The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:40 pm

I have 3 friends that did this and got offers. Two worked for about 6 months for free and the third worked a year. The only real problem was that all three worked full time, meaning that they basically had no other time to do anything. Parents covered most of the bills and they worked at a grocery store part time on the weekends to have spending cash.

Also, a lot of offices won't even let you volunteer which I find ridiculous. The office I wanted to do this with flat out said they have no use for unbarred volunteers, which at least tells me they actually send their volunteers to trial.

Void
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:45 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:I have 3 friends that did this and got offers. Two worked for about 6 months for free and the third worked a year. The only real problem was that all three worked full time, meaning that they basically had no other time to do anything. Parents covered most of the bills and they worked at a grocery store part time on the weekends to have spending cash.

Also, a lot of offices won't even let you volunteer which I find ridiculous. The office I wanted to do this with flat out said they have no use for unbarred volunteers, which at least tells me they actually send their volunteers to trial.


Fwiw there's a volunteer in my office right now who everyone wishes would leave, but they can't really fire him/her because s/he is a volunteer. Maybe the offices that don't accept volunteers are just trying to avoid this shitty situation.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:52 pm

Void wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:I have 3 friends that did this and got offers. Two worked for about 6 months for free and the third worked a year. The only real problem was that all three worked full time, meaning that they basically had no other time to do anything. Parents covered most of the bills and they worked at a grocery store part time on the weekends to have spending cash.

Also, a lot of offices won't even let you volunteer which I find ridiculous. The office I wanted to do this with flat out said they have no use for unbarred volunteers, which at least tells me they actually send their volunteers to trial.


Fwiw there's a volunteer in my office right now who everyone wishes would leave, but they can't really fire him/her because s/he is a volunteer. Maybe the offices that don't accept volunteers are just trying to avoid this shitty situation.


That reminds me of that old Seinfeld episode where Kramer just starts going into this job everyday even though he was never hired. After a few weeks of this the boss calls him into his office and says:

Boss: I'm afraid we're going to have to let you go.
Kramer: But I don't even work here.
Boss: That's what makes this so difficult.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:00 pm

All of that sounds pretty promising; thank you all for your input and anecdotes. I wonder if it's worth it to see if another DA office in a bordering county (there are probably three county DA offices within commuting range, maybe four) would accept a part-time volunteer too and split the week half and half.

Gorki
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Gorki » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:20 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:I have 3 friends that did this and got offers. Two worked for about 6 months for free and the third worked a year. The only real problem was that all three worked full time, meaning that they basically had no other time to do anything. Parents covered most of the bills and they worked at a grocery store part time on the weekends to have spending cash.

Also, a lot of offices won't even let you volunteer which I find ridiculous. The office I wanted to do this with flat out said they have no use for unbarred volunteers, which at least tells me they actually send their volunteers to trial.


Said firm is just waiting to be shuttered. Honestly you could botch up so goddamn bad, learn the ropes through minimal competence to avoid discipline, get acquainted w/the court's filing systems (a huge plus IMHO), and get at least base-line experience while sending that wretched and befouled "law practice" down shit creek.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:17 pm

The front desk of OCS is littered with incorrect information, which is really frustrating. Being forced to make a 30-minute appointment when I have a 30-second question because the front desk can't be trusted is ridiculous.

buddingjd
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby buddingjd » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:42 am

I know 95% of you are doing this/have done this already, but just wanted to pass along a friendly reminder. Brainstorm to see if you can come up with any untapped contacts: ANYONE that you have ever had coffee or lunch with/gone to school with/played pickup basketball with, etc. I have been sending emails with "Hey blah blah, remember that time 18 months ago that we briefly met and talked about blah blah? Well, I know most of your hiring is done through your summer associate program, but I wanted to pass along my information in case your firm has any unanticipated needs." I wasn't expecting much beyond keeping in touch, but I have gotten two CB style interviews at market-paying firms (mid-sized cities that I have ties to) this week. People want to help you, especially recent grads, and if you have shown them in a social setting that you are not a sociopath they will probably send your stuff with a friendly recommendation to the recruiting director, at the very least. Also, do it now. People are still in the recruiting mode from 2L OCI. Keep grinding, folks.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:39 am

Hi. I'm the guy who talked about getting the 35k/yr offer from a solo bankruptcy guy. The negatives were the low pay, would have to drive alot, work 50-70 hr per week, and requiring a 2-year commitment. I just received a call from his secretary and he is officially offering me the job on Sunday. I spoke with one of my professors about it, and she thinks that it's a great opportunity to get experience. I spoke with my gf (and her business-savvy parents) and they think I should hold out for something better when bar results come out. I don't know what to do. Thoughts?

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:42 am

Do it with no contract.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:46 am

kalvano wrote:Do it with no contract.


Not an option.

hiima3L
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hiima3L » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:Hi. I'm the guy who talked about getting the 35k/yr offer from a solo bankruptcy guy. The negatives were the low pay, would have to drive alot, work 50-70 hr per week, and requiring a 2-year commitment. I just received a call from his secretary and he is officially offering me the job on Sunday. I spoke with one of my professors about it, and she thinks that it's a great opportunity to get experience. I spoke with my gf (and her business-savvy parents) and they think I should hold out for something better when bar results come out. I don't know what to do. Thoughts?


Are your gf's business-savvy parents lawyers? If they are, are they successful lawyers?

Unless they are struggling lawyers they have 0 appreciation for the state of the legal market. It is unbelievable how out of touch with reality everyone but struggling law students/lawyers are. I would not listen to job advice from anyone else.

Take the job. Worst comes to worst, you quit or get fired, or have a not great job for 2 years.

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bk1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:05 am

What do you think the lawyer will do if you quit before the two years are up?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:08 am

hiima3L wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi. I'm the guy who talked about getting the 35k/yr offer from a solo bankruptcy guy. The negatives were the low pay, would have to drive alot, work 50-70 hr per week, and requiring a 2-year commitment. I just received a call from his secretary and he is officially offering me the job on Sunday. I spoke with one of my professors about it, and she thinks that it's a great opportunity to get experience. I spoke with my gf (and her business-savvy parents) and they think I should hold out for something better when bar results come out. I don't know what to do. Thoughts?


Are your gf's business-savvy parents lawyers? If they are, are they successful lawyers?

Unless they are struggling lawyers they have 0 appreciation for the state of the legal market. It is unbelievable how out of touch with reality everyone but struggling law students/lawyers are. I would not listen to job advice from anyone else.

Take the job. Worst comes to worst, you quit or get fired, or have a not great job for 2 years.


They've taken on the role as my unofficial parents now, so I at least have to listen to them. They just want to make sure I'm looking at the big picture in all of this. My long term goals are to either 1) work in commercial litigation, 2) become a judge, or 3) work in-house for her dad's contracting company. I'm not sure whether or not this job helps with that, but it is a job.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:09 am

bk1 wrote:What do you think the lawyer will do if you quit before the two years are up?


I don't really know. I think I'm going to ask about all of this when I meet with him to hammer out the details on Sunday. I sold myself as wanting to stay in the region long-term to get the job. I wouldn't mind staying in the region, but marrying the gf would require moving to her state.

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TTH
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:23 am

Hey Bros,

I got a call about a job as a site acquisition bro for some company that builds cell phone towers or something. Has anyone ever done anything like this? I get more or less what the work is like: probably a lot of meeting with landowners and getting them to sign leases and stuff, but I'm wondering how it's compensated. Is the compensation mainly salary or mainly commission/incentive based? tyia

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ninereal » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:10 pm

hiima3L wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi. I'm the guy who talked about getting the 35k/yr offer from a solo bankruptcy guy. The negatives were the low pay, would have to drive alot, work 50-70 hr per week, and requiring a 2-year commitment. I just received a call from his secretary and he is officially offering me the job on Sunday. I spoke with one of my professors about it, and she thinks that it's a great opportunity to get experience. I spoke with my gf (and her business-savvy parents) and they think I should hold out for something better when bar results come out. I don't know what to do. Thoughts?


Are your gf's business-savvy parents lawyers? If they are, are they successful lawyers?

Unless they are struggling lawyers they have 0 appreciation for the state of the legal market. It is unbelievable how out of touch with reality everyone but struggling law students/lawyers are. I would not listen to job advice from anyone else.

Take the job. Worst comes to worst, you quit or get fired, or have a not great job for 2 years.


I've been doing coffee things with a bunch of lawyers around the area while waiting for bar results, and my dad asked me the other night "how many of them can actually give you a job?"

FUCKING NONE OF THEM OKAY I'M JUST SHAKING BRANCHES AND HOPING AN ACORN FALLS

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kalvano wrote:Do it with no contract.


Not an option.


Then I wouldn't do it. He knows it's shit pay and that you'll want to bail as soon as you get a better offer. Hence the contract.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:33 pm

Do you guys think there is any value for a jerbless rising 3L to be a TA?

adonai
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby adonai » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do you guys think there is any value for a jerbless rising 3L to be a TA?

There is value if the professor can hook you up with a jerb. If you are doing it because you are "fascinated and intrigued by the law" and want to help students, don't do it.

ninereal
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ninereal » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:37 pm

adonai wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Do you guys think there is any value for a jerbless rising 3L to be a TA?

There is value if the professor can hook you up with a jerb. If you are doing it because you are "fascinated and intrigued by the law" and want to help students, don't do it.


might also help for demonstrating interest in a specific area

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cinephile
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby cinephile » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi. I'm the guy who talked about getting the 35k/yr offer from a solo bankruptcy guy. The negatives were the low pay, would have to drive alot, work 50-70 hr per week, and requiring a 2-year commitment. I just received a call from his secretary and he is officially offering me the job on Sunday. I spoke with one of my professors about it, and she thinks that it's a great opportunity to get experience. I spoke with my gf (and her business-savvy parents) and they think I should hold out for something better when bar results come out. I don't know what to do. Thoughts?


I never take advice from anyone working for my law school. They are not looking out for your interests, they're only looking out for the law school. And it looks better for the school's data to have you in a 35k/year job that's JD required than doing something that doesn't require a JD but pays more/has more reasonable hours/isn't holding you to a 2 year contract. If you have to ask the advice of a lawyer or professor, talk to someone whose interests aren't adverse to your own.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:19 pm

I would take it ONLY IF it's your area of interest + you wouldn't mind working for free at the same job for the experience. Rather than get 35k for a 50-70-hour job, can you make it no pay at 30-40 hours? With the extra time you can make cash on the side and do other personal things.

hiima3L
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hiima3L » Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:20 pm

adonai wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Do you guys think there is any value for a jerbless rising 3L to be a TA?

There is value if the professor can hook you up with a jerb. If you are doing it because you are "fascinated and intrigued by the law" and want to help students, don't do it.


This.

From my experience twice TA-ing, professors REALLY appreciate the TA's who care and do a good job. I got a very good reference from a prof whose class I TA'd (and did well in another of hers), and I think their LORs can really speak to your personality as someone employers would want to work with, which is huge.

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20160810
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby 20160810 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi. I'm the guy who talked about getting the 35k/yr offer from a solo bankruptcy guy. The negatives were the low pay, would have to drive alot, work 50-70 hr per week, and requiring a 2-year commitment. I just received a call from his secretary and he is officially offering me the job on Sunday. I spoke with one of my professors about it, and she thinks that it's a great opportunity to get experience. I spoke with my gf (and her business-savvy parents) and they think I should hold out for something better when bar results come out. I don't know what to do. Thoughts?

The pay is total shit but debtor side bk is one of the easiest things to go solo in and after two years you really will have the tools to do so. If you don't have any other options I'd seriously consider.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:51 pm

a male human wrote:I would take it ONLY IF it's your area of interest + you wouldn't mind working for free at the same job for the experience. Rather than get 35k for a 50-70-hour job, can you make it no pay at 30-40 hours? With the extra time you can make cash on the side and do other personal things.


Umm....what? You would rather take 0K and work 40 hours + part time work than take 35K and work 70 hours in the same job? Do you realize the chances of you getting a part time job for 30 hours a week that pays you 35K per year is close to zero, and if you did you would still end up breaking even with what is already proposed to him...Not sure what you were thinking here.




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