, but none of my top three. Here's hoping that I can snag one of those through lottery (though I'm sure it won't matter) and that at least one of the 5 that pre-selected me wants to call me back.

Wow, good luck!! Congrats on pulling that many screeners.

Yeah that's pretty good bro. Good luck.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:14 pm

Out of market PD gigs I have no connection to - put something in cover letter about their city/office re: why I want to be there, or just talk myself up as best as possible and don't try because it might sound stupid/weak?

Myself
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Postby Myself » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:27 pm

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:32 pm

rad lulz wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Well, went 5 for 9 in 3LOL OCI with pre-selects, but none of my top three. Here's hoping that I can snag one of those through lottery (though I'm sure it won't matter) and that at least one of the 5 that pre-selected me wants to call me back.

Wow, good luck!! Congrats on pulling that many screeners.

Yeah that's pretty good bro. Good luck.


Thanks all! I'd be more excited if any of them were < 2 hours from the SO's potential schools (whomp whomp) but I'm happy to be having at least some bites.

They are rocking 21-slot interview schedules though. Yikes.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:35 pm

ajax adonis wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Out of market PD gigs I have no connection to - put something in cover letter about their city/office re: why I want to be there, or just talk myself up as best as possible and don't try because it might sound stupid/weak?


Is it a big market like Los Angeles? If it is, you probably don't have to explain your connection too much. If it's someplace small and kind of out in the boonies, you may try to put something reasonable, but only if it passes the laugh test. If you were an interviewer reading the CL, would you at least somewhat buy your connection?

Good advice. Thanks.

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alicrimson
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby alicrimson » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:10 pm

Hi everyone,

I have been brought in on a job hunt mission, and I thought I would consult the wisdom of TLS. We are beginning tomorrow and are formulating a checklist of options to go through. Of course one of those items is mass-mailing. When/if you all did this, what sort of things do you put in a cover letter? Would you do specific cities/specialty and just mail merge all firms in that city/specialty? Did you reach out to alumni at firms? Did you send this to a recruiter?

Sorry for the influx of questions, I just want to figure out how this is done.

Thanks!

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:21 pm

There are a couple of guides to mass mailing linked in this thread, conveniently stickied at the top of the legal employment forum: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=120382

alicrimson wrote:Hi everyone,

I have been brought in on a job hunt mission, and I thought I would consult the wisdom of TLS. We are beginning tomorrow and are formulating a checklist of options to go through. Of course one of those items is mass-mailing. When/if you all did this, what sort of things do you put in a cover letter? Would you do specific cities/specialty and just mail merge all firms in that city/specialty? Did you reach out to alumni at firms? Did you send this to a recruiter?

Sorry for the influx of questions, I just want to figure out how this is done.

Thanks!

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:18 pm

alicrimson wrote:Hi everyone,

I have been brought in on a job hunt mission, and I thought I would consult the wisdom of TLS. We are beginning tomorrow and are formulating a checklist of options to go through. Of course one of those items is mass-mailing. When/if you all did this, what sort of things do you put in a cover letter? Would you do specific cities/specialty and just mail merge all firms in that city/specialty? Did you reach out to alumni at firms? Did you send this to a recruiter?

Sorry for the influx of questions, I just want to figure out how this is done.

Thanks!

Don't you have a job?

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:23 pm

Still jobless past my August deadline. Sticking around to see if the gov positions where my app is still pending go through. Some positive signs from them so hopefully it works out, otherwise I'm at the end pretty much, can't see any hope anymore.

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newyorker88
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby newyorker88 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Still jobless past my August deadline. Sticking around to see if the gov positions where my app is still pending go through. Some positive signs from them so hopefully it works out, otherwise I'm at the end pretty much, can't see any hope anymore.


How long ago did you graduate?

Void
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Still jobless past my August deadline. Sticking around to see if the gov positions where my app is still pending go through. Some positive signs from them so hopefully it works out, otherwise I'm at the end pretty much, can't see any hope anymore.


Dude, there is a lot more to life than getting a legal job. There must be something that makes you happy other than the thought of going to work every day, right?

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:33 am

Void wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Still jobless past my August deadline. Sticking around to see if the gov positions where my app is still pending go through. Some positive signs from them so hopefully it works out, otherwise I'm at the end pretty much, can't see any hope anymore.


Dude, there is a lot more to life than getting a legal job. There must be something that makes you happy other than the thought of going to work every day, right?



Ugh. I can't stand your spinning profile pic.

Void
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:37 am

sparty99 wrote:
Void wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Still jobless past my August deadline. Sticking around to see if the gov positions where my app is still pending go through. Some positive signs from them so hopefully it works out, otherwise I'm at the end pretty much, can't see any hope anymore.


Dude, there is a lot more to life than getting a legal job. There must be something that makes you happy other than the thought of going to work every day, right?



Ugh. I can't stand your spinning profile pic.


Thanks?

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:44 am

Jessuf wrote:Dear anonymous poster from a while ago who was talking about clerking for free for a DA's office: I know several people who did that for about 6 months and are now employed full time there.


Same anon poster from earlier.
Outlook not too bright here - there's 20 of us post bar clerks. 3 people are returning 2L honors, which leaves 17+ for about MAYBE 2-3 more spots (MAYBE). But it only goes until beginning of December (or bar results if you fail) and then it's over.
I'm basically giving up on law here. It's nice to do prelims and argue motions, but I'm never going to find someone to pay me decent enough (read: anything) to be worthwhile for putting up with this shit. Probably start applying to entry level sales jobs at tech companies, try to slave away there for 6 months - 1 yr to try and step into something else.

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:44 am

rad lulz wrote:
alicrimson wrote:Hi everyone,

I have been brought in on a job hunt mission, and I thought I would consult the wisdom of TLS. We are beginning tomorrow and are formulating a checklist of options to go through. Of course one of those items is mass-mailing. When/if you all did this, what sort of things do you put in a cover letter? Would you do specific cities/specialty and just mail merge all firms in that city/specialty? Did you reach out to alumni at firms? Did you send this to a recruiter?

Sorry for the influx of questions, I just want to figure out how this is done.

Thanks!

Don't you have a job?


he or she is trying to help a friend in the vale.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:29 am

BlueLotus wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
alicrimson wrote:Hi everyone,

I have been brought in on a job hunt mission, and I thought I would consult the wisdom of TLS. We are beginning tomorrow and are formulating a checklist of options to go through. Of course one of those items is mass-mailing. When/if you all did this, what sort of things do you put in a cover letter? Would you do specific cities/specialty and just mail merge all firms in that city/specialty? Did you reach out to alumni at firms? Did you send this to a recruiter?

Sorry for the influx of questions, I just want to figure out how this is done.

Thanks!

Don't you have a job?


he or she is trying to help a friend in the vale.


This. Also iirc alicrimson is female.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:34 am

It's sad that I spent 100k for a legal degree and am shooting for a job that pays 40k while my gf got a 45k job 3 months after graduating from college....boy, the honor of being a lawyer just vanished.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:38 am

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Void
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:25 am

ajax adonis wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Void wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Still jobless past my August deadline. Sticking around to see if the gov positions where my app is still pending go through. Some positive signs from them so hopefully it works out, otherwise I'm at the end pretty much, can't see any hope anymore.


Dude, there is a lot more to life than getting a legal job. There must be something that makes you happy other than the thought of going to work every day, right?



Ugh. I can't stand your spinning profile pic.


I have to agree man. Get rid of it. I avoid reading your posts because of it.


Oh man, Ajox Adonis avoids reading my poasts??? I'll get rid of it IMMEDIATELY! Thanks for the tip!!!

Void
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:It's sad that I spent 100k for a legal degree and am shooting for a job that pays 40k while my gf got a 45k job 3 months after graduating from college....boy, the honor of being a lawyer just vanished.


The "honor of being a lawyer" is tied directly to income? Something about that doesn't feel a lot like honor to me.




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