The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:09 am

Just finished an interview for a PI gig using my school's funded fellowship. So basically, if I get rejected, they will be telling me that it wasn't worth it to them to bring me on at 0 cost to themselves. That would be unpleasant.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby deebs » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:15 am

Who can tell me how I should go about trying to swing my finance undergrad and JD to try and get a consulting position? Don't mean to sound like a douche, but should I be putting my 780 math SAT on my resume - I heard consulting firms care about that, but what do I know? Also, I know I'm not getting any tip of the top consulting firms, I was looking more at firms like Accenture/McGladrey. I've also been thinking of taking two community college classes so I would be CPA eligible.

My current plan is to get my linked in up date and start finding recruiters on there and messaging them. I've tried calling and e-mailing, but that got me like one returned call saying they don't want recent JD's for their tax consulting at one of the big four.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:28 am

deebs wrote:Who can tell me how I should go about trying to swing my finance undergrad and JD to try and get a consulting position? Don't mean to sound like a douche, but should I be putting my 780 math SAT on my resume - I heard consulting firms care about that, but what do I know? Also, I know I'm not getting any tip of the top consulting firms, I was looking more at firms like Accenture/McGladrey. I've also been thinking of taking two community college classes so I would be CPA eligible.

My current plan is to get my linked in up date and start finding recruiters on there and messaging them. I've tried calling and e-mailing, but that got me like one returned call saying they don't want recent JD's for their tax consulting at one of the big four.

Don't put your SAT on your résumé. They don't care how good at math you were at basic math when you were 16. A CPA will definitely make you more marketable. I worked at a small consulting firm, and networking is going to be your best bet at most of those places.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:32 am

Bikeflip wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Will doc review be a scarlet letter for gov/PI employers?

Leave it off your resume


I think the only way you can do this is if you volunteer or have a side jerb. Having a year of doc review probably looks better than a year of unemployment. Still crap, but at least you can account for the time.


You do doc review and volunteer for some public interest pro bono thing where they will let you do a motion here and there or interview a client and put the volunteering and all the skills you're obtaining on your resume while leaving doc review out. Putting doc review on your resume is literally like stamping the "I quit" sign. I know of one attorney who did doc review for a few years and got out, but he got out to a shit firm for a shit salary in shitty conditions. I'd honestly rather just have the doc review.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:45 am

Question- is there any way I can do doc review before I'm barred?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:50 am

I have a jd from a top school, kids, and work as a fucking fry cook for less than $10/hr. It's ok to feel bad about your situation. It's not ok to let your ego prevent you from doing things NOW that can keep you afloat. Get over it.


I get it, but it's not about ego. I really find it offensive when people assume that someone who graduated law school has an entitlement mentality just because that person wants a decent paying job out of school. Let's just be clear. This was THREE years of my life. And over 100k in loans. I can't afford to take a $10/hr job. It makes no sense. There must be some benefit for taking this JD in the form of a higher salary. If I wanted a $10/hr job I could just have done that for three years instead of going to law school. I can't work for that kind of salary anymore, it's over, I have done every job like that you can imagine for nearly 10 years, it is time to move on for me.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:02 am

JenDarby wrote:
deebs wrote:Who can tell me how I should go about trying to swing my finance undergrad and JD to try and get a consulting position? Don't mean to sound like a douche, but should I be putting my 780 math SAT on my resume - I heard consulting firms care about that, but what do I know? Also, I know I'm not getting any tip of the top consulting firms, I was looking more at firms like Accenture/McGladrey. I've also been thinking of taking two community college classes so I would be CPA eligible.

My current plan is to get my linked in up date and start finding recruiters on there and messaging them. I've tried calling and e-mailing, but that got me like one returned call saying they don't want recent JD's for their tax consulting at one of the big four.

Don't put your SAT on your résumé. They don't care how good at math you were at basic math when you were 16. A CPA will definitely make you more marketable. I worked at a small consulting firm, and networking is going to be your best bet at most of those places.


Going through the consulting recruitment process now and this is 100% wrong for major firms. Put any standardized test score you have that is impressive (including LSAT 170+). They care about "raw" intelligence and analytical abilities.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:Question- is there any way I can do doc review before I'm barred?


Yes. Apply for and take a position if offered, then don't put it on your resume. I don't think anyone really expects any substantive legal work between taking and passing the bar.

If I don't get any good leads in the next week or so, that's what I am going to do.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:
I have a jd from a top school, kids, and work as a fucking fry cook for less than $10/hr. It's ok to feel bad about your situation. It's not ok to let your ego prevent you from doing things NOW that can keep you afloat. Get over it.


I get it, but it's not about ego. I really find it offensive when people assume that someone who graduated law school has an entitlement mentality just because that person wants a decent paying job out of school. Let's just be clear. This was THREE years of my life. And over 100k in loans. I can't afford to take a $10/hr job. It makes no sense. There must be some benefit for taking this JD in the form of a higher salary. If I wanted a $10/hr job I could just have done that for three years instead of going to law school. I can't work for that kind of salary anymore, it's over, I have done every job like that you can imagine for nearly 10 years, it is time to move on for me.

Okay, but if you can't get that job, then what? I don't get how someone can't afford to take a $10/hr job if the alternative is $0/hr. (If you have other resources or someone to support you, sure, but that's a different situation.)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
deebs wrote:Who can tell me how I should go about trying to swing my finance undergrad and JD to try and get a consulting position? Don't mean to sound like a douche, but should I be putting my 780 math SAT on my resume - I heard consulting firms care about that, but what do I know? Also, I know I'm not getting any tip of the top consulting firms, I was looking more at firms like Accenture/McGladrey. I've also been thinking of taking two community college classes so I would be CPA eligible.

My current plan is to get my linked in up date and start finding recruiters on there and messaging them. I've tried calling and e-mailing, but that got me like one returned call saying they don't want recent JD's for their tax consulting at one of the big four.

Don't put your SAT on your résumé. They don't care how good at math you were at basic math when you were 16. A CPA will definitely make you more marketable. I worked at a small consulting firm, and networking is going to be your best bet at most of those places.


Going through the consulting recruitment process now and this is 100% wrong for major firms. Put any standardized test score you have that is impressive (including LSAT 170+). They care about "raw" intelligence and analytical abilities.


Wait.. this is real? I could be competitive for consulting jobs based on my test scores? (172 LSAT, 1600 SAT, 35 ACT).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
deebs wrote:Who can tell me how I should go about trying to swing my finance undergrad and JD to try and get a consulting position? Don't mean to sound like a douche, but should I be putting my 780 math SAT on my resume - I heard consulting firms care about that, but what do I know? Also, I know I'm not getting any tip of the top consulting firms, I was looking more at firms like Accenture/McGladrey. I've also been thinking of taking two community college classes so I would be CPA eligible.

My current plan is to get my linked in up date and start finding recruiters on there and messaging them. I've tried calling and e-mailing, but that got me like one returned call saying they don't want recent JD's for their tax consulting at one of the big four.

Don't put your SAT on your résumé. They don't care how good at math you were at basic math when you were 16. A CPA will definitely make you more marketable. I worked at a small consulting firm, and networking is going to be your best bet at most of those places.


Going through the consulting recruitment process now and this is 100% wrong for major firms. Put any standardized test score you have that is impressive (including LSAT 170+). They care about "raw" intelligence and analytical abilities.


Wait.. this is real? I could be competitive for consulting jobs based on my test scores? (172 LSAT, 1600 SAT, 35 ACT).


Not "based" on your test scores but that will at least give you an element in your favor. Also going to care about what schools you went to, your prior work experience, anything that shows leadership qualities, personality, and how you work through the cases. Unfortunately, the firms most likely to let you in based mostly on raw intelligence are also the ones that are most difficult to get.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:12 am

Yes. Apply for and take a position if offered, then don't put it on your resume. I don't think anyone really expects any substantive legal work between taking and passing the bar.

If I don't get any good leads in the next week or so, that's what I am going to do.


Every doc review job I see out there says you need to already be barred :\.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:18 am

My bf was a partner at a large consulting firm, and he was responsible for hiring. Go ahead and put your SAT on your résumé, I've never heard this to be wise.

Yes, elite colleges/grad schools, work experience, and leadership matter. That's a given.

Edit: my iPhones killing me here
Last edited by JenDarby on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby iceman219 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:19 am

I'm also interested in the consulting route at this juncture, after being stuck in limbo with my 2L summer firm STILL stringing me along (13 months later), the Bar behind me, and no near-term interviews in sight.

I looked thoroughly at McKinsey/top consulting firms, and they just seem so much more oriented toward Harvard/Yale MBA types than anybody else. I know a few people at big 4 firms as well as regional consulting firms, but how to re-orient my Finance degree + 3 years work experience + JD for the consulting market is something I am still trying to piece together.

And besides the Bar being one of the most stressful times of my life thus far, plus the Vale position at the moment, life doesn't get any easier when my serious g/f is on the verge of breaking up with me after all of this.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:27 am

Don't put your SAT, LSAT, ACT scores on your resume. On the application for top consulting firms (BCG, Mck, Bain) they'll straight up ask you what your scores are. If they are very high scores, you went to a good school and have a background that looks intriguing, you'll probably at least get an interview. However, these aren't like law firms, the interviews are pretty brutal (or fun if you like business) and you need to spend a lot of time preparing for them in a quantitative and qualitative way. Not sure about other consulting firms like the Big 4, OW, BAH, or ATK, but i'm sure its more of the same. I know some firms don't use the case interview method and are more about behavioral interviews, but not exactly sure what that entails other than them asking specific "tell me a time..." questions.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:36 am

And besides the Bar being one of the most stressful times of my life thus far, plus the Vale position at the moment, life doesn't get any easier when my serious g/f is on the verge of breaking up with me after all of this.


Why is she on the verge of breaking up with you?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:38 am

iceman219 wrote:I'm also interested in the consulting route at this juncture, after being stuck in limbo with my 2L summer firm STILL stringing me along (13 months later), the Bar behind me, and no near-term interviews in sight.

I looked thoroughly at McKinsey/top consulting firms, and they just seem so much more oriented toward Harvard/Yale MBA types than anybody else. I know a few people at big 4 firms as well as regional consulting firms, but how to re-orient my Finance degree + 3 years work experience + JD for the consulting market is something I am still trying to piece together.

And besides the Bar being one of the most stressful times of my life thus far, plus the Vale position at the moment, life doesn't get any easier when my serious g/f is on the verge of breaking up with me after all of this.


Give up on MBB, they only recruit JDs in earnest from HYS type law schools. At H last year only 4 of the 12 people who accepted McKinsey callbacks received offers (no breakdown on whether JD/MBAs or not) and BCG only made 1 offer for 4 accepted callbacks.

Regarding listing LSAT scores, from the McKinsey website under "Improving your resume":

McKinsey says wrote:Applicants who have taken standardized tests such as the GMAT, LSAT, SAT, etc. should also include their scores. Provide as much detail as possible here.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby iceman219 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:
And besides the Bar being one of the most stressful times of my life thus far, plus the Vale position at the moment, life doesn't get any easier when my serious g/f is on the verge of breaking up with me after all of this.


Why is she on the verge of breaking up with you?


Basically w/ the Bar focus/priority being #1, she has been #2 for a good six weeks+. Add a recent fight, worries about the rough stretch being the status quo for the future, her own summer grad school program/life stresses, job hunts, and it's a volatile mix.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:44 am

Anon (why are you posting anon anyway?), you're citing one place that specifically asks for them. Cravath wants UG transcripts, that doesn't mean you should hand them to other firms during interviews. Is that caption stating to fill them in on an online application, or is it suggesting you put them on your résumé/CV - HUGE difference.

I worked at midsized firm where people made 80k (paralegals) to about 150k (consultants with no experience) to 600k (experienced consultants). I collected resumes from applicants at times and would never have passed one on with an SAT score on it.

My bf was at a major consulting firm, and I just confirmed with him and he laughed at the notion of putting your SAT on your CV.

Put your SAT on your résumé/CV at your own risk, is all I will say.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Going through the consulting recruitment process now and this is 100% wrong for major firms. Put any standardized test score you have that is impressive (including LSAT 170+). They care about "raw" intelligence and analytical abilities.


Well, hell, I should totally apply for consulting? Would a 790 math and 171 LSAT make up for a 3.01 undergrad GPA?

Anonymous User wrote:Don't put your SAT, LSAT, ACT scores on your resume. On the application for top consulting firms (BCG, Mck, Bain) they'll straight up ask you what your scores are. If they are very high scores, you went to a good school and have a background that looks intriguing, you'll probably at least get an interview. However, these aren't like law firms, the interviews are pretty brutal (or fun if you like business) and you need to spend a lot of time preparing for them in a quantitative and qualitative way. Not sure about other consulting firms like the Big 4, OW, BAH, or ATK, but i'm sure its more of the same. I know some firms don't use the case interview method and are more about behavioral interviews, but not exactly sure what that entails other than them asking specific "tell me a time..." questions.


This makes way more sense.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby newyorker88 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Yes. Apply for and take a position if offered, then don't put it on your resume. I don't think anyone really expects any substantive legal work between taking and passing the bar.

If I don't get any good leads in the next week or so, that's what I am going to do.


Every doc review job I see out there says you need to already be barred :\.


I don't know where you're located but this site has a lot of temporary positions. I'm not sure how many of them require you to already be admitted though.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:30 pm

bjsesq wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Work shit jobs until you get something better. This isn't some "I need a legal job now or I will never have one" situation.


If I'm not making 50k then I can't live. I have credit card bills, I have apartment rent, I have things. After three years of my life working shit jobs and hustling through internships and law clerk positions and god knows what the fuck else I did, I can't just work as a bartender or a $12/hr job right now. I would rather and gladly die than do that. Life is not worth it if I am 27 with a JD from a top school and can't get a job that pays at least 50k.


I have a jd from a top school, kids, and work as a fucking fry cook for less than $10/hr. It's ok to feel bad about your situation. It's not ok to let your ego prevent you from doing things NOW that can keep you afloat. Get over it.

Jesus, this is wrong. Are you volunteering at a firm or clinic at least? Does your school have any positions open for the LWR department or anything?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I have a jd from a top school, kids, and work as a fucking fry cook for less than $10/hr. It's ok to feel bad about your situation. It's not ok to let your ego prevent you from doing things NOW that can keep you afloat. Get over it.


I get it, but it's not about ego. I really find it offensive when people assume that someone who graduated law school has an entitlement mentality just because that person wants a decent paying job out of school. Let's just be clear. This was THREE years of my life. And over 100k in loans. I can't afford to take a $10/hr job. It makes no sense. There must be some benefit for taking this JD in the form of a higher salary. If I wanted a $10/hr job I could just have done that for three years instead of going to law school. I can't work for that kind of salary anymore, it's over, I have done every job like that you can imagine for nearly 10 years, it is time to move on for me.


No one is saying you won't ever get the benefit of your degree. What I'm saying is killing yourself because you can't find one in the next few weeks doesn't make sense.

Give yourself a long time to find a job.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:52 pm

I have never worked on the Hill before, but I did public relations before law school and also have a useless MA in public relations. Is it super hard to break into lobbying? What about just getting a low paying job on the Hill? I'm not sure how to get these jobs or where to find them.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:11 pm

Jessuf wrote:I have never worked on the Hill before, but I did public relations before law school and also have a useless MA in public relations. Is it super hard to break into lobbying? What about just getting a low paying job on the Hill? I'm not sure how to get these jobs or where to find them.

A buddy of mine was trying to get into this straight out

She says they invariably want previous legal experience

Which I guess makes sense

You could probably swing an unpaid internship working on a campaign or for a congressbro, but you won't eat




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