The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Wed May 22, 2013 1:27 am

ajax adonis wrote:
Ludovico Technique wrote:Fellow Valeans I need some advice. I got a job interview for a fairly crappy position, a year long 35k nonprestigious fellowship. The problem is it is in Chicago and I am in California for my wedding. Wedding is the 26th, interview is on the 22nd. Is it worth flying back for? Money is pretty tight right now. But this is the first job interview I've had in months

I also got a response today from a firm asking for a writing sample. That's more than I've gotten in a long time too.


Enjoy your wedding. Ask if they'd be willing to do skype or phone/webcam. Or ask if you can delay it till after your honeymoon. You don't want to bother with flying and that crap before your wedding.


No. Don't fly there. You can sell cars and make more than $36,000.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Wed May 22, 2013 2:04 am

I feel like I can speak with authority when I say I would 100% rather make $35K at a fellowship than $50K selling cars.

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legalese_retard
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby legalese_retard » Wed May 22, 2013 10:24 am

kalvano wrote:So what are "staff attorney" positions at large firms? Not associate-track, from their job postings, but what do they do? Worth applying for? Or do they look bad on a résumé?


Have you considered applying for the "staff associate" position in the Plano office at Strasburger? I think pay is around $90K/year and the billables are 1800-1900. It sounds more substantive than your typical doc review gig.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 23, 2013 10:45 am

Fellow broskis (and sisters) of the vale, I am pulling back the curtains and climbin out, one year after graduation. Taking a job at a smaller boutique firm with a very bright future. Obtained the position entirely through networking and parlaying my work as an intern into potential growth for the firm. Networking. Feel the power!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 23, 2013 1:21 pm

Also leaving the Vale, so don't give up hope those that are still looking. I ended up taking a JD preferred job at a Fortune 100 company. It's not the BigLaw job making 100k+ I envisioned but it is a 40hr/week gig so there will be plenty of time for me to lead a relaxed life.

I just Google searched large companies in my city/surrounding area and drafted tailored cover letters along with my resume to positions that I thought I might qualify for. I was told by the HR person that even though a cover letter wasn't required it made my resume standout because only about 1 of 10 applications had a cover letter attached.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu May 23, 2013 1:33 pm

Congrats to both of you bros

Solid shit

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 24, 2013 11:00 am

Accepted an offer today from a small firm in a large (non-NY) market. Even negotiated to get a small bump in salary from their original offer. Now just have to pass the bar...

I found the position on an interest-area specific job board that a colleague suggested that I monitor. I've been reading this board for a while, so I just wanted to let y'all know there is still hope!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 28, 2013 1:10 pm

What happens when the loans need to be paid back? The fuck do we do if we don't have a job? Jeez.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 28, 2013 1:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What happens when the loans need to be paid back? The fuck do we do if we don't have a job? Jeez.

You can get the loans put in forbearance. Also, if you go on IBR (and I presume PAYE?), and your salary is below a certain level, you don't have to make payments (it's not technically forbearance - it counts as a payment, but your salary is so low, they don't make you actually pay).

dc2013
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby dc2013 » Wed May 29, 2013 11:59 pm

I have been in the Vale for a long time now and am still in the job hunt. Looking at past posts, I see a lot of anger, frustration, and depression. Trust me, I have been there. Since graduating last week, however, a lot of my stress has been lifted. I know that things will work out for me. We are not pathetic or failures. We are all smart and know how to work hard. If we do not get great jobs, or any jobs for that matter, we cannot sit around depressed. Sure, some of us will have to make our own way, but we have the tools to do it. I will be a fucking great attorney and nothing will stop me. The more rejections I receive, the more motivated I become. I save every rejection letter because one day I will laugh at all the firms that rejected me. My point is that we are all smart and can be successful, and we cannot forget that. Sure, we might have to work harder than others, but we will be better for it. However, if you get too down, you will not succeed. My advice, have the mentality that you will be great and nobody will stand in your way. If you truly want to be an attorney, do not settle for a non-attorney position. In fact, I just turned down a great JD preferred job that paid well and was with a great company. Go hard and stay positive and know that nobody can stop you except yourself.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu May 30, 2013 12:01 am

dc2013 wrote:I have been in the Vale for a long time now and am still in the job hunt. Looking at past posts, I see a lot of anger, frustration, and depression. Trust me, I have been there. Since graduating last week, however, a lot of my stress has been lifted. I know that things will work out for me. We are not pathetic or failures. We are all smart and know how to work hard. If we do not get great jobs, or any jobs for that matter, we cannot sit around depressed. Sure, some of us will have to make our own way, but we have the tools to do it. I will be a fucking great attorney and nothing will stop me. The more rejections I receive, the more motivated I become. I save every rejection letter because one day I will laugh at all the firms that rejected me. My point is that we are all smart and can be successful, and we cannot forget that. Sure, we might have to work harder than others, but we will be better for it. However, if you get too down, you will not succeed. My advice, have the mentality that you will be great and nobody will stand in your way. If you truly want to be an attorney, do not settle for a non-attorney position. In fact, I just turned down a great JD preferred job that paid well and was with a great company. Go hard and stay positive and know that nobody can stop you except yourself.

Damn bro

I wouldn't have turned that down

But I understand you gotta do you

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gwuorbust
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gwuorbust » Thu May 30, 2013 12:36 am

dc2013 wrote:I have been in the Vale for a long time now and am still in the job hunt. Looking at past posts, I see a lot of anger, frustration, and depression. Trust me, I have been there. Since graduating last week, however, a lot of my stress has been lifted. I know that things will work out for me. We are not pathetic or failures. We are all smart and know how to work hard. If we do not get great jobs, or any jobs for that matter, we cannot sit around depressed. Sure, some of us will have to make our own way, but we have the tools to do it. I will be a fucking great attorney and nothing will stop me. The more rejections I receive, the more motivated I become. I save every rejection letter because one day I will laugh at all the firms that rejected me. My point is that we are all smart and can be successful, and we cannot forget that. Sure, we might have to work harder than others, but we will be better for it. However, if you get too down, you will not succeed. My advice, have the mentality that you will be great and nobody will stand in your way. If you truly want to be an attorney, do not settle for a non-attorney position. In fact, I just turned down a great JD preferred job that paid well and was with a great company. Go hard and stay positive and know that nobody can stop you except yourself.


Good luck.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 30, 2013 1:43 pm

dc2013 wrote:... In fact, I just turned down a great JD preferred job that paid well and was with a great company. ...

A better plan would probably have been to take that job but at the same time keep looking for an attorney position, but I can't fault you for focusing on your goals and staying positive. Good luck.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Fri May 31, 2013 6:00 pm

Holy shit. I have a job interview. For the mythical "midlaw" job, too.

I'll probably poop my pants in the interview or something and royally screw it up.

NYstate
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Fri May 31, 2013 6:14 pm

kalvano wrote:Holy shit. I have a job interview. For the mythical "midlaw" job, too.

I'll probably poop my pants in the interview or something and royally screw it up.


I disagree. You are a confident and talented person ( at least from your posts.) You will kill it.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Fri May 31, 2013 6:31 pm

NYstate wrote:
kalvano wrote:Holy shit. I have a job interview. For the mythical "midlaw" job, too.

I'll probably poop my pants in the interview or something and royally screw it up.


I disagree. You are a confident and talented person ( at least from your posts.) You will kill it.

Yeah this

You know what's going on dood

Let us know how it goes

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 31, 2013 9:02 pm

Need a little input from this thread. I have posted a few times, but follow the thread regularly. I am a spring grad from a t30ish school and I'm in about the top 10-20%. I was just offered a position with a small firm but the base pay is very low (think below 40k, but it includes benefits). I'm not sure the pay will cover my expenses. Additionally, given the pay I might not be able to live in the city where the firm is located and might be forced to live my parents and commute (1-2 hour commute) in order to make it financially.

However, the firm is currently working on a huge case and would be bringing me on primiarly to help with that case. The case and the other work at the firm would give me great experience in an area that I am very interested in, complex litigation. The case is on a contingency basis and is worth tens of millions. There are more than two dozen defendents (all with deep pockets) in the case. Its a complex financial litigation case. The firm has enlisted the help of a larger reputable firm (well known in my home market) to help out with the case. The firm has offered to give me a percentage of whatever their take is on the case. By my estimates, and theirs, it should probably exceed 200k (possibly 2-5 times that amount). Additonally, they have offered to give me a cut of whatever additional business I bring into the firm. The attorneys at the firm seem great. They are very open and straight forward. They seem very intellligent and hard working. They also seem willing to mentor me quite a bit.

In the alternative, I have a good feeling about other jobs I applied to. Those other jobs would probably net me a larger and more steady income. I also have time to find a job because my current employer hired me on a contract basis for the summer for a decent amount of money.

So my question is this... should I go with the small firm or play it safe and search for other better paying jobs while still being paid well at my current employer?

Your advice is appreciated!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 31, 2013 9:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Need a little input from this thread. I have posted a few times, but follow the thread regularly. I am a spring grad from a t30ish school and I'm in about the top 10-20%. I was just offered a position with a small firm but the base pay is very low (think below 40k, but it includes benefits). I'm not sure the pay will cover my expenses. Additionally, given the pay I might not be able to live in the city where the firm is located and might be forced to live my parents and commute (1-2 hour commute) in order to make it financially.

However, the firm is currently working on a huge case and would be bringing me on primiarly to help with that case. The case and the other work at the firm would give me great experience in an area that I am very interested in, complex litigation. The case is on a contingency basis and is worth tens of millions. There are more than two dozen defendents (all with deep pockets) in the case. Its a complex financial litigation case. The firm has enlisted the help of a larger reputable firm (well known in my home market) to help out with the case. The firm has offered to give me a percentage of whatever their take is on the case. By my estimates, and theirs, it should probably exceed 200k (possibly 2-5 times that amount). Additonally, they have offered to give me a cut of whatever additional business I bring into the firm. The attorneys at the firm seem great. They are very open and straight forward. They seem very intellligent and hard working. They also seem willing to mentor me quite a bit.

In the alternative, I have a good feeling about other jobs I applied to. Those other jobs would probably net me a larger and more steady income. I also have time to find a job because my current employer hired me on a contract basis for the summer for a decent amount of money.

So my question is this... should I go with the small firm or play it safe and search for other better paying jobs while still being paid well at my current employer?

Your advice is appreciated!


Probably need to know how long you have to sit on the offer, because a good feeling isn't quite as good as having competing offers, and I'd also be curious to know how happy you'd be working at the other job. But it sounds like you're pretty stoked about this opportunity, and even though the commute and moving back home aren't going to be fun, it sounds like a good career experience.

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Joe Quincy
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Joe Quincy » Fri May 31, 2013 9:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Need a little input from this thread. I have posted a few times, but follow the thread regularly. I am a spring grad from a t30ish school and I'm in about the top 10-20%. I was just offered a position with a small firm but the base pay is very low (think below 40k, but it includes benefits). I'm not sure the pay will cover my expenses. Additionally, given the pay I might not be able to live in the city where the firm is located and might be forced to live my parents and commute (1-2 hour commute) in order to make it financially.

However, the firm is currently working on a huge case and would be bringing me on primiarly to help with that case. The case and the other work at the firm would give me great experience in an area that I am very interested in, complex litigation. The case is on a contingency basis and is worth tens of millions. There are more than two dozen defendents (all with deep pockets) in the case. Its a complex financial litigation case. The firm has enlisted the help of a larger reputable firm (well known in my home market) to help out with the case. The firm has offered to give me a percentage of whatever their take is on the case. By my estimates, and theirs, it should probably exceed 200k (possibly 2-5 times that amount). Additonally, they have offered to give me a cut of whatever additional business I bring into the firm. The attorneys at the firm seem great. They are very open and straight forward. They seem very intellligent and hard working. They also seem willing to mentor me quite a bit.

In the alternative, I have a good feeling about other jobs I applied to. Those other jobs would probably net me a larger and more steady income. I also have time to find a job because my current employer hired me on a contract basis for the summer for a decent amount of money.

So my question is this... should I go with the small firm or play it safe and search for other better paying jobs while still being paid well at my current employer?

Your advice is appreciated!


This may be one of those gambles worth taking. If it works out and they win you could end up with a nice payday. If they don't win you got good experience/networking/stuff to talk about in interviews. I guess the only downside would be if it doesn't work out and you end up not finding another legal job...how hard would it be to find a non-legal job like you have now?

And how dooable is living off the income? I'd cut expenses considerably and live in a shit hole apartment for now before I'd commute 1-2 hours a day. Have you looked on Craigslist for rooms to rent?

At some point you're going to need to take a risk to break into the legal market. I'd be leery relying on feelings about other jobs.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:36 pm

Brethren, I applied for an assistant general counsel job that I don't meet the minimum qualifications for, and have been asked for an interview. What should I put for salary requirements? Like I said, I don't even meet the minimum qualifications, so I don't want to say too big a number, but at the same time I don't want to cheat myself.

Any thoughts?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:11 pm

kalvano wrote:Brethren, I applied for an assistant general counsel job that I don't meet the minimum qualifications for, and have been asked for an interview. What should I put for salary requirements? Like I said, I don't even meet the minimum qualifications, so I don't want to say too big a number, but at the same time I don't want to cheat myself.

Any thoughts?

If you have already been offered the interview wait until then to discuss salary, and ask them what range they anticipated before giving your requirement. See if you can find a ballpark amount by searching the internet so you know what to expect and what you can reasonably ask for. They are interviewing you so they obviously think you are qualified so definitely don't sell yourself short.

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Joe Quincy
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Joe Quincy » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:15 pm

kalvano wrote:Brethren, I applied for an assistant general counsel job that I don't meet the minimum qualifications for, and have been asked for an interview. What should I put for salary requirements? Like I said, I don't even meet the minimum qualifications, so I don't want to say too big a number, but at the same time I don't want to cheat myself.

Any thoughts?


You could just put "Negotiable" or indicate a range. Generally, employers only use those to weed out people with unrealistic expectations. E.g. you put $70K and they are hiring at $30K.

Does the job listing indicate a salary range?

Edit: You could put "negotiable depending on the benefits package and job duties required of me" which I've seen used elsewhere.

http://www.getajobtips.com/2010/07/how-to-handle-salary-requests.html

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:24 pm

They asked me specifically what my requirements are.

I guess I'll just indicate a medium range and see what happens.

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Joe Quincy
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Joe Quincy » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:28 pm

kalvano wrote:They asked me specifically what my requirements are.

I guess I'll just indicate a medium range and see what happens.


They always ask, sometimes you can still say negotiable. You could try saying "I've made X in the past" but am unsure of the market rate for such a position. Otherwise give them a range (generally 10% above the minimum you'd work for and 10% below what you'd really like.

Also, have you tried something like salary.com to get an idea what they pay or what is normal in your market?

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:31 pm

Salary.com, Indeed, and others say their average salary is $70K, so I was going to put a little below and a little above that, negotiable dependent on the compensation package and travel requirements.




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