The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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iceman219
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby iceman219 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:57 am

TTH wrote:#ValeStories

So a few days ago, I mentioned that the firm that no-offered me, then allowed me to clerk for a year hourly, then laid me off after the bar had just lost an associate. Folks encouraged me to reach out and it made sense, so I e-mailed the managing partner last Friday. I got radio silence.
This morning, the managing partner endorsed me on LinkedIn for "Legal Writing."


To me, that just means the managing partner was scoping you out on LinkedIn. I would give them a call ASAP... don't read between the lines anymore until you have some more concrete info.

Void wrote:At my school it is generally considered douchey to bring up one's gainful employment (or grades, for that matter) unless directly asked about it. Kind of like how old money rich folk think that discussing finances is rude, and when pressed, refer to themselves as "comfortable," or "upper middle class."


Same.

And if you peruse this thread more, you'll see that the percent of "offers" your peers at law school will actually have is probably a lot lower than what you'd expect. Go look up your school's NALP numbers and see the job offer % info. I think something like 40% of the employed from my school's prior class had jobs pre-Bar exam. So not heavy numbers by any imagination. Everyone in school generally has a feel that the job hunt is one part magic, one part daddy's Rolodex.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:33 am

Void wrote:At my school it is generally considered douchey to bring up one's gainful employment (or grades, for that matter) unless directly asked about it. Kind of like how old money rich folk think that discussing finances is rude, and when pressed, refer to themselves as "comfortable," or "upper middle class."


Void wrote:Same.

And if you peruse this thread more, you'll see that the percent of "offers" your peers at law school will actually have is probably a lot lower than what you'd expect. Go look up your school's NALP numbers and see the job offer % info. I think something like 40% of the employed from my school's prior class had jobs pre-Bar exam. So not heavy numbers by any imagination. Everyone in school generally has a feel that the job hunt is one part magic, one part daddy's Rolodex.


I'm from a CCN, and it was and has been a major contributing factor in my depression and suicidality. A lot of people I no longer talk to. Part of this is a combination of factors, including questionable choices in friends. But there was a clear divide btn those w/ jobs, particularly in big law, and those w/out. A low point was when I was studying for the bar (i graduated slightly later than my original class), and one of my "friends" in gchat decided to mention how upsetting it was that so much of his paycheck went to service his loans, knowing full well I was searching for work and would be lucky to break 30k for a first job. The depression didn't help w/ all this, but law school was a toxic environment on top of the job search. Only thing I can recommend is to go out of your way to make connections outside of law school, or at least do stuff outside law school, like through meetup or sports. I wish I had done that from day one, but lesson learned. Good luck.

Cyne
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Cyne » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Void wrote:At my school it is generally considered douchey to bring up one's gainful employment (or grades, for that matter) unless directly asked about it. Kind of like how old money rich folk think that discussing finances is rude, and when pressed, refer to themselves as "comfortable," or "upper middle class."


Void wrote:Same.

And if you peruse this thread more, you'll see that the percent of "offers" your peers at law school will actually have is probably a lot lower than what you'd expect. Go look up your school's NALP numbers and see the job offer % info. I think something like 40% of the employed from my school's prior class had jobs pre-Bar exam. So not heavy numbers by any imagination. Everyone in school generally has a feel that the job hunt is one part magic, one part daddy's Rolodex.


I'm from a CCN, and it was and has been a major contributing factor in my depression and suicidality. A lot of people I no longer talk to. Part of this is a combination of factors, including questionable choices in friends. But there was a clear divide btn those w/ jobs, particularly in big law, and those w/out. A low point was when I was studying for the bar (i graduated slightly later than my original class), and one of my "friends" in gchat decided to mention how upsetting it was that so much of his paycheck went to service his loans, knowing full well I was searching for work and would be lucky to break 30k for a first job. The depression didn't help w/ all this, but law school was a toxic environment on top of the job search. Only thing I can recommend is to go out of your way to make connections outside of law school, or at least do stuff outside law school, like through meetup or sports. I wish I had done that from day one, but lesson learned. Good luck.


Dude I'm so sorry. That guy seems like a major dick.

Honestly sometimes this thread gets me through the day. Some of my buddies are non-law types, and I get the good ole refrain: "lol wut uz a lawyer go get a jerb." I don't even engage in that conversation anymore, I just direct them to LST, Campos' blog, and JDU.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:45 am

So.... I had an OCI interview with a firm I really liked yesterday. My interview time was late in the day, and the partner had to leave right before my time slot for another engagement. So I interviewed with a c/o 2012 grad from my school who I know tangentially who has been with the firm ~1 year. It was a good interview, and I could tell he thought I was a good fit... But he's only been there a year.

Should I email the partner that was supposed to be in that time slot and ask if he has a little bit of time to speak with me on the phone or something?

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TTH
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:59 am

TTH wrote:#ValeStories

So a few days ago, I mentioned that the firm that no-offered me, then allowed me to clerk for a year hourly, then laid me off after the bar had just lost an associate. Folks encouraged me to reach out and it made sense, so I e-mailed the managing partner last Friday. I got radio silence.

This morning, the managing partner endorsed me on LinkedIn for "Legal Writing."

Fuckin' Vale. :lol:


New update. The state just approved my unemployment claim that I filed after the firm laid me off. YEEEEEEAAAAAHHHHH!

I'mma go drink a forty on my front porch to celebrate.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:21 am

hiima3L wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:The fact that this thread reached 98 pages should give those 0L's a dose of reality.


Have you talked to any current 0Ls or those who just started? It is mind-boggling. The last few classes arguably did not have enough information to make informed decisions, but nowadays, there is no excuse. Yet TTTs with <50% employment rates are still filling up their classes with ease. It is unfathomable to me, really.


I coached the undergrad mock trial team all through law school and many of those kids were planning on law school. While 1 of them was really smart about it and took a fulride at a regional school over better schools, some others were flat out delusional. One of my kids went to a T4 in a state 2000 miles away at sticker cause she thought it "would be fun to live there".

Cyne
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Cyne » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:22 am

Nice!!!

God bless the small (large? it is a 40) things in life :-).

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JenDarby
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:31 am

I think people should definitely read this, but I also think 0Ls need to know that it's not ALL doom and gloom.

While I am still searching for a post grad job, I'm not despondent about it and I had my nearly ideal job both 1L and 2L summers. I received my 1L summer job late in the game in April, and ended up with a paid firm job doing litigation work (which made me realize I never want to do litigation). I am now at an investment bank, a position I also recieved late in the game in May. I will be staying here during 3L, and I am very happy and make decent money. I am open about opportunities and worked hard to find my positions (but no harder than I would have had to work of I didn't attend law school). I personally am eligible for paye, so that helps, and my debt is right around hitting triple digits, so it could be far worse.

People certainly need to be realistic, but this includes looking at those with and without jobs.

lukertin
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lukertin » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:36 am

Your debt is hitting triple digits? Must be hard, worrying about a couple hundred of student loan debt eh?

user was outed for anon abuse

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JenDarby
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:Your debt is hitting triple digits? Must be hard, worrying about a couple hundred of student loan debt eh?

No, not really, it's just about 100k. I paid off UG in 2.5 years working full time (30k paid off on a pretty low salary). This was with no special loan assistance.

Or are you saying it must be hard for those with 250k? If so, yes that sounds substantially more, and I acknowledged it could be worse. Your use of anon is pretty ridiculous.
Last edited by JenDarby on Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Danger Zone
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Danger Zone » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:41 am

JenDarby wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Your debt is hitting triple digits? Must be hard, worrying about a couple hundred of student loan debt eh?

No, not really, it's just about 100k. I paid off UG in 2.5 years working full time (30k paid off on a pretty low salary). This was with no special loan assistance.

He means because triple digits is only hundreds of dollars, even though it was obvious that you meant hundreds of thousands. Sweet use of anon.

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JenDarby
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:42 am

Danger Zone wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Your debt is hitting triple digits? Must be hard, worrying about a couple hundred of student loan debt eh?

No, not really, it's just about 100k. I paid off UG in 2.5 years working full time (30k paid off on a pretty low salary). This was with no special loan assistance.

He means because triple digits is only hundreds of dollars, even though it was obvious that you meant hundreds of thousands. Sweet use of anon.

:lol: scooped me by a hair on the anon comment. Ah yes, I meant in the thousands field, my bad for not being more clear. I even read "thousands" into his comment.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:46 am

JenDarby wrote:
Danger Zone wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Your debt is hitting triple digits? Must be hard, worrying about a couple hundred of student loan debt eh?

No, not really, it's just about 100k. I paid off UG in 2.5 years working full time (30k paid off on a pretty low salary). This was with no special loan assistance.

He means because triple digits is only hundreds of dollars, even though it was obvious that you meant hundreds of thousands. Sweet use of anon.

:lol: scooped me by a hair on the anon comment. Ah yes, I meant in the thousands field, my bad for not being more clear. I even read "thousands" into his comment.


Everyone knows what you meant. Stop being a dick, lukertin. No one thinks you are funny.

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jessuf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Yo everybody, a lot of the judges in the DC Superior Court are accepting clerkship applications right now. Just thought I'd throw it out there. They aren't being clear about the compensation though :/.

It's like $56k or something. It says in the Vermont Guide.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:53 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
hiima3L wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:The fact that this thread reached 98 pages should give those 0L's a dose of reality.


Have you talked to any current 0Ls or those who just started? It is mind-boggling. The last few classes arguably did not have enough information to make informed decisions, but nowadays, there is no excuse. Yet TTTs with <50% employment rates are still filling up their classes with ease. It is unfathomable to me, really.


I coached the undergrad mock trial team all through law school and many of those kids were planning on law school. While 1 of them was really smart about it and took a fulride at a regional school over better schools, some others were flat out delusional. One of my kids went to a T4 in a state 2000 miles away at sticker cause she thought it "would be fun to live there".


I saw a friend from college a few months back and he told me he wanted to go to law school because he thought it would allow him to be gainfully employed. I told him that it's a shitty decision and he shouldn't do it and all the rest of the stuff we know. I also told him that people at my T14 graduate unemployed and at any other school it's an even larger crapshoot. He didn't listen to me, took an LSAT class and scored in the low 150s on the February LSAT. Despite all that he's now enrolled at sticker at a local T2. I wish him well but some people won't wake up.

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deadpanic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby deadpanic » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:58 pm

Thoughts on LinkedIn for jobs/networking?

Seems like a waste of time from what I gather.

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TTH
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:00 pm

deadpanic wrote:Thoughts on LinkedIn for jobs/networking?

Seems like a waste of time from what I gather.


Best use of it I've found so far is if I'm applying at a firm, I can use it to see if there's anyone I know with connections in that firm that could reach out on my behalf. Has yet to be successful in landing anything, so probably useless. But it's something.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:11 pm

Do firm HR groups do the initial screenings? They don't pass along applications to the attorneys right? I just got dinged at a firm I thought was going to be a good fit based on the people I talked to at the firm. I waited days for my official transcript (requested by HR) to arrive and spent a lot of time to make sure the application was tweaked to perfection before sending it to my HR contact. I think if I email the managing partner, he might understand that they don't need all these strict requirements imposed by HR because I have a lot of great experiences that fit the firm's practice.

Maybe I'm mad because I spent $15 for a transcript just to get a rejection the next day.

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JenDarby
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:25 pm

Having to obtain official transcripts is the worst. Employers should only require them upon extending offers as a condition of employment.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:34 pm

JenDarby wrote:Having to obtain official transcripts is the worst. Employers should only require them upon extending offers as a condition of employment.

Image
a male human likes this.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:55 pm

Jessuf wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Yo everybody, a lot of the judges in the DC Superior Court are accepting clerkship applications right now. Just thought I'd throw it out there. They aren't being clear about the compensation though :/.

It's like $56k or something. It says in the Vermont Guide.


Anyone have a list? There's 61 of them :D

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20160810
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby 20160810 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:33 pm

deadpanic wrote:Thoughts on LinkedIn for jobs/networking?

Seems like a waste of time from what I gather.

I am not on there because it seems dumb, but I know a couple dudes who got sweet jobs that way.

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JenDarby
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:37 pm

SBL wrote:
deadpanic wrote:Thoughts on LinkedIn for jobs/networking?

Seems like a waste of time from what I gather.

I am not on there because it seems dumb, but I know a couple dudes who got sweet jobs that way.

I've had employers look at my linked prior to offering me an interview and/or position (and once prior to never responding at all to my résumé - bitch). It seems like a good idea to have one, but I don't do anything beyond update with new positions.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:49 pm

Anonymous person from firm that no offered me just looked up my linkedin profile. Gah!

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JenDarby
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:54 pm

I hadn't looked at mine in a while, but in the last few days someone in one of the courts I applied to (not the one I got an interview at) looked at mine. I feel like of you bother to look at my linked, you're interested. If you then don't offer me an interview, you're sexist or clearly threatened (joke).




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