The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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SDSC
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby SDSC » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:27 am

I saw a job posting today for a 0-2 year career associate (i.e., non-partner track) in the investment management group at Ropes & Gray (Boston/NY offices). The posting mentioned $85-90k/yr + bonus. Seems like a pretty good gig. Thought I'd pass the lead along....

SDSC
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby SDSC » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:42 am

SDSC wrote:I saw a job posting today for a 0-2 year career associate (i.e., non-partner track) in the investment management group at Ropes & Gray (Boston/NY offices). The posting mentioned $85-90k/yr + bonus. Seems like a pretty good gig. Thought I'd pass the lead along....


More details for those interested:

Corporate Department: Investment Management Group – Boston/New York

The Investment Management group of Ropes & Gray is seeking a Career Associate. Working under the supervision of senior attorneys in the group, the Career Associate will assist with the group’s registered investment company clients, with a focus on preparing and reviewing documentation, including registration statements, annual reports, proxy statements and other SEC filings; assisting with preparation of materials for board of directors meetings; and assisting with review of compliance policies and procedures.

Open to J.D.s with strong academic credentials and 0-2 years of experience (knowledge of the Investment Company Act and other federal securities laws relevant to registered investment companies a plus, but not required). Industry experience and/or coursework in financial services law and regulation helpful. Competitive salary offered. (The salary range is from $85,000-$90,000 plus a bonus). Bar admission or plans to sit for the July bar examination required. We are not accepting submissions from search firms.



Essential capabilities:

-Strong verbal and written communication and interpersonal skills
-Must be flexible in order to respond quickly and positively to shifting demands and opportunities; ability to work under tight deadlines and handle multiple, detailed tasks
-Ability to plan, organize and/or carry out multiple related activities simultaneously
-Ability to work in a multi-office / multi-time zone environment

Link: http://www.ropesgrayhiring.com/pages/join/positions.htm

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:35 pm

OP with the SO question - thanks all! I came up with a mixed answer that's mostly truth and some "love for the city" speak and I'm just going to be confident in delivery... And hope that works.

The most messed up thing about the interview (or about me and this interview) is that my heart won't stop racing because I think I don't deserve it. After all this time, I'm just wondering why did this particular firm decide to choose me for an interview? I feel underqualified is what I am saying.

How I have been treated (rejected) by firms in the past has really done a number on my self esteem. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm in awe of having gotten an interview.

I just keep telling myself that if my résumé didn't pass muster, these guys would never waste their time talking to me. I mean this is an honest chance at a job, right?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP with the SO question - thanks all! I came up with a mixed answer that's mostly truth and some "love for the city" speak and I'm just going to be confident in delivery... And hope that works.

The most messed up thing about the interview (or about me and this interview) is that my heart won't stop racing because I think I don't deserve it. After all this time, I'm just wondering why did this particular firm decide to choose me for an interview? I feel underqualified is what I am saying.

How I have been treated (rejected) by firms in the past has really done a number on my self esteem. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm in awe of having gotten an interview.

I just keep telling myself that if my résumé didn't pass muster, these guys would never waste their time talking to me. I mean this is an honest chance at a job, right?

OF COURSE it is. People are way too busy to take the time talking to people they're sure they wouldn't hire. Don't take the previous rejections personally - it's just a function of the economy; employers have to weed out applicants, and they can pick fairly random, arbitrary shit to do so. Just because one employer decided you weren't right for one job (even if this has happened a number of times) doesn't say anything about your overall strength as a candidate.

It's a really subjective process, which, on the one hand, is depressing because I think most law students/grads are the type who want to think that if they do everything "right," success will follow. But on the other hand, it's sort of liberating, because it really is about them, and not you; for instance, if they didn't hire you because the managing partner's nephew wanted a job, you're still out a job, which sucks, but it's not about your qualifications - it's about something over which you had no control and it's not a comment on you, except that you weren't the managing partner's nephew.

There are all kinds of stories of people getting tons of rejections, but then they get the one job, and they're brilliant at it and everyone loves them and they thrive. So don't feel underqualified - you can TOTALLY do this.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:05 pm

If an attorney said at the interview Monday 7/8 that he "hoped to have the process wrapped up in 10 days or so" with a planned August start, at what point can I call to check in?

In my head if I don't hear by Friday 7/19 then it is a no go, but I would still like to follow up. Studying for the bar while waiting to hear back from the first interview in months is tough. Managing, but it definitely affects focus.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If an attorney said at the interview Monday 7/8 that he "hoped to have the process wrapped up in 10 days or so" with a planned August start, at what point can I call to check in?

In my head if I don't hear by Friday 7/19 then it is a no go, but I would still like to follow up. Studying for the bar while waiting to hear back from the first interview in months is tough. Managing, but it definitely affects focus.

I would think it would be fair to check back in 7/22 or after? I mean, it may be a no-go if you don't hear by then, but "hoped" and "planned" is kind of tentative, and things can always come up to delay, so you never know.

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snowpeach06
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby snowpeach06 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP with the SO question - thanks all! I came up with a mixed answer that's mostly truth and some "love for the city" speak and I'm just going to be confident in delivery... And hope that works.

The most messed up thing about the interview (or about me and this interview) is that my heart won't stop racing because I think I don't deserve it. After all this time, I'm just wondering why did this particular firm decide to choose me for an interview? I feel underqualified is what I am saying.

How I have been treated (rejected) by firms in the past has really done a number on my self esteem. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm in awe of having gotten an interview.

I just keep telling myself that if my résumé didn't pass muster, these guys would never waste their time talking to me. I mean this is an honest chance at a job, right?

I've gotten jobs I don't feel the least bit qualified for. Don't worry so much and good luck!

Anyway, god, I'm checking my e-mail constantly because I'm waiting to see if I'm getting a call-back for this fellowship. I know yesterday was their last day of interviews, and they hope to have all three rounds by the middle of August, so I'm assuming call back news has to come fairly soon - like this week.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:30 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

aliens
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby aliens » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:If an attorney said at the interview Monday 7/8 that he "hoped to have the process wrapped up in 10 days or so" with a planned August start, at what point can I call to check in?

In my head if I don't hear by Friday 7/19 then it is a no go, but I would still like to follow up. Studying for the bar while waiting to hear back from the first interview in months is tough. Managing, but it definitely affects focus.


I'd find a way to follow up that gives them some additional information if possible. Like a new responsibility or another writing sample. If that's not possible, then I'd just reiterate my interest and tell them I'm available for additional questions. I never assume it's a no go until I get the definite notice of it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:39 pm

Going for a psych eval on Monday. Realllllly hope something good comes from it. Just can't shake off these feelings of worthlessness and shame.

Thank God for my family. They're like, honestly, the reason I'm alive. :|

Sorry to get all JDU on y'all.

Gorki
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Gorki » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Going for a psych eval on Monday. Realllllly hope something good comes from it. Just can't shake off these feelings of worthlessness and shame.

Thank God for my family. They're like, honestly, the reason I'm alive. :|

Sorry to get all JDU on y'all.


Dude, best of luck. Lawl skoo and the legal profession can ruin the best of people. Keep your head up, and if possible keep us updated.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:50 am

Possible opportunity to have full time, permanent employment. I'm currently in a temporary position. Need some thoughts and advice:

- $30K year pay cut
- Compliance position, so JD preferred, non-attorney
- No idea on benefits because HR rep is on vacation

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:Possible opportunity to have full time, permanent employment. I'm currently in a temporary position. Need some thoughts and advice:

- $30K year pay cut
- Compliance position, so JD preferred, non-attorney
- No idea on benefits because HR rep is on vacation


You won't be disappointed by compliance - easy work, low pressure, likely decent chance for advancement and move into management type roles outside of compliance. JD may give you same positioning as MBAs which might be required for higher level management.

I worked a compliance gig before LS. Great hours too. Never got home later than 7 and realistically 5:30 on most days. Also possibly to lateral into staff attorney gigs.

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JenDarby
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Possible opportunity to have full time, permanent employment. I'm currently in a temporary position. Need some thoughts and advice:

- $30K year pay cut
- Compliance position, so JD preferred, non-attorney
- No idea on benefits because HR rep is on vacation

Where is the pay cut coming from? Do you have another option?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:23 pm

JenDarby wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Possible opportunity to have full time, permanent employment. I'm currently in a temporary position. Need some thoughts and advice:

- $30K year pay cut
- Compliance position, so JD preferred, non-attorney
- No idea on benefits because HR rep is on vacation

Where is the pay cut coming from? Do you have another option?



The pay cut is purely in salary. I am waiting to hear from a few other interviews, but no other offers. I should add that I'm not sure I even like the firm and the people. Though the compliance work is desirable.

On another note, I am waiting to hear back from the job that I really want. It's to join a practice group that currently has 3 people in it. Two of the 3 are on vacation right now for another week or so. Should I reach out to third and let them know I have a pending offer and when it expires? Normally I'd do this but I'm afraid that since they are vacation, they won't want to make the decision now and will tell me to go with the bird in hand. Thoughts on this?

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bk1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Possible opportunity to have full time, permanent employment. I'm currently in a temporary position. Need some thoughts and advice:

- $30K year pay cut
- Compliance position, so JD preferred, non-attorney
- No idea on benefits because HR rep is on vacation

What kind of position is your temp employment? When is it set to end?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:52 pm

bk1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Possible opportunity to have full time, permanent employment. I'm currently in a temporary position. Need some thoughts and advice:

- $30K year pay cut
- Compliance position, so JD preferred, non-attorney
- No idea on benefits because HR rep is on vacation

What kind of position is your temp employment? When is it set to end?


Federal Clerkship. End of August.

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bk1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Federal Clerkship. End of August.

So the pay cut really isn't that important to the decision, but what matters is the pay relative to other post-clerkship options (which at this point, no offense, is nothing). I'm assuming that you are accepting a position that starts after your clerkship and not one that cuts off your clerkship. Why not accept the compliance job now and then if the small firm comes through, renege on the compliance job and take the small firm job? If the small firm gets back to you before August then that makes it easiest, but even if not you may as well take the compliance job since you need something once your clerkship ends.

In any case, if you aren't jazzed about the compliance job, just accept it and keep looking. If you find something better before your clerkship ends, take that and renege. If you don't then start working in the compliance job and jump ship when you get something you like better.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:04 pm

bk1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Federal Clerkship. End of August.

So the pay cut really isn't that important to the decision, but what matters is the pay relative to other post-clerkship options (which at this point, no offense, is nothing). I'm assuming that you are accepting a position that starts after your clerkship and not one that cuts off your clerkship. Why not accept the compliance job now and then if the small firm comes through, renege on the compliance job and take the small firm job? If the small firm gets back to you before August then that makes it easiest, but even if not you may as well take the compliance job since you need something once your clerkship ends.

In any case, if you aren't jazzed about the compliance job, just accept it and keep looking. If you find something better before your clerkship ends, take that and renege. If you don't then start working in the compliance job and jump ship when you get something you like better.


I've seriously considered this. Though I feel bad about doing it. Also, you are right about the salary. It's not about the cut itself, but rather, what other offers I get.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Federal Clerkship. End of August.

So the pay cut really isn't that important to the decision, but what matters is the pay relative to other post-clerkship options (which at this point, no offense, is nothing). I'm assuming that you are accepting a position that starts after your clerkship and not one that cuts off your clerkship. Why not accept the compliance job now and then if the small firm comes through, renege on the compliance job and take the small firm job? If the small firm gets back to you before August then that makes it easiest, but even if not you may as well take the compliance job since you need something once your clerkship ends.

In any case, if you aren't jazzed about the compliance job, just accept it and keep looking. If you find something better before your clerkship ends, take that and renege. If you don't then start working in the compliance job and jump ship when you get something you like better.


I've seriously considered this. Though I feel bad about doing it. Also, you are right about the salary. It's not about the cut itself, but rather, what other offers I get.


Don't feel bad. It's an economic transaction. If they had to they would lay you off. Loyalty to employers is a weird norm that really has no place in today's economy.

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bk1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I've seriously considered this. Though I feel bad about doing it. Also, you are right about the salary. It's not about the cut itself, but rather, what other offers I get.


Don't feel bad. It's an economic transaction. If they had to they would lay you off. Loyalty to employers is a weird norm that really has no place in today's economy.

+1

If the firm had a sudden change of financial position they would not hesitate to rescind your offer. You should feel no hesitation in reneging if your position changes. Though you should consider the bridges that would burn and whether that would hurt you such that you would rather not renege.

I understand that it feels weird and wrong to a lot of people, but I think it's in your best interest to ignore that feeling and think about what is right for you in the long run. If the burnt bridges aren't that big a deal to you and an offer you like more comes along, you should jump ship even if it makes you feel a little guilty.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:01 pm

bk1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I've seriously considered this. Though I feel bad about doing it. Also, you are right about the salary. It's not about the cut itself, but rather, what other offers I get.


Don't feel bad. It's an economic transaction. If they had to they would lay you off. Loyalty to employers is a weird norm that really has no place in today's economy.

+1

If the firm had a sudden change of financial position they would not hesitate to rescind your offer. You should feel no hesitation in reneging if your position changes. Though you should consider the bridges that would burn and whether that would hurt you such that you would rather not renege.

I understand that it feels weird and wrong to a lot of people, but I think it's in your best interest to ignore that feeling and think about what is right for you in the long run. If the burnt bridges aren't that big a deal to you and an offer you like more comes along, you should jump ship even if it makes you feel a little guilty.



Thank you for this. It helps to realize it ultimately won't matter if I renege in the long run.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:25 pm

So... What's the policy on reneging on offers? Say I have two market preferences, and it depends on where the SO gets into grad school. If I get an offer and accept it, and the SO gets into the opposite market, and then I manage to snag an offer in that market instead (I realize this is a far-fetched concept), is there going to be some significant repercussions of reneging on accepting that earlier offer?

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bk1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So... What's the policy on reneging on offers? Say I have two market preferences, and it depends on where the SO gets into grad school. If I get an offer and accept it, and the SO gets into the opposite market, and then I manage to snag an offer in that market instead (I realize this is a far-fetched concept), is there going to be some significant repercussions of reneging on accepting that earlier offer?

That company/firm will likely be upset at you and you might be precluded from working for them again, but outside of that I doubt that there will be much blowback on you. There is always the chance that someone at the place will be vindictive about it, but that is exceedingly rare.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So... What's the policy on reneging on offers? Say I have two market preferences, and it depends on where the SO gets into grad school. If I get an offer and accept it, and the SO gets into the opposite market, and then I manage to snag an offer in that market instead (I realize this is a far-fetched concept), is there going to be some significant repercussions of reneging on accepting that earlier offer?


I am the anon with the offer. I should add that the two potential jobs are in different states in completely different markets. Any bridge burning would be very limited as if I reneged I'd be leaving the area.

That is a long winded way to say, follow your SO if that happens and that's what you want.




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