The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So... What's the policy on reneging on offers? Say I have two market preferences, and it depends on where the SO gets into grad school. If I get an offer and accept it, and the SO gets into the opposite market, and then I manage to snag an offer in that market instead (I realize this is a far-fetched concept), is there going to be some significant repercussions of reneging on accepting that earlier offer?


I am the anon with the offer. I should add that the two potential jobs are in different states in completely different markets. Any bridge burning would be very limited as if I reneged I'd be leaving the area.

That is a long winded way to say, follow your SO if that happens and that's what you want.


Thanks all. Despite how kind of pathetic that sounds, at least I know there are options.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So... What's the policy on reneging on offers? Say I have two market preferences, and it depends on where the SO gets into grad school. If I get an offer and accept it, and the SO gets into the opposite market, and then I manage to snag an offer in that market instead (I realize this is a far-fetched concept), is there going to be some significant repercussions of reneging on accepting that earlier offer?


I am the anon with the offer. I should add that the two potential jobs are in different states in completely different markets. Any bridge burning would be very limited as if I reneged I'd be leaving the area.

That is a long winded way to say, follow your SO if that happens and that's what you want.

This is true too. The closer (geographically, as well as other ways such as area of law, type of firm/company, etc) the two places are the more likely there is to be an issue. Even if the firms are in the same market, are the same size, and practice in the same type of law, the possible damage is likely minimal, but the point is that if they are far away and/or dissimilar then the possible harm is that much more remote and unlikely.

Definitely do what's right for you and your relationship.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:45 pm

bk1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So... What's the policy on reneging on offers? Say I have two market preferences, and it depends on where the SO gets into grad school. If I get an offer and accept it, and the SO gets into the opposite market, and then I manage to snag an offer in that market instead (I realize this is a far-fetched concept), is there going to be some significant repercussions of reneging on accepting that earlier offer?


I am the anon with the offer. I should add that the two potential jobs are in different states in completely different markets. Any bridge burning would be very limited as if I reneged I'd be leaving the area.

That is a long winded way to say, follow your SO if that happens and that's what you want.

This is true too. The closer (geographically, as well as other ways such as area of law, type of firm/company, etc) the two places are the more likely there is to be an issue. Even if the firms are in the same market, are the same size, and practice in the same type of law, the possible damage is likely minimal, but the point is that if they are far away and/or dissimilar then the possible harm is that much more remote and unlikely.

Definitely do what's right for you and your relationship.


Unless of course the first offer is for a judicial clerkship. Don't renege on that.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:15 pm

chrisbru wrote:Unless of course the first offer is for a judicial clerkship. Don't renege on that.

Eh, if reneging on a judicial clerkship is best for you and your relationship then I say do that. People overblow the damage caused by a reneged clerkship imo.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:38 pm

bk1 wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Unless of course the first offer is for a judicial clerkship. Don't renege on that.

Eh, if reneging on a judicial clerkship is best for you and your relationship then I say do that. People overblow the damage caused by a reneged clerkship imo.


Maybe you're right. I guess I mostly just meant that 1-2 years at a judicial clerkship is manageable and will put you in a better position afterwards than where you are right after 3L usually.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:31 pm

Would you take a job at a small tax and estates shop for 45k or get a Tax LLM from your JD school (15-20 range) for $1000, which is the price they offered to recent grads? Consider that your loans are 175K+ already, and that taking out more loan money only helps in the long run by having a higher threshold of income to hit before you get kicked out of IBR. Thus, the realistic cost of the LLM is 35% X [$1,000 + COL] 25 years down the road (let's say $7k), and the foregone year of experience and year of IBR payments. The gain is an LLM for roughly $7k, and the opportunity to find some place to work part time during the year, gaining experience and possibly money. Obviously, you want to do tax work as well.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Would you take a job at a small tax and estates shop for 45k or get a Tax LLM from your JD school (15-20 range) for $1000, which is the price they offered to recent grads? Consider that your loans are 175K+ already, and that taking out more loan money only helps in the long run by having a higher threshold of income to hit before you get kicked out of IBR. Thus, the realistic cost of the LLM is 35% X [$1,000 + COL] 25 years down the road (let's say $7k), and the foregone year of experience and year of IBR payments. The gain is an LLM for roughly $7k, and the opportunity to find some place to work part time during the year, gaining experience and possibly money. Obviously, you want to do tax work as well.

The job and it doesn't seem close. It seems like really wishful thinking to think you're going to get kicked out of IBR based on your income (your loans are growing enormously while you're in IBR). I don't see how a random tax LLM is worth roughly $15-20k (CoL included) in debt and $45k in foregone income when you already have a job in hand. I guess with IBR the debt doesn't matter but it seems risky to me to forgo the job in hand.

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Postby Another » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:27 am

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Last edited by Another on Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:25 pm

I just got 0 interviews at the CCBA job fair despite fitting the criteria for one of the firms to a T. You can welcome me to the Vale officially now.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:29 am

Not sure if this is where I should post this, but D.N.M. just posted for a term clerk (fed magistrate) in Albuquerque:

http://www.nmcourt.fed.us/web/DCDOCS/dcindex.html

The ad doesn't expressly say, but I'm pretty sure they want someone for this fall (based on what I know about chambers and the very short turnaround on the ad). Though you'd need to confirm that with chambers - don't hold me to it.

Also, Judge Molzen is incredibly nice.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:50 pm

hopkins23 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Would you take a job at a small tax and estates shop for 45k or get a Tax LLM from your JD school (15-20 range) for $1000, which is the price they offered to recent grads? Consider that your loans are 175K+ already, and that taking out more loan money only helps in the long run by having a higher threshold of income to hit before you get kicked out of IBR. Thus, the realistic cost of the LLM is 35% X [$1,000 + COL] 25 years down the road (let's say $7k), and the foregone year of experience and year of IBR payments. The gain is an LLM for roughly $7k, and the opportunity to find some place to work part time during the year, gaining experience and possibly money. Obviously, you want to do tax work as well.


Job: ten times out of ten.

If you really want to get an LLM, can you do part time, nights? Honestly, an LLM isn't really going to help you that much in that range, even in tax.


mAYBE do the LLM at night. Otherwise, GETTING ACTUAL REAL-WORLD WORK EXPERIENCE WILL TRUMP THAT LLM. Hell, you could probably apply to the Big 4 firms after a year.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:29 pm

Just in case anyone wants a good laugh, I can tell you about the world's worst interview. On a whim I saw that a campaign wanted an intern, and since I am unemployed anyway, I sent over my resume, figuring I could do that instead of sitting at home all day. I'm studying for the bar and I don't care too much if I get this, so I didn't prepare at all.

But here comes the bad part. My hot yoga class ran really late and since there are no clocks in there I did not notice, so by the time I got home, I had the option of (1) showering but not blow drying my hair; or (2) not showering but because it's hot yoga, I looked horrible. So, I quickly shower and try to pull my soaking wet hair into such a tight bun that you can't see it's wet over skype. The connection constantly broke up, leading me to accidentally keep talking over the interviewer when I thought she had stopped. The only 2 questions she asked were "tell me about yourself" (which I am never good at answering) and "do you have any questions for me" - which I did not because I wasn't going to waste time preparing for an unpaid internship while I should be studying. Plus, the advertisement did not say which campaign it actually was. Overall... I thought it was comical how badly it went.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:46 pm

Feeling shitty today. Had an interview last week where the interviewers were really excited during and after the interview and talked about how quickly they needed me, when would I start, etc. It really sounded like I was going to get a follow up offer.

Now I haven't heard from them since.

The way they were talking, I thought the offer would come the evening of, or the next day.

I went from being elated, thinking I had a job. Now, just so crappy and worthless. And I hate the high to low swing, it feels bipolar.

Ugh. Wish the interview never happened at all.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Feeling shitty today. Had an interview last week where the interviewers were really excited during and after the interview and talked about how quickly they needed me, when would I start, etc. It really sounded like I was going to get a follow up offer.

Now I haven't heard from them since.

The way they were talking, I thought the offer would come the evening of, or the next day.

I went from being elated, thinking I had a job. Now, just so crappy and worthless. And I hate the high to low swing, it feels bipolar.

Ugh. Wish the interview never happened at all.

Wait. How long has it been? This is only Monday. Try to stay calm if you can. If you don't hear from them after a few more days, email or call.

Edit to add: I understand how you feel. Just I don't know anyplace anywhere that hired a person in one or two days.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Hitman-Actual » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:45 am

What's up brothers. I'm in the same sinking ship, but I'm learning to laugh about it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby aliens » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:Feeling shitty today. Had an interview last week where the interviewers were really excited during and after the interview and talked about how quickly they needed me, when would I start, etc. It really sounded like I was going to get a follow up offer.

Now I haven't heard from them since.

The way they were talking, I thought the offer would come the evening of, or the next day.

I went from being elated, thinking I had a job. Now, just so crappy and worthless. And I hate the high to low swing, it feels bipolar.

Ugh. Wish the interview never happened at all.


The highs and lows of the job search are probably the worst part. One day I'm feeling great- I'm going to get that awesome job. The next day, without any rejection from an employer, I'm down and sure no one will hire me ever. Hang in there! Oh and don't write the employer off yet. Attorneys do actually get busy and cannot get to hiring when they need to. And maybe they know they want to hire you, but are figuring out an offer. Good luck!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:Feeling shitty today. Had an interview last week where the interviewers were really excited during and after the interview and talked about how quickly they needed me, when would I start, etc. It really sounded like I was going to get a follow up offer.

Now I haven't heard from them since.

The way they were talking, I thought the offer would come the evening of, or the next day.

I went from being elated, thinking I had a job. Now, just so crappy and worthless. And I hate the high to low swing, it feels bipolar.

Ugh. Wish the interview never happened at all.


Just have to wait it out. I had two interviews last week, one went really well and the other one not so hot as it was my first interview in over a year. The not so hot one then told me at the end of the interview that they wanted a list of references and asked that if I made it to the next round, would I be able to come in again before the bar. I haven't heard from either, but I don't think that means I'm already passed over. My references have yet to be contacted, and I don't think he'd make it a point to say make sure you send me those references when you get home at the conclusion of the interview and then not call them. You couldn't start at a firm for at least two weeks at this point, and many assume you are going to want at least a little break after the bar.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby akili » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:34 am

I think I'm officially joining.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:01 am

You know what's really stinking frustrating about job searching???? I'm talking to attorneys, just networking, all that jazz. An attorney on their own starts telling me about a possible opening at their firm and that they want to meet with me. After that meeting, they e-mail me for dates of availability. We set a date. It gets pushed for scheduling reasons. Ok fine. Then we e-mail more about dates. We never get another date scheduled for their failure to commit. Ok fine, you're not interested. YET THEY STILL KEEP CONTACTING ME ABOUT IT. This has been going one since March.

How can I politely end this? It's obvious that they don't really want to meet with me or this would have happened already. I don't want to burn a bridge, but I can't keep getting my hopes up like this. Sadly, I have had this happen with quite a few firms/attorneys.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:You know what's really stinking frustrating about job searching???? I'm talking to attorneys, just networking, all that jazz. An attorney on their own starts telling me about a possible opening at their firm and that they want to meet with me. After that meeting, they e-mail me for dates of availability. We set a date. It gets pushed for scheduling reasons. Ok fine. Then we e-mail more about dates. We never get another date scheduled for their failure to commit. Ok fine, you're not interested. YET THEY STILL KEEP CONTACTING ME ABOUT IT. This has been going one since March.

How can I politely end this? It's obvious that they don't really want to meet with me or this would have happened already. I don't want to burn a bridge, but I can't keep getting my hopes up like this. Sadly, I have had this happen with quite a few firms/attorneys.

I actually had a friend who was in conversations with a firm from about February until the end of August, when she finally got an offer. Her first meeting with anyone from the firm was in February, and after that I think she had something like three more interviews spread out over that whole period. Part of the delay was she had to meet with a particular partner who kept having to go out of town and rescheduling. She always had to push them to set the next time/date, but they eventually did, and she got the job. I'm not saying it will always work, but if they're still contacting you, I would keep trying - they could just have completely screwed up schedules and not be very organized about meeting.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:19 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You know what's really stinking frustrating about job searching???? I'm talking to attorneys, just networking, all that jazz. An attorney on their own starts telling me about a possible opening at their firm and that they want to meet with me. After that meeting, they e-mail me for dates of availability. We set a date. It gets pushed for scheduling reasons. Ok fine. Then we e-mail more about dates. We never get another date scheduled for their failure to commit. Ok fine, you're not interested. YET THEY STILL KEEP CONTACTING ME ABOUT IT. This has been going one since March.

How can I politely end this? It's obvious that they don't really want to meet with me or this would have happened already. I don't want to burn a bridge, but I can't keep getting my hopes up like this. Sadly, I have had this happen with quite a few firms/attorneys.

I actually had a friend who was in conversations with a firm from about February until the end of August, when she finally got an offer. Her first meeting with anyone from the firm was in February, and after that I think she had something like three more interviews spread out over that whole period. Part of the delay was she had to meet with a particular partner who kept having to go out of town and rescheduling. She always had to push them to set the next time/date, but they eventually did, and she got the job. I'm not saying it will always work, but if they're still contacting you, I would keep trying - they could just have completely screwed up schedules and not be very organized about meeting.


That's actually good to know that sometimes there is success in these situations. They just contacted me today again. I have an open offer pending (though I probably won't accept) so I am trying to use the open offer to spur them to get me in there and make me an offer. We'll see if it's successful.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:17 pm

aliens wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Feeling shitty today. Had an interview last week where the interviewers were really excited during and after the interview and talked about how quickly they needed me, when would I start, etc. It really sounded like I was going to get a follow up offer.

Now I haven't heard from them since.

The way they were talking, I thought the offer would come the evening of, or the next day.

I went from being elated, thinking I had a job. Now, just so crappy and worthless. And I hate the high to low swing, it feels bipolar.

Ugh. Wish the interview never happened at all.


The highs and lows of the job search are probably the worst part. One day I'm feeling great- I'm going to get that awesome job. The next day, without any rejection from an employer, I'm down and sure no one will hire me ever. Hang in there! Oh and don't write the employer off yet. Attorneys do actually get busy and cannot get to hiring when they need to. And maybe they know they want to hire you, but are figuring out an offer. Good luck!


Thank you!

I know that being understanding about time constraints is the rational response - but it's SO freaking hard to avoid the swings... It is part desperation for the job and part just feeling horrible about employment generally. It's wanting to just sleep until an answer comes from someone, no matter whether it is yes or no. My brain is screaming "tell me already" every second of the day and it is difficult to focus on anything else...

I wish no one had to deal with the swings, but it is nice to find solidarity, so thank you to above responders. You've made one person out there feel an inch better in an otherwise shit situation :)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hiima3L » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Feeling shitty today. Had an interview last week where the interviewers were really excited during and after the interview and talked about how quickly they needed me, when would I start, etc. It really sounded like I was going to get a follow up offer.

Now I haven't heard from them since.

The way they were talking, I thought the offer would come the evening of, or the next day.

I went from being elated, thinking I had a job. Now, just so crappy and worthless. And I hate the high to low swing, it feels bipolar.

Ugh. Wish the interview never happened at all.


Unless they tell you "we'll be getting back to you by X date" and X date has passed, don't worry. Hiring decisions, regardless of the employer, can take days to months.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You know what's really stinking frustrating about job searching???? I'm talking to attorneys, just networking, all that jazz. An attorney on their own starts telling me about a possible opening at their firm and that they want to meet with me. After that meeting, they e-mail me for dates of availability. We set a date. It gets pushed for scheduling reasons. Ok fine. Then we e-mail more about dates. We never get another date scheduled for their failure to commit. Ok fine, you're not interested. YET THEY STILL KEEP CONTACTING ME ABOUT IT. This has been going one since March.

How can I politely end this? It's obvious that they don't really want to meet with me or this would have happened already. I don't want to burn a bridge, but I can't keep getting my hopes up like this. Sadly, I have had this happen with quite a few firms/attorneys.


I am this anon poster. So after I told them I have another offer, they didn't want to interview me after all. So just a courtesy interview basically.

On another note, yet another drag their feet firm contacted me today for an interview next week. I don't have high hopes of it going anywhere, but this interview is much more convenient location-wise to attend. So I'm not going to tell them about my open offer yet.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:15 pm

Wow I hit a real low point today. Rejected from doing volunteer work. Yes I'm not good enough to work for free. LOL. Yeah I choose the wrong profession. :(




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