The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:06 pm

a male human wrote:I had a great interview--or so they said--at a small firm, but I got an immediate rejection the next business day. I sent the head partner a nice email asking for feedback, but he never responded. Is it appropriate to give him a call to follow up, or would it put too much pressure on him to remember and give me his reasons on the spot? Kinda want some closure.


You have closure, a rejection letter. I wouldn't call to follow-up if he didn't respond.

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deadpanic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby deadpanic » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:15 pm

kalvano wrote:
a male human wrote:I had a great interview--or so they said--at a small firm, but I got an immediate rejection the next business day. I sent the head partner a nice email asking for feedback, but he never responded. Is it appropriate to give him a call to follow up, or would it put too much pressure on him to remember and give me his reasons on the spot? Kinda want some closure.


You have closure, a rejection letter. I wouldn't call to follow-up if he didn't respond.


I agree. No need to follow up anymore than what you have already done.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:16 pm

The fact that this thread reached 98 pages should give those 0L's a dose of reality.

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:28 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:The fact that this thread reached 98 pages should give those 0L's a dose of reality.


Considering the Oct 2013 LSAT thread is 130 pages, I'm fairly certain that many 0Ls view us the same way many of us viewed JDUers back in 2010: damn losers. Dat Special Snowflake.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:37 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:The fact that this thread reached 98 pages should give those 0L's a dose of reality.


Considering the Oct 2013 LSAT thread is 130 pages, I'm fairly certain that many 0Ls view us the same way many of us viewed JDUers back in 2010: damn losers. Dat Special Snowflake.


I totally had special snowflake syndrome in terms of what types of grades I could achieve. The funny thing is I actually ended up with the same grades I predicted and am STILL in the Vale. Insult to injury.

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JCougar
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JCougar » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:11 am

What are people's thoughts on sending a follow-up e-mail telling a firm that they are your top choice? I had an interview last week, and was the first person they called in for an interview (only a few hours after applying). They said it may take a month to interview everyone. I really liked the people at this firm, though, and their work is in a niche area that has a lot of promise.

They seemed to think I had a lot more options than I do. They were like "we won't be done for a month, but I'm sure you've got a bunch more interview/offers to think over yourself." They also seemed surprised that my government internship was unpaid. I don't think they realize how bad my other options are. So I don't want to blow my cover by sounding desperate. But it's also in a relatively smaller market, and I have "flight risk" written all over my resume (worked in multiple bigger cities prior) and bar application (i.e. I took the bar in a different state).

NYstate
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:22 am

BarbellDreams wrote:The fact that this thread reached 98 pages should give those 0L's a dose of reality.

I feel like I shouldn't help these 0Ls anymore. Unless by linking to this thread frequently. Somehow they really feel that their future is simply a combination of grades plus school. And they won't get it. Or that the reason apps are dropping and schools are easier to get into is because employment prospects are horrible. I never understood the human cost of the bimodal salary before. It is jarring to see solid people from great schools with good grades/ experience get so screwed by the economy. Yet they still blame themselves. And the Ols roll in every year.

Still, I think there are ways to find jobs as evidenced by this thread. I think a huge part of the job search is staying mentally strong. And there have to be avenues for finding work. I'm working through the thread to find stuff people did. But it takes a while. I think if we could come up with a solid guide for 3 L job hunting- like the thread for mass mailing - it would be helpful.

Hope this makes sense.not sober entirely. I may clean it up in the morning.

But also I honestly care about all you Internet strangers. You all deserve better.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:25 am

JCougar wrote:What are people's thoughts on sending a follow-up e-mail telling a firm that they are your top choice? I had an interview last week, and was the first person they called in for an interview (only a few hours after applying). They said it may take a month to interview everyone. I really liked the people at this firm, though, and their work is in a niche area that has a lot of promise.

They seemed to think I had a lot more options than I do. They were like "we won't be done for a month, but I'm sure you've got a bunch more interview/offers to think over yourself." They also seemed surprised that my government internship was unpaid. I don't think they realize how bad my other options are. So I don't want to blow my cover by sounding desperate. But it's also in a relatively smaller market, and I have "flight risk" written all over my resume (worked in multiple bigger cities prior) and bar application (i.e. I took the bar in a different state).


A huge part of this problem is the reality disconnect. They don't understand the market and think you are overqualified. I have to think of the best way to convey reality to them. Will try to get back. Maybe others have better ideas.

I would contact them and say you are excited by the work and you believe you are a good fit and have a lot to offer. It doesn't hurt to say that the work environment matters to you and that you enjoyed meeting them and would love to work with them.

But say it better. You can do that and sound enthusiastic without sounding desperate.

Void
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:30 am

NYstate wrote:
JCougar wrote:What are people's thoughts on sending a follow-up e-mail telling a firm that they are your top choice? I had an interview last week, and was the first person they called in for an interview (only a few hours after applying). They said it may take a month to interview everyone. I really liked the people at this firm, though, and their work is in a niche area that has a lot of promise.

They seemed to think I had a lot more options than I do. They were like "we won't be done for a month, but I'm sure you've got a bunch more interview/offers to think over yourself." They also seemed surprised that my government internship was unpaid. I don't think they realize how bad my other options are. So I don't want to blow my cover by sounding desperate. But it's also in a relatively smaller market, and I have "flight risk" written all over my resume (worked in multiple bigger cities prior) and bar application (i.e. I took the bar in a different state).


A huge part of this problem is the reality disconnect. They don't understand the market and think you are overqualified. I have to think of the best way to convey reality to them. Will try to get back. Maybe others have better ideas.


Yeah, man. The reality disconnect.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:32 am

NYstate wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:The fact that this thread reached 98 pages should give those 0L's a dose of reality.

I feel like I shouldn't help these 0Ls anymore. Unless by linking to this thread frequently. Somehow they really feel that their future is simply a combination of grades plus school. And they won't get it. Or that the reason apps are dropping and schools are easier to get into is because employment prospects are horrible. I never understood the human cost of the bimodal salary before. It is jarring to see solid people from great schools with good grades/ experience get so screwed by the economy. Yet they still blame themselves. And the Ols roll in every year.

Still, I think there are ways to find jobs as evidenced by this thread. I think a huge part of the job search is staying mentally strong. And there have to be avenues for finding work. I'm working through the thread to find stuff people did. But it takes a while. I think if we could come up with a solid guide for 3 L job hunting- like the thread for mass mailing - it would be helpful.

Hope this makes sense.not sober entirely. I may clean it up in the morning.

But also I honestly care about all you Internet strangers. You all deserve better.

A guide would be helpful but it probably wouldn't look like a guide so much. Probably more like a collection of experiences. People get jobs in the weirdest ways post grad.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Stanford4Me » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:40 am

JCougar wrote:What are people's thoughts on sending a follow-up e-mail telling a firm that they are your top choice? I had an interview last week, and was the first person they called in for an interview (only a few hours after applying). They said it may take a month to interview everyone. I really liked the people at this firm, though, and their work is in a niche area that has a lot of promise.

They seemed to think I had a lot more options than I do. They were like "we won't be done for a month, but I'm sure you've got a bunch more interview/offers to think over yourself." They also seemed surprised that my government internship was unpaid. I don't think they realize how bad my other options are. So I don't want to blow my cover by sounding desperate. But it's also in a relatively smaller market, and I have "flight risk" written all over my resume (worked in multiple bigger cities prior) and bar application (i.e. I took the bar in a different state).


This is how it was when I interviewed at the place I'm now working. They didn't tell me it would take a month, but throughout the course of my interviews they kept talking about how I probably have a lot of options and kept wanting assurance that I wouldn't leave them for a big firm, given that a significant number of people from my school go to big firms. I didn't want to come off as desperate, but I did follow up letting them know how much I enjoyed meeting with them and to re-affirm my excitement about the prospect of working with them.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:46 am

I love the post-grad opportunities on my Symplicity. I either need to want to move to south Texas (even though I went to school in Dallas), speak and write fluent Spanish (understandable for immigration law but for family law?), or be an autistic engineering major who is fluent in both written and verbal Chinese (note to firm's owner: it's not Chinese, it's Mandarin).

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:51 am

kalvano wrote:I love the post-grad opportunities on my Symplicity. I either need to want to move to south Texas (even though I went to school in Dallas), speak and write fluent Spanish (understandable for immigration law but for family law?), or be an autistic engineering major who is fluent in both written and verbal Chinese (note to firm's owner: it's not Chinese, it's Mandarin).



You got the BYU pw, brah? Granted, a bunch of those jerbs will be re-poasts

hiima3L
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hiima3L » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:51 am

BarbellDreams wrote:The fact that this thread reached 98 pages should give those 0L's a dose of reality.


Have you talked to any current 0Ls or those who just started? It is mind-boggling. The last few classes arguably did not have enough information to make informed decisions, but nowadays, there is no excuse. Yet TTTs with <50% employment rates are still filling up their classes with ease. It is unfathomable to me, really.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:58 am

Bikeflip wrote:
kalvano wrote:I love the post-grad opportunities on my Symplicity. I either need to want to move to south Texas (even though I went to school in Dallas), speak and write fluent Spanish (understandable for immigration law but for family law?), or be an autistic engineering major who is fluent in both written and verbal Chinese (note to firm's owner: it's not Chinese, it's Mandarin).



You got the BYU pw, brah? Granted, a bunch of those jerbs will be re-poasts



Yeah, they send it out to us. But with a kid almost here, not really looking to move unless it's for some decent money. And definitely not to Houston.

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:59 am

hiima3L wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:The fact that this thread reached 98 pages should give those 0L's a dose of reality.


Have you talked to any current 0Ls or those who just started? It is mind-boggling. The last few classes arguably did not have enough information to make informed decisions, but nowadays, there is no excuse. Yet TTTs with <50% employment rates are still filling up their classes with ease. It is unfathomable to me, really.



I did it last week at a networking event, and a bunch of incoming 0Ls at the local TT showed up. I bit my tongue, and gave them general advice about outlining and hornbooks, wished them well. It seems that by August, it's too late to tell a 0L how the game is played.

Over New Years, I was talking to some 0Ls at a party, and I just told them that the market was bad and that they should check out lawschoolnumbers to get a better picture. Then I did shots with them.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:08 am

Yo everybody, a lot of the judges in the DC Superior Court are accepting clerkship applications right now. Just thought I'd throw it out there. They aren't being clear about the compensation though :/.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:27 am

kalvano wrote:I love the post-grad opportunities on my Symplicity. I either need to want to move to south Texas (even though I went to school in Dallas), speak and write fluent Spanish (understandable for immigration law but for family law?), or be an autistic engineering major who is fluent in both written and verbal Chinese (note to firm's owner: it's not Chinese, it's Mandarin).

Autistic?

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:50 am

a male human wrote:
kalvano wrote:I love the post-grad opportunities on my Symplicity. I either need to want to move to south Texas (even though I went to school in Dallas), speak and write fluent Spanish (understandable for immigration law but for family law?), or be an autistic engineering major who is fluent in both written and verbal Chinese (note to firm's owner: it's not Chinese, it's Mandarin).

Autistic?


Straight from the posting:

Subject to those critical requirements, differences, including Autism-spectrum disorders, are celebrated.

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TTH
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:09 am

#ValeStories

So a few days ago, I mentioned that the firm that no-offered me, then allowed me to clerk for a year hourly, then laid me off after the bar had just lost an associate. Folks encouraged me to reach out and it made sense, so I e-mailed the managing partner last Friday. I got radio silence.

This morning, the managing partner endorsed me on LinkedIn for "Legal Writing."

Fuckin' Vale. :lol:

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:41 am

TTH wrote:#ValeStories

So a few days ago, I mentioned that the firm that no-offered me, then allowed me to clerk for a year hourly, then laid me off after the bar had just lost an associate. Folks encouraged me to reach out and it made sense, so I e-mailed the managing partner last Friday. I got radio silence.

This morning, the managing partner endorsed me on LinkedIn for "Legal Writing."

Fuckin' Vale. :lol:



Call the partner and talk to him on the phone. You honestly don't know. I mean, okay you kind of do, but I've seen hugely false assumptions made before. You owe it to yourself to at least call him.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:45 am

I'm the guy who just replied to TTH. Also a rising 3L. Tangential Vale question: how are you guys expecting to handle the upcoming social divide of the Employed and Probably Unemployed (because nobody will confirm it) at school this year? My friends are cool, I'm not worried about them being dicks about my jerblessness, but I know everyone else is going to be asking me, and people are going to be boasting about their summer associate experiences and offers in the cafeteria and at the bars....just ugh. I know I shouldn't feel embarrassed about this stupid shit but I just think this is going to affect my social relationships in the upcoming year.

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TTH
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm the guy who just replied to TTH. Also a rising 3L. Tangential Vale question: how are you guys expecting to handle the upcoming social divide of the Employed and Probably Unemployed (because nobody will confirm it) at school this year? My friends are cool, I'm not worried about them being dicks about my jerblessness, but I know everyone else is going to be asking me, and people are going to be boasting about their summer associate experiences and offers in the cafeteria and at the bars....just ugh. I know I shouldn't feel embarrassed about this stupid shit but I just think this is going to affect my social relationships in the upcoming year.


I guess it depends on your school and the circumstances of your jerblessness, but at my school, it wasn't really a thing. I was ITE-no offered, and I just was up front about it when asked. I was on LR, so a lot of the people I talk to on the reg had jobs. For the most part, folks acted normally.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:24 am

TTH wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm the guy who just replied to TTH. Also a rising 3L. Tangential Vale question: how are you guys expecting to handle the upcoming social divide of the Employed and Probably Unemployed (because nobody will confirm it) at school this year? My friends are cool, I'm not worried about them being dicks about my jerblessness, but I know everyone else is going to be asking me, and people are going to be boasting about their summer associate experiences and offers in the cafeteria and at the bars....just ugh. I know I shouldn't feel embarrassed about this stupid shit but I just think this is going to affect my social relationships in the upcoming year.


I guess it depends on your school and the circumstances of your jerblessness, but at my school, it wasn't really a thing. I was ITE-no offered, and I just was up front about it when asked. I was on LR, so a lot of the people I talk to on the reg had jobs. For the most part, folks acted normally.


Yeah I don't really anticipate outright rudeness that doesn't happen. But I noticed some friends of mine from the class of 2013 going through some alienation after getting no-offered or just getting nothing for 2L summer. But who knows if it was self-imposed.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:46 am

At my school it is generally considered douchey to bring up one's gainful employment (or grades, for that matter) unless directly asked about it. Kind of like how old money rich folk think that discussing finances is rude, and when pressed, refer to themselves as "comfortable," or "upper middle class."




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