The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273071
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:05 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Void wrote:Wait, there's a shorter forgiveness period? Shorter than the 120 payments for public service?

No, just shorter than IBR. IBR is 25 years, PAYE is 20, PSLF is 10.

Additionally those pursuing careers in maritime piracy law qualify for IBArrrrrrrrrgh

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18402
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Void wrote:Wait, there's a shorter forgiveness period? Shorter than the 120 payments for public service?

No, just shorter than IBR. IBR is 25 years, PAYE is 20, PSLF is 10.

Additionally those pursuing careers in maritime piracy law qualify for IBArrrrrrrrrgh

Dead.

NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:02 pm

Void wrote:
unc0mm0n1 wrote:
Void wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Void,

Are you a 3L job hunting?


Just saw this. I would answer you if you had the sack to ask me unanonymously! LOL


My bad I hate posting anon.

Void,

Are you a 3L job hunting?

From that answer I'm assuming you're not. The title of this thread seems pretty clear. No advice foe 0/1/2Ls. Not trying to be a dick but if you're not in the position of being a 3L job hunting you probably should just read and not ask all these questions.


I graduated in May jobless. I actually just accepted an offer on Wednesday but there are some contingencies so I'm still keeping the job search going until I sign a contract. Ok with you?


Congrats. I hope it all works out.

Do you want to maybe explain the steps you took in your search. The idea is to compiled this stuff somewhere . I learned some things from peach's post that I didn't know existed.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:40 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273071
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:04 am

I've posted anonymously a few times here in the Vale, though more discreetly before. I think I'm going to wave the white flag and become a high school teacher. I can't take it anymore. I know this sounds like complete troll bait/flame--and take it for that if you want--but I recently graduated top five (numeric) from a T-14. I just seriously can't deal with the way my heart races anymore and my school's complete, if not indifference to, then complacency with my situation. I asked to meet with my dean and he told me to f-off in nice bureaucratese. Struck out with clerkships for 2013 and have nothing on the horizon for 2014. Interviewed with D.C. Circuit judge, 6th Cir., 10th Cir., Weil, Cravath, W&C, and Quinn but could never get over the hump. The only real positive to come out of this is the way my favorite professor called three judges on my behalf and reached out to his own firm.

No problem with background, interviewing skills are fine (or so been told).

Just looking for support from fellow Vale members. This is one of the toughest things I've ever gone through, and by far the most bitter. I just don't think spending another day in the Vale is an option for me. I know this sounds familiar to many of us: the receding hairline, the graying/whitening, the wrinkles. I don't want that anymore, and will trade success for "peace for our time."

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:14 am

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:I've posted anonymously a few times here in the Vale, though more discreetly before. I think I'm going to wave the white flag and become a high school teacher. I can't take it anymore. I know this sounds like complete troll bait/flame--and take it for that if you want--but I recently graduated top five (numeric) from a T-14. I just seriously can't deal with the way my heart races anymore and my school's complete, if not indifference to, then complacency with my situation. I asked to meet with my dean and he told me to f-off in nice bureaucratese. Struck out with clerkships for 2013 and have nothing on the horizon for 2014. Interviewed with D.C. Circuit judge, 6th Cir., 10th Cir., Weil, Cravath, W&C, and Quinn but could never get over the hump. The only real positive to come out of this is the way my favorite professor called three judges on my behalf and reached out to his own firm.

No problem with background, interviewing skills are fine (or so been told).

Just looking for support from fellow Vale members. This is one of the toughest things I've ever gone through, and by far the most bitter. I just don't think spending another day in the Vale is an option for me. I know this sounds familiar to many of us: the receding hairline, the graying/whitening, the wrinkles. I don't want that anymore, and will trade success for "peace for our time."


I believe you. Top schools can act like if you can't get a job it is your own fault. They seem to feel that the name of the school should be enough to get you in, so if you can't find a job it is all on you. And they can be incredibly snotty about it. The more desperate someone gets the less they want to help you.

I don't know what to say about teaching high school. If that is what you want, and you can get the job, then go for it.

Void
Posts: 857
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:56 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:16 am

NYstate wrote:
Void wrote:
I graduated in May jobless. I actually just accepted an offer on Wednesday but there are some contingencies so I'm still keeping the job search going until I sign a contract. Ok with you?


Congrats. I hope it all works out.

Do you want to maybe explain the steps you took in your search. The idea is to compiled this stuff somewhere . I learned some things from peach's post that I didn't know existed.


Meh- my story isn't helpful. I just sent my resume to the generic HR email address on the state agency's website and got a phone call for an initial interview like 3 months later. After that interview I got a CB for a final round interview. Got the offer about a week later. I got very lucky. If anything, my story supports the notion that it helps to just keep on applying to places and moving on- you might hear back months and months later from a place you thought had given you the cold shoulder.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273071
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:29 pm

Thanks for the support, guys. I just figure it's my best bet, between teaching and taking a $60,000 a year type legal job. I think the path to respectable law would be too attenuated and the shitlaw hours too hellish (for the pay) to even want to try to attempt that.

I heard the same about the bar yesterday from someone else--is the bar that much of a game changer? The only other thing I can think is pursue a Ph.D. but I didn't go straight through so I'm not a spring chicken (hardly, a summer chicken, in fact) and I can't imagine enduring subsistence living for another 5 to 8 years, especially with the academic market being what it is. And without a clerkship or at least respectable legal employment, I don't see legal academia as even a remote possibility (absent the Ph.D.). The only other thing I can think is some sort of BigFed honors program but that's probably even more a crapshoot than clerkships.

Congrats, Rad Lulz. You're been a big contributor to this forum. I thought you were still unemployed and was happy to read this morning that you nailed something--a litigation boutique at that!

Anonymous User
Posts: 273071
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the support, guys. I just figure it's my best bet, between teaching and taking a $60,000 a year type legal job. I think the path to respectable law would be too attenuated and the shitlaw hours too hellish (for the pay) to even want to try to attempt that.

I heard the same about the bar yesterday from someone else--is the bar that much of a game changer? The only other thing I can think is pursue a Ph.D. but I didn't go straight through so I'm not a spring chicken (hardly, a summer chicken, in fact) and I can't imagine enduring subsistence living for another 5 to 8 years, especially with the academic market being what it is. And without a clerkship or at least respectable legal employment, I don't see legal academia as even a remote possibility (absent the Ph.D.). The only other thing I can think is some sort of BigFed honors program but that's probably even more a crapshoot than clerkships.

Congrats, Rad Lulz. You're been a big contributor to this forum. I thought you were still unemployed and was happy to read this morning that you nailed something--a litigation boutique at that!


The PhD market market is even worse than the legal market. A lot of my friends are PhDs who are at the top of the PhD heap (CalTech/MIT/Princeton undergrad, published research in undergrad, #1 PhD program in their field, doing well) who say they probably will exit into private industry (all science/math PhDs) at graduation because the academic market is so dead and impossible.

User avatar
BarbellDreams
Posts: 2256
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:10 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:56 pm

This makes me wanna slam my head against a wall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZGR1kh5_c0

User avatar
chrisbru
Posts: 4252
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:44 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:16 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:This makes me wanna slam my head against a wall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZGR1kh5_c0


Dear god, the comments on that.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273071
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:51 pm

What do you guys think about the job search before bar results come out? Is it a waste of time?

A top-25% grad one year ahead told me he applied for jobs after bar results because he thought no one would care until he actually had a license. And then he got a job through a job posting (the pay isn't great, though). On the other hand, an attorney told me I should start ASAP.

I feel very insecure because I'm in the Bay Area with a non-EE tech background looking for patent prosecution work. I've been sending out emails to contacts (mostly no response) and apps online and through connections. The only interview I got was through an app I sent in July during bar study. Didn't get an offer. Not sure what else to do at this point because I need something.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What do you guys think about the job search before bar results come out? Is it a waste of time?

A top-25% grad one year ahead told me he applied for jobs after bar results because he thought no one would care until he actually had a license. And then he got a job through a job posting (the pay isn't great, though). On the other hand, an attorney told me I should start ASAP.

I feel very insecure because I'm in the Bay Area with a non-EE tech background looking for patent prosecution work. I've been sending out emails to contacts (mostly no response) and apps online and through connections. The only interview I got was through an app I sent in July during bar study. Didn't get an offer. Not sure what else to do at this point because I need something.

Keep looking now. It's that or sit on your hands.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273071
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:58 pm

If you are still waiting on an answer from a firm on whether or not they will give you a cold offer, would telling firms that you are unsure of your offer status in an interview be stretching the truth too much?

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If you are still waiting on an answer from a firm on whether or not they will give you a cold offer, would telling firms that you are unsure of your offer status in an interview be stretching the truth too much?

Yeah I wouldn't do that

Void
Posts: 857
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:56 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If you are still waiting on an answer from a firm on whether or not they will give you a cold offer, would telling firms that you are unsure of your offer status in an interview be stretching the truth too much?


Why not just say you haven't yet heard?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273071
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:24 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What do you guys think about the job search before bar results come out? Is it a waste of time?

A top-25% grad one year ahead told me he applied for jobs after bar results because he thought no one would care until he actually had a license. And then he got a job through a job posting (the pay isn't great, though). On the other hand, an attorney told me I should start ASAP.

I feel very insecure because I'm in the Bay Area with a non-EE tech background looking for patent prosecution work. I've been sending out emails to contacts (mostly no response) and apps online and through connections. The only interview I got was through an app I sent in July during bar study. Didn't get an offer. Not sure what else to do at this point because I need something.

Keep looking now. It's that or sit on your hands.

True, that's my current approach. But if I don't get interviews now, is it a good idea to recontact the places I'm applying to 3 months later and mention passing the bar (if I did)?

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What do you guys think about the job search before bar results come out? Is it a waste of time?

A top-25% grad one year ahead told me he applied for jobs after bar results because he thought no one would care until he actually had a license. And then he got a job through a job posting (the pay isn't great, though). On the other hand, an attorney told me I should start ASAP.

I feel very insecure because I'm in the Bay Area with a non-EE tech background looking for patent prosecution work. I've been sending out emails to contacts (mostly no response) and apps online and through connections. The only interview I got was through an app I sent in July during bar study. Didn't get an offer. Not sure what else to do at this point because I need something.

Keep looking now. It's that or sit on your hands.

True, that's my current approach. But if I don't get interviews now, is it a good idea to recontact the places I'm applying to 3 months later and mention passing the bar (if I did)?

Def bro

Anonymous User
Posts: 273071
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:34 pm

Void wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If you are still waiting on an answer from a firm on whether or not they will give you a cold offer, would telling firms that you are unsure of your offer status in an interview be stretching the truth too much?


Why not just say you haven't yet heard?


I was thinking about just saying I am still waiting for word from them. I just don't want to say that I got no offered when the firm might give me a cold offer but I also don't want to lie.

Void
Posts: 857
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:56 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Void wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If you are still waiting on an answer from a firm on whether or not they will give you a cold offer, would telling firms that you are unsure of your offer status in an interview be stretching the truth too much?


Why not just say you haven't yet heard?


I was thinking about just saying I am still waiting for word from them. I just don't want to say that I got no offered when the firm might give me a cold offer but I also don't want to lie.


IMO cold offer = "I got an offer but I have decided to explore other options," for interview purposes. So waiting for cold offer= "I haven't heard yet but I have decided to explore other options."

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18402
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:05 pm

I feel like saying you're not sure or saying haven't heard yet might be stretching the truth a little too far. I see why you might say "I don't know yet" but I personally would shy away from it because you technically have heard, you're just asking them to rereview your situation. That said, hopefully someone who's been in that situation can provide better insight.

User avatar
snowpeach06
Posts: 2426
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby snowpeach06 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the support, guys. I just figure it's my best bet, between teaching and taking a $60,000 a year type legal job. I think the path to respectable law would be too attenuated and the shitlaw hours too hellish (for the pay) to even want to try to attempt that.

I heard the same about the bar yesterday from someone else--is the bar that much of a game changer? The only other thing I can think is pursue a Ph.D. but I didn't go straight through so I'm not a spring chicken (hardly, a summer chicken, in fact) and I can't imagine enduring subsistence living for another 5 to 8 years, especially with the academic market being what it is. And without a clerkship or at least respectable legal employment, I don't see legal academia as even a remote possibility (absent the Ph.D.). The only other thing I can think is some sort of BigFed honors program but that's probably even more a crapshoot than clerkships.

Congrats, Rad Lulz. You're been a big contributor to this forum. I thought you were still unemployed and was happy to read this morning that you nailed something--a litigation boutique at that!

Anecdotally, my friend got hired within a week of passing the bar. And many places flat out say they won't hire til then. I think it is a game changer, and I wouldn't give up just yet if I were you.

ninereal
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:39 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ninereal » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:50 pm

joining this thread

Came back to my (West Coast) home market to look for a job after going to (East Coast) T14, and starting in a region where you've only done one summer's worth of legal work is kind of shitty - fortunately, I can at least live at home while I search.

Also, emailed my CSO counselor to see if they had Symplicity reciprocity with the local law schools (there are like two postings for my home market on my school's site), she forwarded to whoever else in the office is responsible for that, and the last person straight-up ignored me, so that was pretty great. I know you don't give a shit about anyone who doesn't want to work on the East Coast, but you could at least pretend.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:52 pm

ninereal wrote:joining this thread

Came back to my (West Coast) home market to look for a job after going to (East Coast) T14, and starting in a region where you've only done one summer's worth of legal work is kind of shitty - fortunately, I can at least live at home while I search.

Also, emailed my CSO counselor to see if they had Symplicity reciprocity with the local law schools (there are like two postings for my home market on my school's site), she forwarded to whoever else in the office is responsible for that, and the last person straight-up ignored me, so that was pretty great. I know you don't give a shit about anyone who doesn't want to work on the East Coast, but you could at least pretend.

Parents are clutch man. They gonna let you live for free?




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.