The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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sirpartner82
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sirpartner82 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:08 pm

Weil Gotshall shitcanned 60 associates today:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-2 ... r-pay.html


Another bloodbath is coming soon to Biglaw, probably by this fall. Expect to see a ton of summers get no-offered and end up back at the drawing board. The oversupply, as the linked article points out, is just not going away:
“It’s been going on at a number of firms all year, but Weil is a significant story because it’s a New York firm and highly successful,” Zeughauser said. “It’s an indication of how pervasive the overcapacity in the industry is.”
Zeughauser says the Weil firings are part of the right sizing that has been going on for some time, as far back as 2009 when Latham & Watkins LLP fired 190 lawyers and 250 staff.
“It’s not just that less is coming in,” Zeughauser said, “It’s a sign of the rising role of LPO’s and contract attorneys that are filling a need that clients have been long demanding, which is they don’t want to pay these kind of prices for first to third year associates.”


I suppose the real question is why anyone on this board went to law school in the first place, in the face of such overwhelming advice to the contrary? For the past 5 years, the news re: law as a "career" has been universally terrible. You guys are a bit like a 12 year old lighting up a Marlboro Red on the way out of your grandpas hospital room where he's taking chemo for Stage IV lung cancer. It's been no secret that law is the single worst grad school/ "career" choice by a very wide margin, a degree almost universally worthless and basically a complete joke.

User has been warned.

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:22 pm

sirpartner82 wrote:I suppose the real question is why anyone on this board went to law school in the first place, in the face of such overwhelming advice to the contrary? For the past 5 years, the news re: law as a "career" has been universally terrible. You guys are a bit like a 12 year old lighting up a Marlboro Red on the way out of your grandpas hospital room where he's taking chemo for Stage IV lung cancer. It's been no secret that law is the single worst grad school/ "career" choice by a very wide margin, a degree almost universally worthless and basically a complete joke.


GFY douchebag, this is not the thread to drop this kind of crap.

Take this stuff to prospective student forums or the thread devoted solely to the layoffs. Rubbing jobless 3Ls noses in it condescendingly is a dick move.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:25 pm

sirpartner82 wrote:Weil Gotshall shitcanned 60 associates today:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-2 ... r-pay.html


Another bloodbath is coming soon to Biglaw, probably by this fall. Expect to see a ton of summers get no-offered and end up back at the drawing board. The oversupply, as the linked article points out, is just not going away:
“It’s been going on at a number of firms all year, but Weil is a significant story because it’s a New York firm and highly successful,” Zeughauser said. “It’s an indication of how pervasive the overcapacity in the industry is.”
Zeughauser says the Weil firings are part of the right sizing that has been going on for some time, as far back as 2009 when Latham & Watkins LLP fired 190 lawyers and 250 staff.
“It’s not just that less is coming in,” Zeughauser said, “It’s a sign of the rising role of LPO’s and contract attorneys that are filling a need that clients have been long demanding, which is they don’t want to pay these kind of prices for first to third year associates.”


I suppose the real question is why anyone on this board went to law school in the first place, in the face of such overwhelming advice to the contrary? For the past 5 years, the news re: law as a "career" has been universally terrible. You guys are a bit like a 12 year old lighting up a Marlboro Red on the way out of your grandpas hospital room where he's taking chemo for Stage IV lung cancer. It's been no secret that law is the single worst grad school/ "career" choice by a very wide margin, a degree almost universally worthless and basically a complete joke.


Up until that last sentence you had some legitimate statements. But, the worst grad school choice? Not by a long-shot, even with employment as shitty at the present. How many comm masters students do you think get jobs? 60%? Probably not. Neither do they get paid over 50k most likely.

You must be trolling.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:37 pm

sirpartner82 wrote:Weil Gotshall shitcanned 60 associates today:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-2 ... r-pay.html


Another bloodbath is coming soon to Biglaw, probably by this fall. Expect to see a ton of summers get no-offered and end up back at the drawing board. The oversupply, as the linked article points out, is just not going away:
“It’s been going on at a number of firms all year, but Weil is a significant story because it’s a New York firm and highly successful,” Zeughauser said. “It’s an indication of how pervasive the overcapacity in the industry is.”
Zeughauser says the Weil firings are part of the right sizing that has been going on for some time, as far back as 2009 when Latham & Watkins LLP fired 190 lawyers and 250 staff.
“It’s not just that less is coming in,” Zeughauser said, “It’s a sign of the rising role of LPO’s and contract attorneys that are filling a need that clients have been long demanding, which is they don’t want to pay these kind of prices for first to third year associates.”


I suppose the real question is why anyone on this board went to law school in the first place, in the face of such overwhelming advice to the contrary? For the past 5 years, the news re: law as a "career" has been universally terrible. You guys are a bit like a 12 year old lighting up a Marlboro Red on the way out of your grandpas hospital room where he's taking chemo for Stage IV lung cancer. It's been no secret that law is the single worst grad school/ "career" choice by a very wide margin, a degree almost universally worthless and basically a complete joke.

This is all fine and good to poast in 0L threads (I poast the same things) but other than making you feel smug this isn't very helpful

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Re: Mourning and Weeping in the Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:48 pm

Perseus_I wrote:I think it's probably better to work retail than to work in shitlaw. Better pay, better hours, and more upward potential.


I have a friend who has worked in retail since high school and is now 24. She was a "manager" for several years at different places (Wet Seal, Gap) and now is the senior manager at a some trendy store in LA. She dropped out of high school and got her GED, didn't go to college, and between her retail work, teaching dance and exercise classes, and the occasional professional dance job, she pulls over $50k/year, manages to work less than 30 hours a week, and goes out constantly. (We were ballet students together, and she quit school to do that professionally for a few years and no money). I went to college, then law school, have spent probably $400,000 on my education, and I am going to be working like a slave after the bar at my $13/hour job just to pay my rent. Makes me wonder what the point was, and why everyone told me growing up YOU HAVE TO GO TO COLLEGE YOU HAVE TO GO TO GRAD SCHOOL. :cry:

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:53 pm

sirpartner82 wrote:It's been no secret that law is the single worst grad school/ "career" choice by a very wide margin, a degree almost universally worthless and basically a complete joke.


get over yrself dude. i'm not entirely glad i went to law school, but some people were really into it and loved the curriculum. regardless of whether lawyers are getting paid or not, people still want to "become" lawyers, and your biased opinion doesn't make their degrees worthless or a joke. i slaved my ass away in college for a creative arts degree which everyone told me was totally worthless when i was doing it, but ended up leading to a fun job in my field! maybe it's NOT a good idea for people to go to law school hoping to fast-track to wealth, but law school is still a great idea for people interested in the law.

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bjsesq
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:55 pm

I just got called in for a meeting regarding "discussing employment further." Have already had two rounds with them. Fuck, please let this be it.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:56 pm

bjsesq wrote:I just got called in for a meeting regarding "discussing employment further." Have already had two rounds with them. Fuck, please let this be it.

Dude

That can only be good

That's not gonna be bad

What kind of job?

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bjsesq
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:59 pm

rad lulz wrote:
bjsesq wrote:I just got called in for a meeting regarding "discussing employment further." Have already had two rounds with them. Fuck, please let this be it.

Dude

That can only be good

That's not gonna be bad

What kind of job?


Small firm, doing generalist shit. But it would pay my debt. And it's a job. God, please let this be it.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:02 pm

bjsesq wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
bjsesq wrote:I just got called in for a meeting regarding "discussing employment further." Have already had two rounds with them. Fuck, please let this be it.

Dude

That can only be good

That's not gonna be bad

What kind of job?


Small firm, doing generalist shit. But it would pay my debt. And it's a job. God, please let this be it.

Good luck man

Let us know what happens

But keep in mind they wouldn't call you in for a meeting to reject you

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bjsesq
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:12 pm

rad lulz wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
bjsesq wrote:I just got called in for a meeting regarding "discussing employment further." Have already had two rounds with them. Fuck, please let this be it.

Dude

That can only be good

That's not gonna be bad

What kind of job?


Small firm, doing generalist shit. But it would pay my debt. And it's a job. God, please let this be it.

Good luck man

Let us know what happens

But keep in mind they wouldn't call you in for a meeting to reject you


Common sense says yes. My destroyed sense of hope says no. Thanks for the well wishes.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:25 pm

Has anyone had any luck with the government contract specialist position jobs that get posted on USAjobs rather regularly?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:51 pm

bjsesq wrote:I just got called in for a meeting regarding "discussing employment further." Have already had two rounds with them. Fuck, please let this be it.

Good luck bro. I'm pulling for you.

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.

Postby Another » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:08 pm

.
Last edited by Another on Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Borhas
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Borhas » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:31 pm

bk1 wrote:
bjsesq wrote:I just got called in for a meeting regarding "discussing employment further." Have already had two rounds with them. Fuck, please let this be it.

Good luck bro. I'm pulling for you.

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Borhas
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Borhas » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone had any luck with the government contract specialist position jobs that get posted on USAjobs rather regularly?


I applied to well over 200 fed jobs, and probably 20 of them were contract specialist positions. Never even got referred.

(K-JD w/ only crim defense experience and a C in Contracts)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:54 pm

It's so funny, this BAR exam gives me an excuse to sit on my ass and "study" all day, and borrow money from loans/parents with the excuse that I can't work yet. But come end of July, reality sinks in- I have no future. What's the point anymore?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It's so funny, this BAR exam gives me an excuse to sit on my ass and "study" all day, and borrow money from loans/parents with the excuse that I can't work yet. But come end of July, reality sinks in- I have no future. What's the point anymore?



Push through it bro. Try to set aside some time each day to at least look at Symplicity, state jerb boards, Martindale for networking, etc.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:07 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It's so funny, this BAR exam gives me an excuse to sit on my ass and "study" all day, and borrow money from loans/parents with the excuse that I can't work yet. But come end of July, reality sinks in- I have no future. What's the point anymore?



Push through it bro. Try to set aside some time each day to at least look at Symplicity, state jerb boards, Martindale for networking, etc.

This

See if you can set up some coffees, phone calls, or lunches

Doesn't need to be much

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:15 pm

Had coffee with a fairly recent SMU grad today (recent enough to have a realistic expectation of the job market). Made me feel better. Basically said that, yeah, it sucks right now and it makes studying for the bar super hard to do, but that they are good about placing students and in a couple years it'll be a distant memory.

Nice to hear it from someone who actually knows what they are talking about, as opposed to some boomer partner who's been making bank for 25 years and totally out of touch.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:17 pm

Coffees and lunches with who? Every networking lead I've had has ended up with nothing. I have no idea who else to approach besides randomly emailing people to get lunch with me. Ugh.

What about doc review? I really at this point can do doc review forever. Is it difficult to get a doc review gig after taking the bar?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:18 pm

Starting to think about applying to jobs at unions. It's what I come from (and what I did not want to back to), but the money's decent.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Coffees and lunches with who? Every networking lead I've had has ended up with nothing.


I'd rather be having free coffee than bar studying. My thought is that, yeah, 99% of it is a waste of time and will lead to nothing. But every person I meet tends to give me a few names of people to email, and being able to email someone with "Hey, so-and-so at XYZ firm told me to email you...." is a much better lead-in than just emailing a resume cold. It gives you more credibility, since you know so-and-so and they can speak a little bit about you.

And as to where it leads, it only takes one. I sent out tons of emails (over 300) for 2L summer, and eventually got a job that way, although the fuckers didn't offer me a job. But nonetheless, it was paying summer work. I'm taking the same approach to this: I only need one "yes" amid the sea of "sorry, but...."

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:53 pm

kalvano wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Coffees and lunches with who? Every networking lead I've had has ended up with nothing.


I'd rather be having free coffee than bar studying. My thought is that, yeah, 99% of it is a waste of time and will lead to nothing. But every person I meet tends to give me a few names of people to email, and being able to email someone with "Hey, so-and-so at XYZ firm told me to email you...." is a much better lead-in than just emailing a resume cold. It gives you more credibility, since you know so-and-so and they can speak a little bit about you.

And as to where it leads, it only takes one. I sent out tons of emails (over 300) for 2L summer, and eventually got a job that way, although the fuckers didn't offer me a job. But nonetheless, it was paying summer work. I'm taking the same approach to this: I only need one "yes" amid the sea of "sorry, but...."

This is good advice

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Olive83 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Coffees and lunches with who? Every networking lead I've had has ended up with nothing. I have no idea who else to approach besides randomly emailing people to get lunch with me. Ugh.

What about doc review? I really at this point can do doc review forever. Is it difficult to get a doc review gig after taking the bar?


Every little bit helps, and all the advice you have received above is solid. I want to add that ending up with nothing at first doesn't mean anything at all - every connection you make grows your network and gets your name out there. It leads you to the next person, who may be the one that hires you. For me, a connection came through months after I had met her; she remembered me from our first meeting, and when she needed a new associate months down the road, called me out of the blue. And we only met because I randomly e-mailed her to grab coffee with me!

Plus, meeting new people on a semi-regular basis keeps you social and in the know about your local legal community. And of course, coffee & chatting > studying :)




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