The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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TTH
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:13 am

Two questions because I'm really rusty with interviewing and I have a key interview tomorrow.

(1) Should I send thank you notes to all five people I'm supposed to meet tomorrow or just the top guy?

(2) How should I answer the "tell me about yourself" question. Here are what I think my talking points are for it.

• I'm a serious guy who doesn't take myself too seriously.
• I love to kid around, talk sports, etc.
• But when it comes to my work, I'm driven to get it right because I can't stand how it feels when I don't think I've done my best at something.

Am I being too aspie here? This is the first interview I've had in months and the first callback-style interview that I've had since 2L OCI. I just want to be sure I'm on my A-Game.

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bk1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:18 am

Don't send thank yous to everyone. It's really transparent, imo. I'd say send a thank you to the person you most connected with (that is if you are going to send a thank you, which I generally don't). I feel like your talking points are kinda canned. The "tell me about yourself" question to me is more asking about your background, but I could be off on that.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:29 am

Yeah, I always understand the "tell us about yourself" question to be a kind of generic "what did you do before law school and why'd you end up there" kind of thing. If you're K-JD that can be as simple as where you grew up, where'd you go to college, some of the things you did in college - stuff like that.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lolwat » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:32 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yeah, I always understand the "tell us about yourself" question to be a kind of generic "what did you do before law school and why'd you end up there" kind of thing. If you're K-JD that can be as simple as where you grew up, where'd you go to college, some of the things you did in college - stuff like that.


Sounds about right to me but I think I always bomb this question unnecessarily because it's so open-ended. :P

I try to focus a little bit on what the position is for, if possible. For example, spin your background a little into how and why you're interested in this [IP transactional position in Silicon Valley where your work would deal mostly with start-ups] or why you're interested in this [firm like Quinn Emanuel that advertises everyone as being TRIAL ATTORNEYS THAT WIN CASES and not just litigators].

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TTH
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:36 am

Glad I asked. Interwebs keep pushing "Tell me about yourself" as the time for your elevator speech of whatever.

Interviewing blows.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:49 am

TTH wrote:Interviewing blows.


Absofuckinglutely.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:50 am

bk1 wrote:Don't send thank yous to everyone. It's really transparent, imo.


I kind of disagree with that, to the extent you can send something different to each person. But five people is also pushing it, I guess. Two or three is more definite.

buddingjd
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby buddingjd » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:52 am

Is it too early for rising 3Ls to enter the Vale?

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beach_terror
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby beach_terror » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:07 pm

Advice to the rising c/o 2014 vale members: adjust your class schedule so you can work 1 or 2 jobs during the year at a place that may have a good chance of hiring you. I'd recommend avoiding the gov't (incl. judges). Target smaller to mid-sized firms, do some research and see how they're doing. A lot of places haven't expanded since the crash and are looking to do so, but are comfortable enough not to need to add people right away. Offering to work during the semester is the best way to get out of the vale, IMO. Keep an eye on your CSO job website and do research on your own. Target places that you've done some course work in (e.g. complex lit) so you can write a persuasive cover letter. I'd also avoid targeting big law for these types of jobs.

It's how I got my job and it's far better than resume spamming and interviewing for jobs that are sometimes 30/40 interviewees for 1 spot. Typically, even for a CSO posting, there may only be 10 applicants for a part-time gig (especially if it pays shit). No work is above you and, if it's a smaller firm, you can't equate entry salary with hourly rate (I got $20/hour and my salary is 6 figures). Go in, bust your ass, get some people invested in your success, and they'll hire you or they'll probably know someone who will if they can't.

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TTH
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:33 pm

beach_terror wrote:Advice to the rising c/o 2014 vale members: adjust your class schedule so you can work 1 or 2 jobs during the year at a place that may have a good chance of hiring you. I'd recommend avoiding the gov't (incl. judges). Target smaller to mid-sized firms, do some research and see how they're doing. A lot of places haven't expanded since the crash and are looking to do so, but are comfortable enough not to need to add people right away. Offering to work during the semester is the best way to get out of the vale, IMO. Keep an eye on your CSO job website and do research on your own. Target places that you've done some course work in (e.g. complex lit) so you can write a persuasive cover letter. I'd also avoid targeting big law for these types of jobs.

It's how I got my job and it's far better than resume spamming and interviewing for jobs that are sometimes 30/40 interviewees for 1 spot. Typically, even for a CSO posting, there may only be 10 applicants for a part-time gig (especially if it pays shit). No work is above you and, if it's a smaller firm, you can't equate entry salary with hourly rate (I got $20/hour and my salary is 6 figures). Go in, bust your ass, get some people invested in your success, and they'll hire you or they'll probably know someone who will if they can't.


Solid advice. I got ITE no-offered but kept working there throughout the school year and have gotten several leads from attorneys at the firm.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby windowcactus » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:39 pm

beach_terror wrote:Advice to the rising c/o 2014 vale members: adjust your class schedule so you can work 1 or 2 jobs during the year at a place that may have a good chance of hiring you. I'd recommend avoiding the gov't (incl. judges). Target smaller to mid-sized firms, do some research and see how they're doing. A lot of places haven't expanded since the crash and are looking to do so, but are comfortable enough not to need to add people right away. Offering to work during the semester is the best way to get out of the vale, IMO. Keep an eye on your CSO job website and do research on your own. Target places that you've done some course work in (e.g. complex lit) so you can write a persuasive cover letter. I'd also avoid targeting big law for these types of jobs.

It's how I got my job and it's far better than resume spamming and interviewing for jobs that are sometimes 30/40 interviewees for 1 spot. Typically, even for a CSO posting, there may only be 10 applicants for a part-time gig (especially if it pays shit). No work is above you and, if it's a smaller firm, you can't equate entry salary with hourly rate (I got $20/hour and my salary is 6 figures). Go in, bust your ass, get some people invested in your success, and they'll hire you or they'll probably know someone who will if they can't.


Based on my experiences, this is really great advice. Although I did not get an offer for permanent employment from the law firm I clerked with during my 3L year, the attorneys were great about putting me in touch with people for networking purposes. Even if the firm can't bring you on as an attorney, the law clerk resume line will show a demonstrated interest in a particular area of law and also gives you a great chance to show how you're a hard-worker and can balance multiple responsibilities (i.e. school full-time and a job).

I do not think I would have landed a job if I had not taken a law clerk position as a 3L.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby traehekat » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:15 pm

TTH wrote:Two questions because I'm really rusty with interviewing and I have a key interview tomorrow.

(1) Should I send thank you notes to all five people I'm supposed to meet tomorrow or just the top guy?

(2) How should I answer the "tell me about yourself" question. Here are what I think my talking points are for it.

• I'm a serious guy who doesn't take myself too seriously.
• I love to kid around, talk sports, etc.
• But when it comes to my work, I'm driven to get it right because I can't stand how it feels when I don't think I've done my best at something.

Am I being too aspie here? This is the first interview I've had in months and the first callback-style interview that I've had since 2L OCI. I just want to be sure I'm on my A-Game.


I always translated "tell me about yourself" to "tell me something interesting about yourself that we might be able to have a conversation about for a few minutes here," so you can go into where you grew up, where you went to school, what you majored in, etc. Mention some of your hobbies or passions, whatever. Maybe take cues from things they happen to have in their office, e.g. sports memorabilia, and mention that you enjoy those things, as well (don't lie or force it obviously, but if you have something in common you could talk about then great, jump on that opportunity). With associates I was a little more willing to "be myself" and share some kinda quirky things I like to do like coming up with different burger recipes because I felt they would be more open to talking about goofy stuff like that and who knows maybe we end up talking about some local restaurants or something. With partners I dialed it back a little bit and stuck to stuff like where I grew up, where I went to school, etc. and talking more about professional/community activities.

Just my take on it, it's definitely an awkward question and people have different opinions on how you should answer.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby snowpeach06 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:00 pm

As it turns out, I cannot find an e-mail address anywhere for the main interviewer and could only get to the assistant. Send it to her to have her forward it? I feel like that shows I fail at finding an e-mail address.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:08 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:As it turns out, I cannot find an e-mail address anywhere for the main interviewer and could only get to the assistant. Send it to her to have her forward it? I feel like that shows I fail at finding an e-mail address.



Is it a firm? Use Lexis Advance Research Tool's to find any email address for an attorney.

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TTH
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:08 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:As it turns out, I cannot find an e-mail address anywhere for the main interviewer and could only get to the assistant. Send it to her to have her forward it? I feel like that shows I fail at finding an e-mail address.


Might just call the assistant, explain who you are, and ask for the interviewer's e-mail address.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby snowpeach06 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:14 pm

kalvano wrote:
snowpeach06 wrote:As it turns out, I cannot find an e-mail address anywhere for the main interviewer and could only get to the assistant. Send it to her to have her forward it? I feel like that shows I fail at finding an e-mail address.



Is it a firm? Use Lexis Advance Research Tool's to find any email address for an attorney.

Government. The secretary also interviewed me - so, I wasn't sure if it was insulting to her to be like "I want to write to the OTHER interviewer cuse he is more than a secretary."

NYstate
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:44 pm

Just call to confirm the address for the secretary and ask for the email address of the other person. If the secretary doesn't want to give it to you, ask her to forward the email you send.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:22 pm

Waiting to hear back is making bar study damn near impossible.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:32 pm

beach_terror wrote:Advice to the rising c/o 2014 vale members: adjust your class schedule so you can work 1 or 2 jobs during the year at a place that may have a good chance of hiring you. I'd recommend avoiding the gov't (incl. judges). Target smaller to mid-sized firms, do some research and see how they're doing. A lot of places haven't expanded since the crash and are looking to do so, but are comfortable enough not to need to add people right away. Offering to work during the semester is the best way to get out of the vale, IMO. Keep an eye on your CSO job website and do research on your own. Target places that you've done some course work in (e.g. complex lit) so you can write a persuasive cover letter. I'd also avoid targeting big law for these types of jobs.

It's how I got my job and it's far better than resume spamming and interviewing for jobs that are sometimes 30/40 interviewees for 1 spot. Typically, even for a CSO posting, there may only be 10 applicants for a part-time gig (especially if it pays shit). No work is above you and, if it's a smaller firm, you can't equate entry salary with hourly rate (I got $20/hour and my salary is 6 figures). Go in, bust your ass, get some people invested in your success, and they'll hire you or they'll probably know someone who will if they can't.

Good advice

I will say though that if your local DA/PD usually draws from its pool of interns, that might be worth doing as well

But firms will pay you, so there's that

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:45 pm

I've never been asked for an "elevator speech," but I often get asked "tell me about yourself" to kick off an interview. I treat it as a way to highlight or introduce what makes me a good fit for the job:

"I grew up in XYZ [gotta show ties] and I got interested in law school during college when I worked at [relevant summer job]. I chose to go to [my school] because I talked to some attorneys who had attended [my school] and they assured me it had a proven track record in XYZ [gotta stress ties]. At [my school] I really enjoyed working in [relevant area] during my summers which lead me to apply to your firm because of its strength in [relevant practice area]."

Something like that basically

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:48 pm

buddingjd wrote:Is it too early for rising 3Ls to enter the Vale?

2L is over

Not too early

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby stayway » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:49 pm

Signed my offer letter today. Going to mail it in tomorrow.

I agree with Beach.

Instead of working part-time, what I did was got creative with my school's externship policy and networked my way into a big firm. The supervising partner liked me and she ended up persuading one of her clients to create a legal position for me.

Good luck to everyone.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:08 am

nooyyllib wrote:Signed my offer letter today. Going to mail it in tomorrow.

I agree with Beach.

Instead of working part-time, what I did was got creative with my school's externship policy and networked my way into a big firm. The supervising partner liked me and she ended up persuading one of her clients to create a legal position for me.

Good luck to everyone.

Nice that's pretty rad

Grats bro

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Geist13 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:36 am

For the first time since my first semester of law school I'm starting to get pretty down about the job hunt. Been able to stay pretty positive over the past few years but fuck, I can't even get any interviews. Haven't had one since January. magna T20 graduate, law review, published, a few cali's, all that school related BS, appeared in court numerous times so some okay practical experience too. Whatever, I'd be okay if I were getting interviews and people just didn't like me. But when local firms are looking for an entry-level litigation associate (which is what my resume screams) and I don't even get an interview (over and over this has happened), it's freaking frustrating as shit.

Oh and fuck you barbri, what a waste of money that shit was.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:42 am

Geist13 wrote:For the first time since my first semester of law school I'm starting to get pretty down about the job hunt. Been able to stay pretty positive over the past few years but fuck, I can't even get any interviews. Haven't had one since January. magna T20 graduate, law review, published, a few cali's, all that school related BS, appeared in court numerous times so some okay practical experience too. Whatever, I'd be okay if I were getting interviews and people just didn't like me. But when local firms are looking for an entry-level litigation associate (which is what my resume screams) and I don't even get an interview (over and over this has happened), it's freaking frustrating as shit.

Oh and fuck you barbri, what a waste of money that shit was.

Damn I'm sorry brother

I hope things start looking up soon




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