The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:28 pm

hiima3L wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Feeling shitty today. Had an interview last week where the interviewers were really excited during and after the interview and talked about how quickly they needed me, when would I start, etc. It really sounded like I was going to get a follow up offer.

Now I haven't heard from them since.

The way they were talking, I thought the offer would come the evening of, or the next day.

I went from being elated, thinking I had a job. Now, just so crappy and worthless. And I hate the high to low swing, it feels bipolar.

Ugh. Wish the interview never happened at all.


Unless they tell you "we'll be getting back to you by X date" and X date has passed, don't worry. Hiring decisions, regardless of the employer, can take days to months.


Thank you for the advice. I've worked to relax myself about the opportunity... If I never hear back, well, I am happy for the interview experience, and if I hear back, better late than never!

That said, should I follow up with the firm via email or wait the course?

hiima3L
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hiima3L » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
hiima3L wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Feeling shitty today. Had an interview last week where the interviewers were really excited during and after the interview and talked about how quickly they needed me, when would I start, etc. It really sounded like I was going to get a follow up offer.

Now I haven't heard from them since.

The way they were talking, I thought the offer would come the evening of, or the next day.

I went from being elated, thinking I had a job. Now, just so crappy and worthless. And I hate the high to low swing, it feels bipolar.

Ugh. Wish the interview never happened at all.


Unless they tell you "we'll be getting back to you by X date" and X date has passed, don't worry. Hiring decisions, regardless of the employer, can take days to months.


Thank you for the advice. I've worked to relax myself about the opportunity... If I never hear back, well, I am happy for the interview experience, and if I hear back, better late than never!

That said, should I follow up with the firm via email or wait the course?


I don't think there's anything wrong with following up if it's been a while and you have a good reason to. It's kind of awkward otherwise. I wouldn't mind it if I were an employer, but I know it can rub people the wrong way.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:50 pm

Thanks - follow ups feel so awkward, I've just always wondered if they are viewed as awkward. I always hear from older folks, though, that it shows initiative and all that... But I don't know, surely it can sometimes be a "trying too hard" move that turns people off.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks - follow ups feel so awkward, I've just always wondered if they are viewed as awkward. I always hear from older folks, though, that it shows initiative and all that... But I don't know, surely it can sometimes be a "trying too hard" move that turns people off.


I think a polite inquiry after a reasonable time has passed is fine. Just don't come across a anxious. Aim for enthusiastic. Like, I enjoyed meeting you and I was wondering what your timeframe is for making a decision . ( not those words. I'm not good at giving word for wod advice.

Don't be afraid to follow up. People get busy.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:22 pm

I interviewed in early July with a fed gov attorney position. Interview was obtained through a recommendation from my prof. Still waiting to hear back, but I did follow up once a few weeks ago and again last week, basically asking if they can make a decision soon. I think it's ok to do so. This is our lives we're talking about. We all need jobs, we can't wait forever.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:04 am

I would definitely follow-up. It comes across less as pushy and more as interested. Think about it: employers are less concerned with someone being overly aggressive and more concerned with someone who doesn't really want the job, only takes it out of desperation, and is looking to hop as soon as something better comes along. Follow-ups assuage this fear. And this time, ask for (1) when you can expect to hear back, (2) when the latest is that you can expect to hear back, and (3) if it is okay for you to follow-up again after that second date has passed. I would strongly suggest you check out the Interview section of What Color is Your Parachute? It helped me a lot. I think younger people like us (and I know I was this way) are always concerned about demonstrating that we can follow protocol, in this case not looking too pushy. But older people (those who have been in management) realize that the risk is worth it because you absolutely have to show enthusiasm for the job. Look at it this way, if nothing else, you demonstrate to the employer that you are pro-active because much of job success is not letting things fall through the cracks, whether it was your inadvertence or someone else's.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:08 am

Applied for a clerkship where I was told the judge only had about 30 applications. I'm worried about my self-esteem when I get rejected. (I'm worried about my self-esteem NOW for assuming I'll be rejected). Do people in here have experience applying for non-legal things from Human Rights jobs or similar databases?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:27 am

Anyone know about going from a magistrate judge to Big Law? I'm finding that often firms don't give credit or bonuses to magistrate clerks. That makes me worried that firms won't care about that, and I'll be in this same position next year.

Also, does anyone know what's up with the BYU website, and more importantly, how to get access now?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:39 pm

Well, place I was hoping for just said no. A day before the bar exam. I spent some time on a bridge tonight. I don't feel good.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Well, place I was hoping for just said no. A day before the bar exam. I spent some time on a bridge tonight. I don't feel good.


This sounds serious. You don't want to die over a job. You need to pull it together and take the bar tomorrow. Remember you just need to pass.

You have to stay strong. You have to persevere.

But if you are having strong thoughts of suicide, man, get help. Get counseling. Life is worth living and you never know what good things are around the corner.

My family member committed suicide just a few days later her son got into the college they had been dreaming of- but she was gone. He didnt have her to share it with and she had been his biggest supporter.

You have to give life a chance. You can work out these issues - yes it is very hard, it isn't easy- but things can get better. Don't give up. Stay strong me mentally with disciplined thoughts as best you can.

Take the bar and do the best you can. Don't let this mental state keep you from the exam.

No one knows what the future holds, don't give up on it.

And remember you are not alone. It isn't your fault. When you are down it can seem like no one cares, but you have a whole thread of Internet strangers who care about you, support you and want to lift you up. Imagine how your friends and family feel. Don't discount them.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:Well, place I was hoping for just said no. A day before the bar exam. I spent some time on a bridge tonight. I don't feel good.


If you need a place to vent, man, we're here for you at the very least. Or maybe you can call up some non-law friends who can listen and sympathize. Do anything you need to unload the stress and anxiety.

Use whatever you need as an outlet, but don't kill yourself.

I've had a close friend commit suicide, and I saw it coming, but I never brought it up. I just never took it seriously. We're here for it if you need, and look to loved ones too.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:Well, place I was hoping for just said no. A day before the bar exam. I spent some time on a bridge tonight. I don't feel good.


I'm so sorry to hear this. And for them to do it right before the bar is tough. They should be arrested for such piss poor behavior. You will pass the bar though- I know it! Plus you'll find the job that is right for you. Like others said, we're here if you need us for support. So many of us are in the same boat and we get what you're going through.

ETA: Sorry, I hit anon by accident- this is aliens.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:22 pm

So I just got about 5 invitations for 3L OCI at a T20 - one with a BigLaw Firm. How terrible/decent are my chances? I'll be going into them with no offer from this summer.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So I just got about 5 invitations for 3L OCI at a T20 - one with a BigLaw Firm. How terrible/decent are my chances? I'll be going into them with no offer from this summer.


At this stage the worst it can be is interview practice. Try network with some people from the firm and/or past summers from your school.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:43 pm

No firms in either of my target markets are coming to OCI :/

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:51 pm

chrisbru wrote:No firms in either of my target markets are coming to OCI :/

Can you target other markets?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:19 pm

bk1 wrote:
chrisbru wrote:No firms in either of my target markets are coming to OCI :/

Can you target other markets?


Well... Yeah, theoretically. But I don't particularly want to, especially since they are two of the three highest placing markets out of my school. And my SO is applying to grad schools, so I really don't want to be more than a few hours away from her (and preferably in the same city).

I'm going to apply widely, and am not skipping out on OCI because of this... But I just wanted to be a little disappointed that my CSO could only manage to bring 6 firms to early bird OCI, 1 of which I am not eligible for (hard sciences only), and none of which are in my preferred markets.

Fall OCI is almost as bad... 8 firms, none in my preferred markets. I guess it just reinforces my belief that I really have to do this on my own.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:28 pm

]
chrisbru wrote:And my SO is applying to grad schools, so I really don't want to be more than a few hours away from her (and preferably in the same city).

Ah, gotcha.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Applied for a clerkship where I was told the judge only had about 30 applications. I'm worried about my self-esteem when I get rejected. (I'm worried about my self-esteem NOW for assuming I'll be rejected). Do people in here have experience applying for non-legal things from Human Rights jobs or similar databases?

I had a couple interviews for non-legal jobs for which I had relevant experience and a great cover letter. Get ready to spend almost the entire interview convincing them that this is in fact the exact job that you want and you have absolutely no interest in practicing law. I know that there are JDs and attorneys in non-legal jobs so it's not impossible but your narrative has to be on point. Here's hoping you get the clerkship and this becomes a non-issue, but good luck either way!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:26 am

Still unemployed. I am nothing if not consistent.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
hiima3L wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Feeling shitty today. Had an interview last week where the interviewers were really excited during and after the interview and talked about how quickly they needed me, when would I start, etc. It really sounded like I was going to get a follow up offer.

Now I haven't heard from them since.

The way they were talking, I thought the offer would come the evening of, or the next day.

I went from being elated, thinking I had a job. Now, just so crappy and worthless. And I hate the high to low swing, it feels bipolar.

Ugh. Wish the interview never happened at all.


Unless they tell you "we'll be getting back to you by X date" and X date has passed, don't worry. Hiring decisions, regardless of the employer, can take days to months.


Thank you for the advice. I've worked to relax myself about the opportunity... If I never hear back, well, I am happy for the interview experience, and if I hear back, better late than never!

That said, should I follow up with the firm via email or wait the course?


I didn't follow up yet, but did receive an e-mail last night saying that the firm is making decisions regarding the hiring process this week. It had a tone of "just hang on." It came without prompting.

I'm guessing this is neutral. I've stopped looking too much into anything anymore.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby aliens » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
hiima3L wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Feeling shitty today. Had an interview last week where the interviewers were really excited during and after the interview and talked about how quickly they needed me, when would I start, etc. It really sounded like I was going to get a follow up offer.

Now I haven't heard from them since.

The way they were talking, I thought the offer would come the evening of, or the next day.

I went from being elated, thinking I had a job. Now, just so crappy and worthless. And I hate the high to low swing, it feels bipolar.

Ugh. Wish the interview never happened at all.


Unless they tell you "we'll be getting back to you by X date" and X date has passed, don't worry. Hiring decisions, regardless of the employer, can take days to months.


Thank you for the advice. I've worked to relax myself about the opportunity... If I never hear back, well, I am happy for the interview experience, and if I hear back, better late than never!

That said, should I follow up with the firm via email or wait the course?


I didn't follow up yet, but did receive an e-mail last night saying that the firm is making decisions regarding the hiring process this week. It had a tone of "just hang on." It came without prompting.

I'm guessing this is neutral. I've stopped looking too much into anything anymore.


I think that's positive. Employers don't usually send out "hang on" e-mails unprompted. At a minimum, they clearly want you to tell them if you receive an offer elsewhere. At least that's how I'd interpret it. I have a feeling this will be your job!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sirpartner82 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:03 pm

As a small-firm partner, understand that we sometimes run ads for associates just to gauge the level of desperation out there, and also to "jaw-drop" at the sheer quantity (and quality) of resumes that come pouring in like a monsoon.

Any non-Biglaw firm paying a newbie anything more than $10 to $12 an hour is crazy. The supply-demand metrics are so absurdly in favor of the employers it's downright comical.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FeelTheHeat » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:09 pm

sirpartner82 wrote:As a small-firm partner, understand that we sometimes run ads for associates just to gauge the level of desperation out there, and also to "jaw-drop" at the sheer quantity (and quality) of resumes that come pouring in like a monsoon.

Any non-Biglaw firm paying a newbie anything more than $10 to $12 an hour is crazy. The supply-demand metrics are so absurdly in favor of the employers it's downright comical.


Very rarely are people so forthright about what pieces of shit they are.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby LSATmakesMeNeurotic » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:20 pm

sirpartner82 wrote:As a small-firm partner, understand that we sometimes run ads for associates just to gauge the level of desperation out there, and also to "jaw-drop" at the sheer quantity (and quality) of resumes that come pouring in like a monsoon.

Any non-Biglaw firm paying a newbie anything more than $10 to $12 an hour is crazy. The supply-demand metrics are so absurdly in favor of the employers it's downright comical.


Wow. Thanks for allowing us to waste our time applying for a position that you have no intention of filling. It's not like we have several hundred other applications we could be writing. I know that resumes get thrown in the trash more often than not, but admitting that you like to run ads just for the shits and giggles... :|




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