The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:43 am

Finally got an interview at a big firm in Dallas! Hopefully I can remember to speak in complete sentences and won't crap myself during introductions. Sad how much this process affects the confidence.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:05 am

Also, for those interested in the Dallas area, be sure to check the job postings on the Dallas Bar Association website. You should do this for whatever city, even when they ask for some experience. The DBA is weird because they have different jobs posted in the classified section and career, so check both:

http://www.dallasbar.com/category/classified-ad-category/positions-available
http://www.dallasbar.com/career-center-0

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TTH
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:25 pm

Well, I thought my interview went pretty well. Will be waiting with baited breath to hear back.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:28 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

son_of_ben
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby son_of_ben » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:58 pm

Waiting can be the worst thing though...

I posted about a second interview I had back in early May/ late April, and I STILL haven't heard back.

I followed up right after the interview and heard nothing, then followed up again after graduation with an updated resume (graduation awards, Latin honors stuff) and still haven't heard a peep -- which is weird because before this the recruiter was very responsive before this. I haven't made any contact for two weeks, but should I continue to follow up (about every two weeks) or is that too desperate?

Also, for what it is worth, when I had my initial interview, I heard nothing for two months besides the standard "we will be in touch, maybe" immediately after the interview.

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Summerz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Summerz » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:48 pm

Need some great strategy and encouragement for a rising longtime (rising 3L) friend on the cusp of entering the Vale. My friend is positive that he will be no-offered. If you were in the middle of your SA and knew that a no-offer was inevitable, what would you, or can you do? Forget about trying to turn it around from inside the firm (not happening, period). He attends a T14, so there is that. His recent grades are A’s, but only median last year (thus no law review), thus no V is likely coming after him. That’s it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:56 pm

Summerz wrote:Need some great strategy and encouragement for a rising longtime (rising 3L) friend on the cusp of entering the Vale. My friend is positive that he will be no-offered. If you were in the middle of your SA and knew that a no-offer was inevitable, what would you, or can you do? Forget about trying to turn it around from inside the firm (not happening, period). He attends a T14, so there is that. His recent grades are A’s, but only median last year (thus no law review), thus no V is likely coming after him. That’s it.

Tell him to poast here himself

But here is the standard copypasa advice to a VERY broad inquiry:

rad lulz wrote:There is no 3L hiring "season." 3L job search possibilities look like this

1) 3L OCI - HAHAURFUCKED

2) Mass mail - low return for even the minimal amount of time it takes to research/mail merge due to the fact that the firms you mail must want to hire and want to hire AT THE TIME you mail and often they are looking to fill a specific practice need

3) Networking - hope you got on that sometime over the past few years

4) Symplicity - low response rate but better than mass mailing because those firms are ACTUALLY hiring when you submit your resume.

5) Whatever your CSO can scrounge up for you - probably nothing

6) Small firm or govt you clerk/intern for during the year - decent option if you can do this; those places may want to hire you or know people who will

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TTH
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:11 pm

rad lulz wrote:There is no 3L hiring "season." 3L job search possibilities look like this

1) 3L OCI - HAHAURFUCKED

2) Mass mail - low return for even the minimal amount of time it takes to research/mail merge due to the fact that the firms you mail must want to hire and want to hire AT THE TIME you mail and often they are looking to fill a specific practice need

3) Networking - hope you got on that sometime over the past few years

4) Symplicity - low response rate but better than mass mailing because those firms are ACTUALLY hiring when you submit your resume.

5) Whatever your CSO can scrounge up for you - probably nothing

6) Small firm or govt you clerk/intern for during the year - decent option if you can do this; those places may want to hire you or know people who will
[/quote]

Added to OP.

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ilovesf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ilovesf » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:13 pm

rad lulz wrote:
buddingjd wrote:Is it too early for rising 3Ls to enter the Vale?

2L is over

Not too early

Oh.. Sup then.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hiima3L » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:43 pm

son_of_ben wrote:Waiting can be the worst thing though...

I posted about a second interview I had back in early May/ late April, and I STILL haven't heard back.

I followed up right after the interview and heard nothing, then followed up again after graduation with an updated resume (graduation awards, Latin honors stuff) and still haven't heard a peep -- which is weird because before this the recruiter was very responsive before this. I haven't made any contact for two weeks, but should I continue to follow up (about every two weeks) or is that too desperate?

Also, for what it is worth, when I had my initial interview, I heard nothing for two months besides the standard "we will be in touch, maybe" immediately after the interview.


Depends. Some gov't hiring can be REALLY, really slow. I know someone who just got a job he applied to in November. He didn't hear anything until about April.

No harm in nudging. You can always BS and say you have some "other potential options."

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:01 pm

TTH wrote:
rad lulz wrote:There is no 3L hiring "season." 3L job search possibilities look like this

1) 3L OCI - HAHAURFUCKED

2) Mass mail - low return for even the minimal amount of time it takes to research/mail merge due to the fact that the firms you mail must want to hire and want to hire AT THE TIME you mail and often they are looking to fill a specific practice need

3) Networking - hope you got on that sometime over the past few years

4) Symplicity - low response rate but better than mass mailing because those firms are ACTUALLY hiring when you submit your resume.

5) Whatever your CSO can scrounge up for you - probably nothing

6) Small firm or govt you clerk/intern for during the year - decent option if you can do this; those places may want to hire you or know people who will




Add BYU Jerb Bank and local bar association webpages, but it gives the same results as Symplicity.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:49 am

Bikeflip wrote:
TTH wrote:
rad lulz wrote:There is no 3L hiring "season." 3L job search possibilities look like this

1) 3L OCI - HAHAURFUCKED

2) Mass mail - low return for even the minimal amount of time it takes to research/mail merge due to the fact that the firms you mail must want to hire and want to hire AT THE TIME you mail and often they are looking to fill a specific practice need

3) Networking - hope you got on that sometime over the past few years

4) Symplicity - low response rate but better than mass mailing because those firms are ACTUALLY hiring when you submit your resume.

5) Whatever your CSO can scrounge up for you - probably nothing

6) Small firm or govt you clerk/intern for during the year - decent option if you can do this; those places may want to hire you or know people who will




Add BYU Jerb Bank and local bar association webpages, but it gives the same results as Symplicity.

Yeah I meant symplicity as a generic term for the Govt Guide and other specific job poastings

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:45 am

rad lulz wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:
TTH wrote:
rad lulz wrote:There is no 3L hiring "season." 3L job search possibilities look like this

1) 3L OCI - HAHAURFUCKED

2) Mass mail - low return for even the minimal amount of time it takes to research/mail merge due to the fact that the firms you mail must want to hire and want to hire AT THE TIME you mail and often they are looking to fill a specific practice need

3) Networking - hope you got on that sometime over the past few years

4) Symplicity - low response rate but better than mass mailing because those firms are ACTUALLY hiring when you submit your resume.

5) Whatever your CSO can scrounge up for you - probably nothing

6) Small firm or govt you clerk/intern for during the year - decent option if you can do this; those places may want to hire you or know people who will




Add BYU Jerb Bank and local bar association webpages, but it gives the same results as Symplicity.

Yeah I meant symplicity as a generic term for the Govt Guide and other specific job poastings


Gotcha. Just tryin' to help out the new 3Ls.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Summerz » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:05 am

Summerz wrote:Need some great strategy and encouragement for a rising longtime (rising 3L) friend on the cusp of entering the Vale. My friend is positive that he will be no-offered. If you were in the middle of your SA and knew that a no-offer was inevitable, what would you, or can you do? Forget about trying to turn it around from inside the firm (not happening, period). He attends a T14, so there is that. His recent grades are A’s, but only median last year (thus no law review), thus no V is likely coming after him. That’s it.

Perhaps my question was misread, poorly asked, or whatever…. the specific point is… if today you were in the middle of an SA you felt was going south (from a firm with a 50/50 offer rate) what you do? Background T14, better than median grades and turned down 2-3 other offers from V100.

Asking for something other than the standard 3L is tough blah-blah.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lolwat » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:01 am

Perhaps my question was misread, poorly asked, or whatever…. the specific point is… if today you were in the middle of an SA you felt was going south (from a firm with a 50/50 offer rate) what you do? Background T14, better than median grades and turned down 2-3 other offers from V100.


Start asking out partners at firms in the area (other than the one that he's at) out to lunch?

Go talk to people at the V100s that he turned down offers from? Might seem awkward but people usually don't make it so.

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Summerz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Summerz » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:19 am

lolwat wrote:
Perhaps my question was misread, poorly asked, or whatever…. the specific point is… if today you were in the middle of an SA you felt was going south (from a firm with a 50/50 offer rate) what you do? Background T14, better than median grades and turned down 2-3 other offers from V100.


Start asking out partners at firms in the area (other than the one that he's at) out to lunch?

Go talk to people at the V100s that he turned down offers from? Might seem awkward but people usually don't make it so.

Thank you. I agree. At some point he has to man-up. He doesn’t disagree but is concerned about the timing. Turns out some of the partners are connected to the firms he could have accepted (connected as once worked there as partners themselves and they often communicate). I understand his reluctance not to jeopardize his SA income. Perhaps there is no solution until they issue the “no-offer” and see if some magical escape route appears.

My only other suggestion was to do whatever he could to receive a cold-offer. All I know about cold offers is what I’ve read on message boards which is, they might be a life saver. Is that true? Anyone here ever receive a cold-offer, or thought it might help, or ask for one and the cold offer request denied?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lolwat » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:23 am

getting a permanent job > getting SA income. plus if he's not fired already for whatever he did that's getting him a no-offer, it's unlikely to happen now just because he's starting to look elsewhere

no idea re cold offer

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:40 am

It depends how badly he screwed up. I think he should talk to the partners at the firm and ask if there is anyway he can make it up. If only to start getting on the good side of partners who will help him find something else. He needs to try to get people from his SA firm on his side even if they no offer him.

He might be able to convince them to give him a cold offer. But I think that works at firms that have high acceptance rates( they want to keep their stats close to 100% offer so they get SAs next year. )With this firm 50-50 rate being well known, they probably don't care. The firm has nothing to gain by cold offering him and straight out no offering everyone else. Maybe if he finds a way to beg for a cold offer, he can get one.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Summerz » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:58 pm

NYstate wrote:It depends how badly he screwed up. I think he should talk to the partners at the firm and ask if there is anyway he can make it up. If only to start getting on the good side of partners who will help him find something else. He needs to try to get people from his SA firm on his side even if they no offer him.

He might be able to convince them to give him a cold offer. But I think that works at firms that have high acceptance rates( they want to keep their stats close to 100% offer so they get SAs next year. )With this firm 50-50 rate being well known, they probably don't care. The firm has nothing to gain by cold offering him and straight out no offering everyone else. Maybe if he finds a way to beg for a cold offer, he can get one.

The good news is (as I hear it), he did not screw up. The firm tends to pick and choose. He heard that the last people who were not offered really didn't do anything wrong.

Regarding cold-offers. This firm might make a cold offer, I say this only because he said last year the school whose SAs were not offered posted on their web site that they were offered.

If a cold offer is tendered what normally happens? If he contacts a firm that made an offer last go-around or goes to OCI with the pretend offer, what does one say? “I like them, but I like you better…” What is your advice or does anyone here have life experience on this? Thanks.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:13 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Summerz » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:56 pm

rad lulz wrote:jfc just tell him to poast here himself or make another thread
wrong thread for this shit

Shit? Really? Trying to help people out. You should never post ... ever. Go away.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby beach_terror » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:59 pm

Summerz wrote:
rad lulz wrote:jfc just tell him to poast here himself or make another thread
wrong thread for this shit

Shit? Really? Trying to help people out. You should never post ... ever. Go away.

This isn't a thread for you to continually post questions on someone's behalf that takes pages and pages to answer. It's not about 3L job hunting either - It's about SA bullshit. L2R

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Ludo!
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Ludo! » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:19 pm

Summerz wrote:
rad lulz wrote:jfc just tell him to poast here himself or make another thread
wrong thread for this shit

Shit? Really? Trying to help people out. You should never post ... ever. Go away.


Rad is the most helpful poster in the Vale. Gtfo

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:41 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:
Summerz wrote:
rad lulz wrote:jfc just tell him to poast here himself or make another thread
wrong thread for this shit

Shit? Really? Trying to help people out. You should never post ... ever. Go away.


Rad is the most helpful poster in the Vale. Gtfo

Srsly.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:59 pm

found out today that the most consistently unbearable gunner in my class graduated with no honors or accolades at all. satisfying to know all that gunning got her nowhere, but also pisses me off because that girl has a biglaw job and i graduated with honors and can't get an interview. :twisted:




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