The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:16 pm

TTH wrote:Anyone else planning to drop some clerkship apps to newly-elected state judges?

I've heard state trial clerkships in my home state are one step above worthless, so no.

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20160810
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby 20160810 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:22 pm

rad lulz wrote:
TTH wrote:Anyone else planning to drop some clerkship apps to newly-elected state judges?

I've heard state trial clerkships in my home state are one step above worthless, so no.

Depends what you're trying to get out of it. Would be a good learning experience, but probably not a terribly compelling resume line.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:40 pm

SBL wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
TTH wrote:Anyone else planning to drop some clerkship apps to newly-elected state judges?

I've heard state trial clerkships in my home state are one step above worthless, so no.

Depends what you're trying to get out of it. Would be a good learning experience, but probably not a terribly compelling resume line.

A couple attys I talked to said they weren't even good for that. Apparently the system at the state level just isn't set up to handle it very well.

Sm Firm Hiring P
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Sm Firm Hiring P » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:07 pm

Unfortunately, you are correct. It does give you some exposure to see how state court works and the good and bad of attorney practice but not a lot of hands on experience or direction and certainly, except in unusually circumstances, are you going to learn good drafting. We don't put much stock in it for what it is worth.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:33 pm

We don't even have trial clerks here. COA and up only.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:36 pm

it's better than unemployment

Kobe824
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Kobe824 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:22 pm

kalvano wrote:We don't even have trial clerks here. COA and up only.


Speaking of which -- I assume Texas hiring is done for state clerkships?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sadsituationJD » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:17 pm

I think it's probably better to work retail than to work in shitlaw. Better pay, better hours, and more upward potential.



Honestly, at this point might as well drop out instead of wasting $$$$ to finish out the spring semester of 3 L. Even if you wanted some 30 K a year shitlaw job, you probably won't get one. And all the doc review/temp work has been outsourced to India or replaced by software. There are a few jobs left but most pay under $20 an hour and you have to move to Charlotte or Wheeling, WV or some other toilet and they make you work in like unheated warehouses and shit.

Bottom line is that a JD is a uniquely worthless credential. But one thing you kids can't say is that you weren't warned.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:48 pm

sadsituationJD wrote:
I think it's probably better to work retail than to work in shitlaw. Better pay, better hours, and more upward potential.



Honestly, at this point might as well drop out instead of wasting $$$$ to finish out the spring semester of 3 L. Even if you wanted some 30 K a year shitlaw job, you probably won't get one. And all the doc review/temp work has been outsourced to India or replaced by software. There are a few jobs left but most pay under $20 an hour and you have to move to Charlotte or Wheeling, WV or some other toilet and they make you work in like unheated warehouses and shit.

Bottom line is that a JD is a uniquely worthless credential. But one thing you kids can't say is that you weren't warned.

I landed biglawlz 2L summer but would have seriously considered dropping out at if I hadn't. After I found out I got no-offered it was after the tuition deadline for first semester. It isn't quite a sunk cost because I've had a couple interviews for jobs that pay more than what I could snag w my liberal arts BA. I think the best course of action for me is to finish this out.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:52 pm

Kobe824 wrote:
kalvano wrote:We don't even have trial clerks here. COA and up only.


Speaking of which -- I assume Texas hiring is done for state clerkships?



I have no idea, I didn't really apply. I know there is one judge on the Dallas appeals court who hasn't hired yet, but he only hires from SMU.

Most other judges at the appeals level don't take clerks. Only the Houston courts do, and I think they are done.

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los blancos
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby los blancos » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:19 am

Sm Firm Hiring P wrote:Unfortunately, you are correct. It does give you some exposure to see how state court works and the good and bad of attorney practice but not a lot of hands on experience or direction and certainly, except in unusually circumstances, are you going to learn good drafting. We don't put much stock in it for what it is worth.


Probably depends on the state and the court. N.C. has a special business litigation trial court that's actually supposed to be good.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:13 pm

Does it seem like your classmates with jerbs avoid talking about them when you are around? :cry:

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does it seem like your classmates with jerbs avoid talking about them when you are around? :cry:

I actively avoid most people who have jobs. I'm tired of hearing people bitch about how little money they're making when they won the lottery and got hired w bigfed in DC or how they don't like the location of their personal office space next to weird former-SA XYZ at biglaw firm ABC (true stories).

People who have jobs have radically different concerns than those of us who don't.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does it seem like your classmates with jerbs avoid talking about them when you are around? :cry:

I actively avoid most people who have jobs. I'm tired of hearing people bitch about how little money they're making when they won the lottery and got hired w bigfed in DC or how they don't like the location of their personal office space next to weird former-SA XYZ at biglaw firm ABC (true stories).

People who have jobs have radically different concerns than those of us who don't.
.

Found that to be true. The LRers usually stick together and talk about their jobs. The others not so much likely because they don't want to know.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:08 pm

I'm dumb. Law school is dumb. I can't pay attention in class.

2 probably really dumb questions - please don't blow me out of the water here - grasping at straws:

1. Joint JD/MBA? Had a couple friends begin the program? Worth it? I feel like no - I used to be an English teacher, I have no business experience.
2. Is there any real discussion anywhere on how to obtain a non-legal job with a JD? I know, I know, the general answer is no. However, people have to be working somewhere. Public policy jobs? Non-profit advocacy work?

I'm getting married this summer and I just feel like a failure. I just want to start my life, but I don't feel like its ever going to happen. (FYI: T2, between top 1/3 and 1/4)

BTW - if you tell me I should have stayed teaching I will hunt you down. Same goes for any suggestion of me going back to teaching.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:21 pm

Kobe_Teeth wrote:1. Joint JD/MBA? Had a couple friends begin the program? Worth it? I feel like no - I used to be an English teacher, I have no business experience.

From your TT? No.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:53 pm

Kobe_Teeth wrote:I'm dumb. Law school is dumb. I can't pay attention in class.

2 probably really dumb questions - please don't blow me out of the water here - grasping at straws



i'm at CCN and asking myself all these questions. congrats on getting married, that's a big positive and don't let all this other law school/employment crap make you feel like you're failing at life.

maybe try and use your law degree to get into some kind of education policy/administration type work? could you get a job working for a city or county school district managing their various schools/programs/etc.? work for the department of education, on a state or federal level?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:22 am

Anonymous User wrote: i'm at CCN and asking myself all these questions.


Me too. Aren't we cool. So much for taking on more debt because it was going to help me get a job. #poorlifechoices

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:I'm dumb. Law school is dumb. I can't pay attention in class.

2 probably really dumb questions - please don't blow me out of the water here - grasping at straws



i'm at CCN and asking myself all these questions. congrats on getting married, that's a big positive and don't let all this other law school/employment crap make you feel like you're failing at life.

maybe try and use your law degree to get into some kind of education policy/administration type work? could you get a job working for a city or county school district managing their various schools/programs/etc.? work for the department of education, on a state or federal level?


Thanks for reply - I was in full on panic mode today sitting in class, so i appreciate the encouraging words. I had definitely thought about that - taking Ed. Law and Policy next semester. I think thats a good idea.

I think we will all find employment and will all find that our law degrees were useful (albeit entirely not cost effective) but it'll just be a slog towards finding that first job. sleep will be lost. bottles of whiskey will be murdered. but we will be ok. right? right??? RIGHT???!!!?!?!?!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Me too. Aren't we cool. So much for taking on more debt because it was going to help me get a job. #poorlifechoices


so poor. i guess if i had gone to a lower ranked school i would always wonder if things would have turned out better at CCN. i have like $80k in loans now though, and at duke or texas it would be $0. :( i wish i could call myself in 2009 and have a chat.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:17 am

Keep the faith bro. Many do not have jobs yet and there should be new activity in January or February.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:35 am

What helped me this year in finally landing a job (Non-Law) was realizing that law school adds absolutely no value to what you can do for other people (i.e. working for them). The only thing it does add value to is your ability to sell yourself, and that is only if you are able to say you went to a T-10 or T-14 or w.e. Most of you I assume are in your mid to early 20's, you are still really young and may have skills that you didn't even discover because you never worked on them. Try taking MBA finance courses, strategy courses, marketing courses, see if something clicks with you there. Reach out to alumni that work in other areas, not just law. I was really lucky in getting my job and I had to work for months before getting an offer, but it was a blessing in disguise because biglaw sucks and what I am doing, I am much better at and enjoy much more than anything i've done that was law related.

I think from here on out, everything 3L's do should be about adding value. Make yourself into something and then go for it. Law is a dying profession and honestly, I find that law firms on the whole are filled with shitty people that don't really value hard work or improvement. As someone that raised their GPA to median from bottom 10% at a T-14, while working in and commuting to a different city for a "very prestigious" federal agency, and getting high level recommenders to literally call the hiring partners of firms to say that I am a sure thing, only to get exactly 0 firm offers, I think the law can suck it. Time to use that chip on your shoulder.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gwuorbust » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What helped me this year in finally landing a job (Non-Law) was realizing that law school adds absolutely no value to what you can do for other people (i.e. working for them). The only thing it does add value to is your ability to sell yourself, and that is only if you are able to say you went to a T-10 or T-14 or w.e. Most of you I assume are in your mid to early 20's, you are still really young and may have skills that you didn't even discover because you never worked on them. Try taking MBA finance courses, strategy courses, marketing courses, see if something clicks with you there. Reach out to alumni that work in other areas, not just law. I was really lucky in getting my job and I had to work for months before getting an offer, but it was a blessing in disguise because biglaw sucks and what I am doing, I am much better at and enjoy much more than anything i've done that was law related.

I think from here on out, everything 3L's do should be about adding value. Make yourself into something and then go for it. Law is a dying profession and honestly, I find that law firms on the whole are filled with shitty people that don't really value hard work or improvement. As someone that raised their GPA to median from bottom 10% at a T-14, while working in and commuting to a different city for a "very prestigious" federal agency, and getting high level recommenders to literally call the hiring partners of firms to say that I am a sure thing, only to get exactly 0 firm offers, I think the law can suck it. Time to use that chip on your shoulder.


yawn..

this sort of doomsday, "woe is me" mentality is why law didn't work out for you.

There is more than enough legal need out there. The key is to figure out what need you can fill. If you can't figure that out, well then too bad for you. But I have no sympathy.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:29 pm

gwuorbust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What helped me this year in finally landing a job (Non-Law) was realizing that law school adds absolutely no value to what you can do for other people (i.e. working for them). The only thing it does add value to is your ability to sell yourself, and that is only if you are able to say you went to a T-10 or T-14 or w.e. Most of you I assume are in your mid to early 20's, you are still really young and may have skills that you didn't even discover because you never worked on them. Try taking MBA finance courses, strategy courses, marketing courses, see if something clicks with you there. Reach out to alumni that work in other areas, not just law. I was really lucky in getting my job and I had to work for months before getting an offer, but it was a blessing in disguise because biglaw sucks and what I am doing, I am much better at and enjoy much more than anything i've done that was law related.

I think from here on out, everything 3L's do should be about adding value. Make yourself into something and then go for it. Law is a dying profession and honestly, I find that law firms on the whole are filled with shitty people that don't really value hard work or improvement. As someone that raised their GPA to median from bottom 10% at a T-14, while working in and commuting to a different city for a "very prestigious" federal agency, and getting high level recommenders to literally call the hiring partners of firms to say that I am a sure thing, only to get exactly 0 firm offers, I think the law can suck it. Time to use that chip on your shoulder.


yawn..

this sort of doomsday, "woe is me" mentality is why law didn't work out for you.

There is more than enough legal need out there. The key is to figure out what need you can fill. If you can't figure that out, well then too bad for you. But I have no sympathy.



Golf clap. . . . Best bravo I can give for that statement. There are far more law school graduates than decent legal jobs. That is the sad reality. While you need to hustle as you not so politely stated, for those below the top 1/3 or not from a T14, it is a very tough go - pure and simple. Not everyone has connections and certainly there is an element of luck and timing involved. So I cannot be so harsh.

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beach_terror
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby beach_terror » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:43 pm

Checking in. Top 15%, published secondary, philly area t2. Halp?




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