The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the encouragement and the advice guys! I think getting over nerves and trying to really project confidence is going to be the toughest thing for me, so that's what I'm going to have to make a strong effort to do tomorrow. I've been preparing pretty hard for the interview, doing my research, practicing my answers, and thinking of good questions to ask about the firm and to the partners themselves. Thanks again. I'll definitely let y'all know how it goes. *Fingers crossed!*


Good Luck!

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:52 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the encouragement and the advice guys! I think getting over nerves and trying to really project confidence is going to be the toughest thing for me, so that's what I'm going to have to make a strong effort to do tomorrow. I've been preparing pretty hard for the interview, doing my research, practicing my answers, and thinking of good questions to ask about the firm and to the partners themselves. Thanks again. I'll definitely let y'all know how it goes. *Fingers crossed!*


Good Luck!


+1

NYstate
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the encouragement and the advice guys! I think getting over nerves and trying to really project confidence is going to be the toughest thing for me, so that's what I'm going to have to make a strong effort to do tomorrow. I've been preparing pretty hard for the interview, doing my research, practicing my answers, and thinking of good questions to ask about the firm and to the partners themselves. Thanks again. I'll definitely let y'all know how it goes. *Fingers crossed!*


Remember you went to one of the best law schools in the country. You have a lot to offer.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:01 am

A paper application? Printed out and submitted through the US Postal Service? Really, Dallas Court of Appeals? Really?

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:03 am

kalvano wrote:A paper application? Printed out and submitted through the US Postal Service? Really, Dallas Court of Appeals? Really?



Yeah, I'm applying to a district judge with the same requirements (though it's Fedex, not the Postal Service). I feel all 1972 here. Having to pick out resume paper and whatnot.

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chem!
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chem! » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:14 am

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
J. R. Capablanca wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
Tell me, then, what is serving in the FFL, or any elite military unit for that matter, like? One of us has already done it.


The first few months will be very, very hard. You will be stressed to the breaking point, disoriented, shouted at, verbally, probably even physically abused. You must learn french on a dime, and if you don't catch on quickly, you will be punished for it. After you get done with training, your life will get significantly easier. You will get free time and spending money, though you will still be required to work hard and stay in shape.

No walk in the park, but for me personally, better than the alternative.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


He's never served a day in the military, let alone a Ranger bat or anything resembling SF. I just find it funny he's telling you about life in the military and "how easy" it is. Why isn't he banned yet?

He's on a sabbatical from TLS at the moment.

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20160810
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby 20160810 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I wanted to write an anon post to all the suicide threaders in this topic about my experience with the job search. Here it goes, I hope it makes everyone feel better.

My story: Went to a top school had good grades somehow struck out at OCI and ended up in your position. I would have daily conversations with some close friends and loved ones about how hopeless my life would be and how my life was somehow over without a job. It became difficult to even be around others at school who all had their fancy biglaw jobs while I had literally nothing. I hustled literally everyday, probably applied to over 1,000 positions. Finally during the end of 2L year, a biglaw firm was looking for an associate in my dream practice area. I didn't even believe it was possible when they expressed interest, and when after a few interviews I landed the job I literally was deliriously happy to the point where I couldnt stop smiling and celebrating everyday, so happy I made it and would be handsomely rewarded for my hard work.

Flash-forward 20 months: I have just billed fifty hours in the past three days on rush jobs which the client demands get done. My body literally trembles as my eyelids burn in pain from only getting 4 hours of sleep the last few days, but hey, its weekend time baby. Partner emails firm, there is a new emergency rush job and associates are going to need to volunteer to work the weekend. I call that nice girl I had a couple dates with and explain that I'm going to have to delay the brunch date we planned (yet another re-schedule). I ask to re-schedule, she says don't bother, I cannot blame her.

As the weekend winds down and Sunday approaches, I google search for men's regenerative hair therapy, at 27 years old my hair is already thinning and balding from the stress at work. I then get comments back to my latest project, nothing substantive, but I forgot in a couple places to bold some terms and am told I need to stop being so careless and deliver high quality work product. As Monday morning rolls around I am again chewed out by a partner over my carelessness, as instead of explaining what is wrong with my work he sarcastically gets in my face and yells at me in a condescending manner for not understanding what is going on.

I think back to the guy 20 months ago, sure he had no jobs, but he had an amazing girlfriend, an awesome group of friends to roll with all the time. I talk to other friends in biglaw about how worried we were about getting these jobs, and we literally cannot do anything but laugh about how foolish we were to revere these jobs according to the school culture. Most of us will be leaving in a few months, not concerned about being in your unemployed position, as we learned the hard way about the things that really matter in life, none of which involve money.

This is my story, and I hope it helps some of you in this topic. You are all smart capable people who will thrive in jobs even if significantly less prestigious than biglaw, and probably enjoy them much more. Wish everyone here all the best.

Suck it up for a year or so and quit when your loans are paid back dood. You'll make it.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:20 pm

Ok. So DAs hire at OCI. I applied. I'd really really rather work PDs, but they don't hire till spring here (and EJW is in October). Should I withdraw my DA apps to make sure I get a job of really like? Or do the DA interviews and hope I get a job, any job I'd be cool with?

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20160810
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby 20160810 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:25 pm

spleenworship wrote:Ok. So DAs hire at OCI. I applied. I'd really really rather work PDs, but they don't hire till spring here (and EJW is in October). Should I withdraw my DA apps to make sure I get a job of really like? Or do the DA interviews and hope I get a job, any job I'd be cool with?

I suspect they'll be able to suss that out on their own honestly. I interview pretty well as a rule and I BOMBED every DA interview I had because they basically could just tell that I wasn't enough of a true believer.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:28 pm

SBL wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Ok. So DAs hire at OCI. I applied. I'd really really rather work PDs, but they don't hire till spring here (and EJW is in October). Should I withdraw my DA apps to make sure I get a job of really like? Or do the DA interviews and hope I get a job, any job I'd be cool with?

I suspect they'll be able to suss that out on their own honestly. I interview pretty well as a rule and I BOMBED every DA interview I had because they basically could just tell that I wasn't enough of a true believer.



Hmm. But what if they actually did offer me a job...

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:37 pm

I wanted to write an anon post to all the suicide threaders in this topic about my experience with the job search. Here it goes, I hope it makes everyone feel better.

My story: Went to a top school had good grades somehow struck out at OCI and ended up in your position. I would have daily conversations with some close friends and loved ones about how hopeless my life would be and how my life was somehow over without a job. It became difficult to even be around others at school who all had their fancy biglaw jobs while I had literally nothing. I hustled literally everyday, probably applied to over 1,000 positions. Finally during the end of 2L year, a biglaw firm was looking for an associate in my dream practice area. I didn't even believe it was possible when they expressed interest, and when after a few interviews I landed the job I literally was deliriously happy to the point where I couldnt stop smiling and celebrating everyday, so happy I made it and would be handsomely rewarded for my hard work.

Flash-forward 20 months: I have just billed fifty hours in the past three days on rush jobs which the client demands get done. My body literally trembles as my eyelids burn in pain from only getting 4 hours of sleep the last few days, but hey, its weekend time baby. Partner emails firm, there is a new emergency rush job and associates are going to need to volunteer to work the weekend. I call that nice girl I had a couple dates with and explain that I'm going to have to delay the brunch date we planned (yet another re-schedule). I ask to re-schedule, she says don't bother, I cannot blame her.

As the weekend winds down and Sunday approaches, I google search for men's regenerative hair therapy, at 27 years old my hair is already thinning and balding from the stress at work. I then get comments back to my latest project, nothing substantive, but I forgot in a couple places to bold some terms and am told I need to stop being so careless and deliver high quality work product. As Monday morning rolls around I am again chewed out by a partner over my carelessness, as instead of explaining what is wrong with my work he sarcastically gets in my face and yells at me in a condescending manner for not understanding what is going on.

I think back to the guy 20 months ago, sure he had no jobs, but he had an amazing girlfriend, an awesome group of friends to roll with all the time. I talk to other friends in biglaw about how worried we were about getting these jobs, and we literally cannot do anything but laugh about how foolish we were to revere these jobs according to the school culture. Most of us will be leaving in a few months, not concerned about being in your unemployed position, as we learned the hard way about the things that really matter in life, none of which involve money.

This is my story, and I hope it helps some of you in this topic. You are all smart capable people who will thrive in jobs even if significantly less prestigious than biglaw, and probably enjoy them much more. Wish everyone here all the best.


Thanks for the post. To be honest, I would kill to be in your position right now. What you described sounds bad- but sitting at home eating chips and rotting away in misery with no job and no money is much, much worse.

Cyne
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Cyne » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I wanted to write an anon post to all the suicide threaders in this topic about my experience with the job search. Here it goes, I hope it makes everyone feel better.

My story: Went to a top school had good grades somehow struck out at OCI and ended up in your position. I would have daily conversations with some close friends and loved ones about how hopeless my life would be and how my life was somehow over without a job. It became difficult to even be around others at school who all had their fancy biglaw jobs while I had literally nothing. I hustled literally everyday, probably applied to over 1,000 positions. Finally during the end of 2L year, a biglaw firm was looking for an associate in my dream practice area. I didn't even believe it was possible when they expressed interest, and when after a few interviews I landed the job I literally was deliriously happy to the point where I couldnt stop smiling and celebrating everyday, so happy I made it and would be handsomely rewarded for my hard work.

Flash-forward 20 months: I have just billed fifty hours in the past three days on rush jobs which the client demands get done. My body literally trembles as my eyelids burn in pain from only getting 4 hours of sleep the last few days, but hey, its weekend time baby. Partner emails firm, there is a new emergency rush job and associates are going to need to volunteer to work the weekend. I call that nice girl I had a couple dates with and explain that I'm going to have to delay the brunch date we planned (yet another re-schedule). I ask to re-schedule, she says don't bother, I cannot blame her.

As the weekend winds down and Sunday approaches, I google search for men's regenerative hair therapy, at 27 years old my hair is already thinning and balding from the stress at work. I then get comments back to my latest project, nothing substantive, but I forgot in a couple places to bold some terms and am told I need to stop being so careless and deliver high quality work product. As Monday morning rolls around I am again chewed out by a partner over my carelessness, as instead of explaining what is wrong with my work he sarcastically gets in my face and yells at me in a condescending manner for not understanding what is going on.

I think back to the guy 20 months ago, sure he had no jobs, but he had an amazing girlfriend, an awesome group of friends to roll with all the time. I talk to other friends in biglaw about how worried we were about getting these jobs, and we literally cannot do anything but laugh about how foolish we were to revere these jobs according to the school culture. Most of us will be leaving in a few months, not concerned about being in your unemployed position, as we learned the hard way about the things that really matter in life, none of which involve money.

This is my story, and I hope it helps some of you in this topic. You are all smart capable people who will thrive in jobs even if significantly less prestigious than biglaw, and probably enjoy them much more. Wish everyone here all the best.


Thanks for the post. To be honest, I would kill to be in your position right now. What you described sounds bad- but sitting at home eating chips and rotting away in misery with no job and no money is much, much worse.


So much this. I don't know what to do with myself some days. Only thing I can think of I won't do is doc review...I'd rather go back to construction. Otherwise I am happy to grab my ankles for any employer at this point.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:44 pm

spleenworship wrote:
SBL wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Ok. So DAs hire at OCI. I applied. I'd really really rather work PDs, but they don't hire till spring here (and EJW is in October). Should I withdraw my DA apps to make sure I get a job of really like? Or do the DA interviews and hope I get a job, any job I'd be cool with?

I suspect they'll be able to suss that out on their own honestly. I interview pretty well as a rule and I BOMBED every DA interview I had because they basically could just tell that I wasn't enough of a true believer.



Hmm. But what if they actually did offer me a job...


I would take it. It is great trial exp and you can switch later to PDs if you want to stay in the field, or lateral to a local firm or other govt office.

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:33 pm

Rising 2L here, but all these suicidal posts are scaring the crap outta me as I have a depressive personality to begin with. :(

Since, like many law students, I connect so much of my self-worth to career/professional success, I can definitely see myself feeling that way if I end up jerbless...

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:41 pm

BlueLotus wrote:Rising 2L here, but all these suicidal posts are scaring the crap outta me as I have a depressive personality to begin with. :(

Since, like many law students, I connect so much of my self-worth to career/professional success, I can definitely see myself feeling that way if I end up jerbless...


This thread is not for you. Regardless, it is far too early to start wondering how you will feel if you're jobless. Just focus on the 2L summer job hunt and keeping your grades strong, doing well in journal/moot court, etc.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Well I decided to throw myself at the mercy of my favorite firm. I've been waiting for a response from an interview for a few weeks now. I got another offer from a firm last yesterday but it's not what I want. So yesterday I sent an e-mail to my favorite firm telling them about the other offer and that they are my first choice. I was really candid and I'm hoping it will spark them to give me an offer if they are planning to do so. The time frame is short (by Monday). Even if it's a no, at least I'll know either way.


Update: I spoke with the firm this morning and the practice group I interviewed with wants to make me an offer. They have put together the terms of the offer and need the partners to approve it before officially extending it. The partner meeting is Thursday night, so I should have an answer by Friday or next Monday. I am so excited! I thought I had a good interview with them and apparently I was not wrong. And of course, I declined the other offer.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Well I decided to throw myself at the mercy of my favorite firm. I've been waiting for a response from an interview for a few weeks now. I got another offer from a firm last yesterday but it's not what I want. So yesterday I sent an e-mail to my favorite firm telling them about the other offer and that they are my first choice. I was really candid and I'm hoping it will spark them to give me an offer if they are planning to do so. The time frame is short (by Monday). Even if it's a no, at least I'll know either way.


Update: I spoke with the firm this morning and the practice group I interviewed with wants to make me an offer. They have put together the terms of the offer and need the partners to approve it before officially extending it. The partner meeting is Thursday night, so I should have an answer by Friday or next Monday. I am so excited! I thought I had a good interview with them and apparently I was not wrong. And of course, I declined the other offer.


Congrats!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:51 pm

Let me know if topic is not appropriate for post-bar job hunters.

I am thinking about asking people I've networked with over the past 2 years and was wondering how I should word my email. The basic structure would be:

- Just graduated, took the bar, starting job search
- This is my practice area of interest
- Do you know if anyone's hiring
- Here's my resume in case you want to forward it
- [Ask if they know anyone who would be good to speak with?]
- [Ask to meet and catch up? Or no?]

How does that look? I don't want to come off as I'm only contacting them out of the blue for possible job opportunities. Has anyone had success asking their network of people? Any tips? Thanks!

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:45 pm

a male human wrote:Let me know if topic is not appropriate for post-bar job hunters.

I am thinking about asking people I've networked with over the past 2 years and was wondering how I should word my email. The basic structure would be:

- Just graduated, took the bar, starting job search
- This is my practice area of interest
- Do you know if anyone's hiring
- Here's my resume in case you want to forward it
- [Ask if they know anyone who would be good to speak with?]
- [Ask to meet and catch up? Or no?]

How does that look? I don't want to come off as I'm only contacting them out of the blue for possible job opportunities. Has anyone had success asking their network of people? Any tips? Thanks!


I would do all of those. They'll understand.

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gwuorbust
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gwuorbust » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:50 pm

Just generally a good job hunting tip that I've figured out.

You should focus on what you can do for the potential employer. I know that this is not easy. You might be thinking, what can I do? Remember, while you are looking for a job, an employer considers another employee a big cost. An employer will only consider hiring you if you fill a need. So you need to figure out what need you can say you can fill.

A good practice is to start by identifying potential practice areas that you think are growing at small and mid sized firms in your area. Perhaps you find this out through a newspaper article, informational interviews, or through the grapevine. You can then leverage that in an email by stating how you can help that firm by doing YYY, QQQ, and ZZZ. While only a little different from saying "I would like employment in XXX area and here is why I'm qualified," I think it makes a world of difference. Using this tactic potential employers can see what you will be able to do for them.

I think randomly blasting attorneys with your resume is a quick way to get a collage of rejection letters. Targeted applications, even if unsolicited, can be effective.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:10 pm

gwuorbust wrote:Just generally a good job hunting tip that I've figured out.

You should focus on what you can do for the potential employer. I know that this is not easy. You might be thinking, what can I do? Remember, while you are looking for a job, an employer considers another employee a big cost. An employer will only consider hiring you if you fill a need. So you need to figure out what need you can say you can fill.

A good practice is to start by identifying potential practice areas that you think are growing at small and mid sized firms in your area. Perhaps you find this out through a newspaper article, informational interviews, or through the grapevine. You can then leverage that in an email by stating how you can help that firm by doing YYY, QQQ, and ZZZ. While only a little different from saying "I would like employment in XXX area and here is why I'm qualified," I think it makes a world of difference. Using this tactic potential employers can see what you will be able to do for them.

I think randomly blasting attorneys with your resume is a quick way to get a collage of rejection letters. Targeted applications, even if unsolicited, can be effective.

Thank you, I'll keep this in mind. It's easy to forget to remember how you can help the employer. I'm assuming this is for cold email attorneys?

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20160810
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby 20160810 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:00 am

gwuorbust wrote:Just generally a good job hunting tip that I've figured out.

You should focus on what you can do for the potential employer. I know that this is not easy. You might be thinking, what can I do? Remember, while you are looking for a job, an employer considers another employee a big cost. An employer will only consider hiring you if you fill a need. So you need to figure out what need you can say you can fill.

A good practice is to start by identifying potential practice areas that you think are growing at small and mid sized firms in your area. Perhaps you find this out through a newspaper article, informational interviews, or through the grapevine. You can then leverage that in an email by stating how you can help that firm by doing YYY, QQQ, and ZZZ. While only a little different from saying "I would like employment in XXX area and here is why I'm qualified," I think it makes a world of difference. Using this tactic potential employers can see what you will be able to do for them.

I think randomly blasting attorneys with your resume is a quick way to get a collage of rejection letters. Targeted applications, even if unsolicited, can be effective.

Not to shit in your oatmeal here, but as a 3L it's unlikely you can be of much use to one practice group unless you have some pretty exceptional work experience.

adonai
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby adonai » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:38 am

BlueLotus wrote:Rising 2L here, but all these suicidal posts are scaring the crap outta me as I have a depressive personality to begin with. :(

Since, like many law students, I connect so much of my self-worth to career/professional success, I can definitely see myself feeling that way if I end up jerbless...

For me, it has slowly evolved to the point where I would rather be successful IN the job I'm in, rather than obtaining a successful job itself. I'd rather be respected and admired for my ability and expertise rather than some job title/firm/govt prestige. Then again, it has changed to this because at this point everything has sailed and I'm pretty much open to anything as long as it leads to a decent job.

Cyne
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Cyne » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:36 am

Random fun fact: while perusing this thread today I saw an ad for "America's Top LLM!"

Lol. Would have been funnier if it was Cooley. That's one predatory ad to be popping up in the Vale.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:38 am

a male human wrote:Let me know if topic is not appropriate for post-bar job hunters.

I am thinking about asking people I've networked with over the past 2 years and was wondering how I should word my email. The basic structure would be:

- Just graduated, took the bar, starting job search
- This is my practice area of interest
- Do you know if anyone's hiring
- Here's my resume in case you want to forward it
- [Ask if they know anyone who would be good to speak with?]
- [Ask to meet and catch up? Or no?]

How does that look? I don't want to come off as I'm only contacting them out of the blue for possible job opportunities. Has anyone had success asking their network of people? Any tips? Thanks!


I have used this method myself and it has been pretty good. Check it out: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 23&t=87297

Kind of cater it to your job search stage.




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