The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:14 am

kalvano wrote:Salary.com, Indeed, and others say their average salary is $70K, so I was going to put a little below and a little above that, negotiable dependent on the compensation package and travel requirements.

Don't give a range just give the top number, especially since you are already telling them you are willing to negotiate. If you give a range all you are doing is telling them you'd be happy with the lower number.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:18 am

I skipped the range. Just said willing to negotiate based on total compensation package and travel required. We shall see. I think it's kind of silly to ask a fresh grad about salary requirements. Either post the salary or make an offer. But right now my requirement is a salary.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:56 pm

kalvano wrote:I skipped the range. Just said willing to negotiate based on total compensation package and travel required. We shall see. I think it's kind of silly to ask a fresh grad about salary requirements. Either post the salary or make an offer. But right now my requirement is a salary.



Congrats, is the job interview in TX?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:45 pm

No, it's a private employment organization out of state looking to move into Texas.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:11 pm

Hm, looks like it's in-house interview day today. I came here to ask almost the exact same question as kalvano.

Rooting for you (and for myself), bro.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:49 pm

Good luck bros

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:18 pm

Don't know what to do anymore. Feel lifeless.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Don't know what to do anymore. Feel lifeless.


Stop being dramatic. Just take the bar and get a job. I don't know your stats, but at this point its all about fit and network. Every state has attorney jobs after the bar. Some of these are at big firms, some are with solos. Regardless, if you have a niche focus and a good network that knows you are supplying that demand, you have just done a lot to find yourself a job.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Don't know what to do anymore. Feel lifeless.


Stop being dramatic. Just take the bar and get a job. I don't know your stats, but at this point its all about fit and network. Every state has attorney jobs after the bar. Some of these are at big firms, some are with solos. Regardless, if you have a niche focus and a good network that knows you are supplying that demand, you have just done a lot to find yourself a job.

I don't believe that this is dramatic

And I know it's not as easy as "just take the bar and get a job"

But the bold is good advice

Bar study's as good a time as any time to try to line up some coffees and lunches

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:17 pm

Out of curiosity, how many people have active leads on Symplicity? I thought my OCS was full of shit when they said there would be several, but they (surprisingly) weren't. We get several good leads a week now.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:50 pm

kalvano wrote:Out of curiosity, how many people have active leads on Symplicity? I thought my OCS was full of shit when they said there would be several, but they (surprisingly) weren't. We get several good leads a week now.


Yeah, I'm seeing like one or two jobs a week that I'm applying for.

Question: I got this interview in-house at a P-E firm. I don't know what the position will entail yet, but I've often seen people discuss compliance work like it's something separate and distinct from straightforward in-house legal work. Can anyone speak to what that distinction is? Also, what would a P-E firm have an entry-level bro like myself doing.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:55 pm

kalvano wrote:Out of curiosity, how many people have active leads on Symplicity? I thought my OCS was full of shit when they said there would be several, but they (surprisingly) weren't. We get several good leads a week now.

Just a quick snapshot of mine

There are like 2 or 3 decent firm jobs in random states

Some firm jobs looking for people w elite credentials (ex. Bickel & Brewer)

1 magistrate clerkship

Random state court clerkships

A bunch of pseudojobs or JD preferred type stuff

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:35 pm

is Bickel & Brewer hiring for texas or NY?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:is Bickel & Brewer hiring for texas or NY?

Dallas and NY

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:34 pm

Stop being dramatic. Just take the bar and get a job. I don't know your stats, but at this point its all about fit and network. Every state has attorney jobs after the bar. Some of these are at big firms, some are with solos. Regardless, if you have a niche focus and a good network that knows you are supplying that demand, you have just done a lot to find yourself a job.


And they want 3-5 years experience too. Besides, taking the bar means nothing. Still need to pass it. Then pass character and fitness. And so on. That is almost a year before I'm sworn in. I can't be jobless until then. I literally, financially cannot be jobless.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby dc2013 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:
dc2013 wrote:... In fact, I just turned down a great JD preferred job that paid well and was with a great company. ...

A better plan would probably have been to take that job but at the same time keep looking for an attorney position, but I can't fault you for focusing on your goals and staying positive. Good luck.


If it was just an ordinary job, I would have accepted and continued my search, but the company would have been pissed if I left in less than a year and I know people there so it would have been unprofessional to do that.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:15 am

Unemployed as yet 3L here, longtime lurker. Just an idea for people that I am doing to make ends meet while I job hunt (and hopefully give me some flexibility to find a job I'll be at least somewhat happy with):

I found a solo attorney who needed briefs written on an occasional basis (five or ten hours of work here and there) and paid fairly well to do it ($30/hr in a secondary market). I have that on my resume to show substantive legal work. I am also signed up for JD-required doc review projects with several doc review agencies. I may do a couple short-term projects while studying the bar, and will definitely do so after the bar while awaiting results. I don't plan to put the doc review work on my resume as yet, but I'm actually happy to be doing legal work, even tedious work, for $20-$30/hr rather than, say, tending bar or being a hostess (which is not bad work, but still). There is a chance that doc review in a specific area of law would prove useful to show experience in a particular area of law at midsize firms (eg, insurance defense) or for staff attorney jobs, so I COULD put it on my resume where appropriate, but don't have to. There is the off chance I meet an attorney with a useful connection or find full-time work through doc review/temping. It's a slight chance, but better than nothing.

If people could find a similar arrangement doing project work with a small firm or solo or even doing pro bono for a volunteer org, and then pay the bills with doc review, it might ease some financial worries while still having at least one resume building thing happening. The doc review places I've found let you work a fairly flexible schedule (say, four ten hour days instead of five eight hour days) which leaves time for meetings/networking/volunteering.

I realize none of the things I'm targeting (midlevel insurance defense firms, staff attorney at a big firm, solo/small firms) are ideal, and that doc review is often considered a dead end, but I'm trying to be realistic and use my degree to make a living while buying some time to network and figure out where I can be happy, given my realistic limited options. A small, friendly, brightly lit 4- or 5-attny general practice small firm near the courthouse in a nice small town is worlds different than a solo traffic attorney's strip mall office covered in takeout boxes, even if the pay isn't that different ... Not that I'm speaking from experience.

If you want to look into doc-review post bar, get signed up now. Hope that's helpful to someone!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:33 pm

TTH wrote:
kalvano wrote:Out of curiosity, how many people have active leads on Symplicity? I thought my OCS was full of shit when they said there would be several, but they (surprisingly) weren't. We get several good leads a week now.


Yeah, I'm seeing like one or two jobs a week that I'm applying for.

Question: I got this interview in-house at a P-E firm. I don't know what the position will entail yet, but I've often seen people discuss compliance work like it's something separate and distinct from straightforward in-house legal work. Can anyone speak to what that distinction is? Also, what would a P-E firm have an entry-level bro like myself doing.



That's pretty legit man. Btw, how'd you go about finding that job to apply for? Unfortunately, I'm having no luck tryna find good in-house jobs to apply for that require entry-level.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
TTH wrote:
kalvano wrote:Out of curiosity, how many people have active leads on Symplicity? I thought my OCS was full of shit when they said there would be several, but they (surprisingly) weren't. We get several good leads a week now.


Yeah, I'm seeing like one or two jobs a week that I'm applying for.

Question: I got this interview in-house at a P-E firm. I don't know what the position will entail yet, but I've often seen people discuss compliance work like it's something separate and distinct from straightforward in-house legal work. Can anyone speak to what that distinction is? Also, what would a P-E firm have an entry-level bro like myself doing.



That's pretty legit man. Btw, how'd you go about finding that job to apply for? Unfortunately, I'm having no luck tryna find good in-house jobs to apply for that require entry-level.


Stumbled into it, sort of. A prof whom I've take a few classes from sent my resume to his bro who is GC at the firm and they called me. Glad I didn't fuck around too much in those classes.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:49 am

Bah on the telephone isn't view today. Nice sure about those, but historically have not gone well.

Much more into the interview tomorrow. Small local firm, seriously good pay, interesting work.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:47 am

kalvano wrote:Bah on the telephone isn't view today. Nice sure about those, but historically have not gone well.

Much more into the interview tomorrow. Small local firm, seriously good pay, interesting work.


Congrats on getting the interview! Where did you get the job posting? Also, what range would you define as "seriously good pay?"

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:49 am

Symplicity and six figures.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:50 am

kalvano wrote:Symplicity and six figures.

Dood nice

You'll do a good job in the interview

You know whassup

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:22 pm

Want jerb so bad. Sounds interesting and fun and really engaging. WANT WANT WANT WANT.

Would want at half the salary. Want incredibly bad at the actual salary.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:46 pm

Developments in this upcoming interview. They asked me to clear my entire afternoon, and I'm meeting with five people. Of the five people, the GC is old friends with the Prof who referred me to the job. The number three guy in their legal dep't is an alum of my summer firm who called his bros here, who gave me glowing references, and the low guy on the totem pole was a classmate of an associate at my firm, and the associate put a word in for me with that guy.

I'm too beaten down at this point to have actual hope, but goddamnit if that's not a fortunate string of events.




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