The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:42 pm

NYstate wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I feel so empty and hopeless about my future. How to overcome such crushing depression and ennui? Honestly, consideration for my family is the only thing that's preventing me from contemplating suicide. Despite what a loser I am, they love me and would be devastated if I made such a desperate move.

Mods, sticky this sh*t. "The Vale of Tears" thread should be required reading for every 0L.


Don't judge yourself or your worth by your job. I know law is all about this, but it just isn't true. You aren't a loser because you don't have a job.

Every time I read a post like this I feel very sad. It makes me hate law, seriously hate law and the whole prestige and status factory and the over enrollment of law schools.

I can only confirm that your family will be devastated and may never recover. I had a close family member commit suicide and we've never been the same. Christmas and her birthday are terrible. We will never forgive ourselves. It is just such a waste.

Try to get counseling if you can. Tell people how you feel; don't keep it inside. I'm not a trained therapist so I don't want to throw out glib statements, but hang in there. Don't give up on yourself and your life.

This

Yo anon, I went to counseling and it really helped. I urge you to go. Your state should have some form of lawyers' assistance hotline

You usually won't have to disclose the mere fact that you went to counseling, so I wouldn't worry ab that

Please don't hurt yourself. I know I don't know you, but please PM if you need anything

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:08 pm

rad lulz wrote:
NYstate wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I feel so empty and hopeless about my future. How to overcome such crushing depression and ennui? Honestly, consideration for my family is the only thing that's preventing me from contemplating suicide. Despite what a loser I am, they love me and would be devastated if I made such a desperate move.

Mods, sticky this sh*t. "The Vale of Tears" thread should be required reading for every 0L.


Don't judge yourself or your worth by your job. I know law is all about this, but it just isn't true. You aren't a loser because you don't have a job.

Every time I read a post like this I feel very sad. It makes me hate law, seriously hate law and the whole prestige and status factory and the over enrollment of law schools.

I can only confirm that your family will be devastated and may never recover. I had a close family member commit suicide and we've never been the same. Christmas and her birthday are terrible. We will never forgive ourselves. It is just such a waste.

Try to get counseling if you can. Tell people how you feel; don't keep it inside. I'm not a trained therapist so I don't want to throw out glib statements, but hang in there. Don't give up on yourself and your life.

This

Yo anon, I went to counseling and it really helped. I urge you to go. Your state should have some form of lawyers' assistance hotline

You usually won't have to disclose the mere fact that you went to counseling, so I wouldn't worry ab that

Please don't hurt yourself. I know I don't know you, but please PM if you need anything


Thanks, rad and Nony. I'll def. look into Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers. I'm living with my parents right now and have also been leaning on them for support.

Don't worry Valers, I will never kill or hurt myself over this. Simply imagining how my family would react to my suicide makes me instantly tear up. :cry:

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:13 pm

Anon, I would additionally recommend that you check out the TLS Support Thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=184797

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:29 am

Ditto on the thanks for the BYU info.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I feel so empty and hopeless about my future. How to overcome such crushing depression and ennui? Honestly, consideration for my family is the only thing that's preventing me from contemplating suicide. Despite what a loser I am, they love me and would be devastated if I made such a desperate move.

Mods, sticky this sh*t. "The Vale of Tears" thread should be required reading for every 0L.


I waited years before I finally went to go see someone. I regretted every day I didn't go once I finally mustered up the courage to go. I went to a psych and a counselor on campus, definitely did a 180 for me. Someone will listen to you for an hour, not argue with you about anything (a nice change from school), talk in the most calming voice ever, and mention how you're not the first person in law school he/she's seen and certainly not the last. Don't worry about C&F, you'll be fine. People go to see mental health practitioners all the time, but society places an unnecessary stigma on it. I'd see some of the seemingly happiest people in law school waiting in the same mental health clinic lobby as I was. Also, some states don't even ask (mine didn't), and your doctor/counselor can only disclose anything about you if the he/she determines you are a threat to others. Hope everything works out for you, I had those same thoughts for way too long.

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deebs
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby deebs » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:59 pm

Well, I somehow managed two interviews for next week (symplicity and parent's networking on my behalf that I followed up with), but I haven't had a law firm interview since spring OCI of 2L year. Even then, all my past interviews were for big firms through OCI or mass-mailing, and I couldn't convert anything into offers because I was clueless then about what I actually wanted to do and a lot of my feedback was that I appeared uninterested (I'm just extremely laid back and not type-A like 99% of my classmates). Both my upcoming interviews are at small firms, and they do exactly what I want to do and what my experience was in during law school, tax and finance. Can anyone help me out and fill me in on what types of questions small, focused firms, will be asking? Any advice on how to prep, if it's different than what I saw during OCI?

Also, what do I talk about when they ask me to tell them about myself? I never know what they're going for, and it's usually the first question. Should I mention that I come off as very laid back, but talk about my ability to do and interest in the type of work as evidenced by my grades in the position related classes, work experience, etc.?

Finally, for why I went to law school, the real reason is that I graduated with a finance and economics degree from a small un-respected school and was mowing baseball fields because no one would even give me an interview. To put it into perspective, during an informational interview, the partner asked me how I got into the law school coming from my undergrad. My CSO told me not to spin that (followed that advice during OCI to my detriment), but I feel that I could easily spin it into taking initiative/drive to improve my situation by going to a respected law school, focusing on getting into the kind of work these firms do where my background would be applicable and helpful.

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beach_terror
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby beach_terror » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:08 pm

deebs wrote:
Also, what do I talk about when they ask me to tell them about myself? I never know what they're going for, and it's usually the first question. Should I mention that I come off as very laid back, but talk about my ability to do and interest in the type of work as evidenced by my grades in the position related classes, work experience, etc.?

I always treat this as a quick bio of myself. I grew up in the area though, so I usually have gone to schools they've heard of. Tell them about college athletics, I usually work in why I went to my LS, etc.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:25 pm

deebs wrote:Also, what do I talk about when they ask me to tell them about myself? I never know what they're going for, and it's usually the first question. Should I mention that I come off as very laid back, but talk about my ability to do and interest in the type of work as evidenced by my grades in the position related classes, work experience, etc.?

I hit 4 basic things

1. I grew up in the area and went to XYZ high school (this show some ties and commitment)
2. I decided to attend XYZ college; there, I worked at [relevant legal summer jobs] that made me want to become a lawyer
3. I went to XYZ law school because of it's excellent track record of placing grads into this area (this shows desire, and commitment)
4. While at XYZ law school, I did [relevant legal experience], which lead me to seek a position in your firm

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deebs
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby deebs » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:46 pm

Thanks, guys.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:20 pm

What in the fuck? Why would you send me both a regular mail letter and a certified mail letter that both say "thanks but no thanks" for a position I applied for?

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gwuorbust
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gwuorbust » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:46 pm

kalvano wrote:What in the fuck? Why would you send me both a regular mail letter and a certified mail letter that both say "thanks but no thanks" for a position I applied for?


Who sends a certified letter for a rejection? I didn't know that was a thing.

Sorry bro.

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Joe Quincy
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Joe Quincy » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:45 pm

gwuorbust wrote:
kalvano wrote:What in the fuck? Why would you send me both a regular mail letter and a certified mail letter that both say "thanks but no thanks" for a position I applied for?


Who sends a certified letter for a rejection? I didn't know that was a thing.

Sorry bro.


At OCI a few years ago, i know someone who got an overnight rejection letter by fedex...during oci. He told the story on a hiring panel the next year and everyone had a good laugh. The hiring partners on the panel couldn't believe it happened but then he held up the fedex envelope he had kept.

In the end, they deduced someone checked the wrong box and the mailroom sent it out. Id guess something similar happened here.

A certain large firm mailed me at least 7 rejection letters over 3 months...even after I told them. Then this year, I mysteriously got anorher one two days before graduation (and 2 years after applying.)

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:53 pm

I just find it funny that I got the exact same letter both normal delivery and return receipt requested on the same day. Good thing I didn't want the job very badly, because they can damn sure prove I was rejected for it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:49 pm

Joe Quincy wrote:A certain large firm mailed me at least 7 rejection letters over 3 months...even after I told them. Then this year, I mysteriously got anorher one two days before graduation (and 2 years after applying.)


during OCI I was rejected from an office of a firm that I interviewed with... then two weeks later, I got another rejection letter from a different office of that firm that I didn't apply to. Then, a third rejection letter from the firm generally, with letterhead that listed all offices. You know, just in case I didn't get it the first two times.

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cinephile
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby cinephile » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Joe Quincy wrote:A certain large firm mailed me at least 7 rejection letters over 3 months...even after I told them. Then this year, I mysteriously got anorher one two days before graduation (and 2 years after applying.)


during OCI I was rejected from an office of a firm that I interviewed with... then two weeks later, I got another rejection letter from a different office of that firm that I didn't apply to. Then, a third rejection letter from the firm generally, with letterhead that listed all offices. You know, just in case I didn't get it the first two times.


A similar thing happened to me. Only I only got 2 rejection letters - the office I applied to and the one I didn't. The second letter actually softened the blow as I realized these people didn't even know who applied where and maybe I didn't want to work for them after all.

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Postby Myself » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:58 am

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:27 am

Friends - I have the opportunity to leave the Vale and would like some input...

I have received two offers in the past two weeks while studying for the bar. One, a real estate firm willing to pay about $50k in NYC greater metro area. The other, a (realistically) creditor's collection litigation firm, which also dabbles in other things, which offered about $40k + benefits in NYC.

I mean...I will NOT be able to pay on my loans with either of these positions. Not sure what I should do. I am waiting to hear from a couple other places, including an in-house counsel position I interviewed for in NYC.

So. Take one, and quit my bitching and be happy that I have offers? OR Take neither, and wait for something better?

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:Friends - I have the opportunity to leave the Vale and would like some input...

I have received two offers in the past two weeks while studying for the bar. One, a real estate firm willing to pay about $50k in NYC greater metro area. The other, a (realistically) creditor's collection litigation firm, which also dabbles in other things, which offered about $40k + benefits in NYC.

I mean...I will NOT be able to pay on my loans with either of these positions. Not sure what I should do. I am waiting to hear from a couple other places, including an in-house counsel position I interviewed for in NYC.

So. Take one, and quit my bitching and be happy that I have offers? OR Take neither, and wait for something better?

Do you think something better would come along?

I'd take one. Outside of biglaw (ships sailed), 50k is common

Get on IBR man

And congrats on the hustle

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:25 pm

Can you call the in house counsel place, tell them you have another offer and see if they've made a decision? Can't hurt. If they say no, I'd take the real estate one, especially if "greater NYC metro" means you can live somewhere cheaper than the city itself and it's $10k more.

Get on IBR (or PAYE if you qualify, i.e. had no loans before Oct. 2007) and your loan payments will be manageable short-term. It has to be better than nothing.

Gorki
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Gorki » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:17 pm

I am starting 3L in 1.5 months, but its safe to say I am in the vale. Wishing the best to all recent grads ITT and elsewhere who are still looking for jerbs. = (

NYstate
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Friends - I have the opportunity to leave the Vale and would like some input...

I have received two offers in the past two weeks while studying for the bar. One, a real estate firm willing to pay about $50k in NYC greater metro area. The other, a (realistically) creditor's collection litigation firm, which also dabbles in other things, which offered about $40k + benefits in NYC.

I mean...I will NOT be able to pay on my loans with either of these positions. Not sure what I should do. I am waiting to hear from a couple other places, including an in-house counsel position I interviewed for in NYC.

So. Take one, and quit my bitching and be happy that I have offers? OR Take neither, and wait for something better?


Yeah, check with other places and tell them you have another offer or something along those lines, and see if they are making a decision.

I would definitely take the real estate one. Real estate is a good thing to know in New York.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FeelTheHeat » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:35 pm

Gorki wrote:I am starting 3L in 1.5 months, but its safe to say I am in the vale. Wishing the best to all recent grads ITT and elsewhere who are still looking for jerbs. = (


Good luck, man.

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gwuorbust
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gwuorbust » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have received two offers in the past two weeks while studying for the bar. One, a real estate firm willing to pay about $50k in NYC greater metro area. The other, a (realistically) creditor's collection litigation firm, which also dabbles in other things, which offered about $40k + benefits in NYC.


As other posters have said, leverage these two positions to see if anything your other leads can make a decision quickly. Nonetheless, you should not let these positions fall away on the hope and prayer something else will materalize.

Between these two positions: The real estate position will allow you to learn about that area of law, for which there will always be demand. If real estate is your thing, go for it. As for the creditors-side position, this job is going to be soul-sucking. You are going to be taking money from people who already don't have anything. The only benefit is if you are interested in consumer protection law, working on the "other side" is a great way to cut your teeth. Attorneys who specialize in consumer protection law can make bank if they know what they are doing. It is an area that I am going to be getting into once I am licensed.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:18 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:32 pm

Question for the graduated valers: How are you holding up with bar prep? I honestly feel overwhelmed every so often. I just calm down and say "60-65% is passing, breh"




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