The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:22 am

Is it smart to accept the first offer you get? Should you accept it on the spot?

I'm worried that a firm would renege on an offer if I ask for time to consider.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:24 am

Hello-

I'm literally flying across the world (2017 grad living in Asia) to meet up with law school alumni around the Northeast for 2 weeks to network. Went to school in the south, no ties in Northeast but my bar.

How can I make the most of my meetings to try to actually get a JOB out of it? Looking for a 1st year position- job in Asia was just as a legal intern at an org.

SFSpartan

Silver
Posts: 589
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:01 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby SFSpartan » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it smart to accept the first offer you get? Should you accept it on the spot?

I'm worried that a firm would renege on an offer if I ask for time to consider.


TCR is to accept the first offer you get - if you're not super jazzed about it, you can always keep looking and back out if you get something better. Regardless, a job is a job.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:25 am

SFSpartan wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it smart to accept the first offer you get? Should you accept it on the spot?

I'm worried that a firm would renege on an offer if I ask for time to consider.


TCR is to accept the first offer you get - if you're not super jazzed about it, you can always keep looking and back out if you get something better. Regardless, a job is a job.



I definitely get that a job is a job...just wasn't sure if reneging is worse. That blacklists that market for me then, no?

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:27 pm

This is terrible advice and do not accept a job just to accept. I spent time in the Vale (2015 grad) and did not find a job until July of 2016, nearly a full year. I did some doc review gigs in the meantime to make some money. Accept a job that you are going to want to put on your resume, that is in a practice area you want to work in. Worst thing you can do for your career is start at a firm that whose practice has no relation to what you want to ultimately practice. It is nearly impossible to jump from doing insurance defense, for instance, to real estate a year later. You will be viewed by employers as fresh out of law school and in the same position you are currently in. Also, you will viewed as someone who has no idea wtf they are doing with their career and cannot be trusted. Employers want someone who at least seems interested/passionate about the field they are about the enter into. How the fuck are you going to portray that message accepting any gig?

I started doc review until I found a gig in real estate at a 3 person firm that focused on residential foreclosures. I sought out some commercial work independently and did my time there for nearly a year. I flipped that experience into a gig for a mid sized firm that did respectable deals with the big firms and have been here for a year. I have now interviewed with every "big law" firm in Florida and have gathered interest from big law firms in NC, ATL, CHI, BOS etc. Recently just received an offer from AmLaw 50, which I am going to accept.

This was only possible bc I stayed on my path in the area I wanted to practice. By leaving and practicing some BS job to just get a check you will not have any truthful nor authentic story during interviews that will separate you from other candidates. Your career is not set at the first job, the journey is long and most of you have just begun. Be patient, shit pans out if you keep hustling.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:55 am

The above is TCR. It sucks to be in the vale, but I quickly accepted a job at a large firm doing something I didn’t want to do (got the job after bar results). It was in leveraged finance. After a year, I had enough, but I couldn’t get anyone to look at me for general corporate / M&A (which was all I was doing in law school). Only way I got to lateral was to dock a year (so instead of starting as a 2016 grad, I had to start as a 2017 grad). Essentially I wasted a year of my life working at a job that made it even harder for me to eventually land where I wanted.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:This is terrible advice and do not accept a job just to accept. I spent time in the Vale (2015 grad) and did not find a job until July of 2016, nearly a full year. I did some doc review gigs in the meantime to make some money. Accept a job that you are going to want to put on your resume, that is in a practice area you want to work in. Worst thing you can do for your career is start at a firm that whose practice has no relation to what you want to ultimately practice. It is nearly impossible to jump from doing insurance defense, for instance, to real estate a year later. You will be viewed by employers as fresh out of law school and in the same position you are currently in. Also, you will viewed as someone who has no idea wtf they are doing with their career and cannot be trusted. Employers want someone who at least seems interested/passionate about the field they are about the enter into. How the fuck are you going to portray that message accepting any gig?

I started doc review until I found a gig in real estate at a 3 person firm that focused on residential foreclosures. I sought out some commercial work independently and did my time there for nearly a year. I flipped that experience into a gig for a mid sized firm that did respectable deals with the big firms and have been here for a year. I have now interviewed with every "big law" firm in Florida and have gathered interest from big law firms in NC, ATL, CHI, BOS etc. Recently just received an offer from AmLaw 50, which I am going to accept.

This was only possible bc I stayed on my path in the area I wanted to practice. By leaving and practicing some BS job to just get a check you will not have any truthful nor authentic story during interviews that will separate you from other candidates. Your career is not set at the first job, the journey is long and most of you have just begun. Be patient, shit pans out if you keep hustling.


Anonymous User wrote:The above is TCR. It sucks to be in the vale, but I quickly accepted a job at a large firm doing something I didn’t want to do (got the job after bar results). It was in leveraged finance. After a year, I had enough, but I couldn’t get anyone to look at me for general corporate / M&A (which was all I was doing in law school). Only way I got to lateral was to dock a year (so instead of starting as a 2016 grad, I had to start as a 2017 grad). Essentially I wasted a year of my life working at a job that made it even harder for me to eventually land where I wanted.


Thanks both for the above. I am really torn because the location of the firm would be great for my S.O. and the general umbrella is what I am interested in, but I am passionate about a niche area of law that I barely see postings for entry level attorneys (think exec comp/data privacy/craft beer etc). I am worried that I won't be able to find anything in that niche area

gortega86

New
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:55 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gortega86 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:39 am

Understood. Being that you want such a niche practice, you will have a very hard time finding an entry-level job. So your alternative is to find a broader practice where you will develop a skill set needed to practice in that niche a year or two down the line.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:46 pm

I just need to vent.

I'm at the end of my wits here. Below median at a T14. No journal. No law review. Used to be close to median but struck out at OCI and I was demoralized and depressed 2L. You can guess how that year went. Six figures in debt. Big law is such a longshot that it may as well be impossible.Too much in debt for mid law. Government work doesn't appeal to me whatsoever.

I've honestly given up. I screwed up majorly. I realize that this isn't anybody's fault but mine. I've just resigned to the fact that I'm not going to live the life I expected or wanted. Doc review is probably my future. Best of luck to you all.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:53 pm

Does anyone have access to the BYU job bank?? Some other people have asked but the more the merrier? Would really appreciate it!

lawhopeful100

Bronze
Posts: 392
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:28 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lawhopeful100 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I just need to vent.

I'm at the end of my wits here. Below median at a T14. No journal. No law review. Used to be close to median but struck out at OCI and I was demoralized and depressed 2L. You can guess how that year went. Six figures in debt. Big law is such a longshot that it may as well be impossible.Too much in debt for mid law. Government work doesn't appeal to me whatsoever.

I've honestly given up. I screwed up majorly. I realize that this isn't anybody's fault but mine. I've just resigned to the fact that I'm not going to live the life I expected or wanted. Doc review is probably my future. Best of luck to you all.

I understand the frustration, but it is way too early to give up. Way way too early. I had a friend graduate around median from a t-14 and it wasn’t until after graduation that he landed a big firm position. Myself and two of my friends all started out at small firms and have since lateralled to large firms. We are all 2016 grads btw. Just focus on applying to jobs as they come up this year and hang in there. Even if you don’t land big law straight out, aim for a firm that will have an overlap in skill set or practice area that will let you lateral later. Finally, idk what your exact debt is, but even at a midlaw firm you can get decent raises. The 25 person firm I started at paid 90k in a secondary market with 10k raises every year. It wasn’t big law money, but still enough that i had some flexibility.

gortega86

New
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:55 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gortega86 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:07 pm

lawhopeful100 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I just need to vent.

I'm at the end of my wits here. Below median at a T14. No journal. No law review. Used to be close to median but struck out at OCI and I was demoralized and depressed 2L. You can guess how that year went. Six figures in debt. Big law is such a longshot that it may as well be impossible.Too much in debt for mid law. Government work doesn't appeal to me whatsoever.

I've honestly given up. I screwed up majorly. I realize that this isn't anybody's fault but mine. I've just resigned to the fact that I'm not going to live the life I expected or wanted. Doc review is probably my future. Best of luck to you all.

I understand the frustration, but it is way too early to give up. Way way too early. I had a friend graduate around median from a t-14 and it wasn’t until after graduation that he landed a big firm position. Myself and two of my friends all started out at small firms and have since lateralled to large firms. We are all 2016 grads btw. Just focus on applying to jobs as they come up this year and hang in there. Even if you don’t land big law straight out, aim for a firm that will have an overlap in skill set or practice area that will let you lateral later. Finally, idk what your exact debt is, but even at a midlaw firm you can get decent raises. The 25 person firm I started at paid 90k in a small market with 10k raises every year. It wasn’t big law money, but still enough that i had some flexibility.


My exact experience as well. Median T20, went mid 30 person firm have lateralled to V50. Just get experience keep a look out for openings the market in your favor.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I'm at the end of my wits here. Below median at a T14. No journal. No law review. Used to be close to median but struck out at OCI and I was demoralized and depressed 2L. You can guess how that year went. Six figures in debt. Big law is such a longshot that it may as well be impossible.Too much in debt for mid law. Government work doesn't appeal to me whatsoever.


Big law is not really that much of a longshot in this economy if you're at a t-14, unless you are like sub 3.0 gpa. Though if you categorically reject both midlaw and government jobs you might not be in the right frame of mind to get a biglaw job outside of OCI.

TheFutureLawyer

Gold
Posts: 3925
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 2:28 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
tlsadmin3 wrote:
beckgirl123 wrote:
theswisswereright wrote:I know I’ve asked this elsewhere, but seriously, does anyone have the current BYU job bank login? My school’s career services is useless.


BUMP can someone update that please?



BYU Jobs:
Username: jrcbcougar
Password: cougarstrong


I just tried this, and it doesn’t seem to work. Maybe they’ve changed it since.


Looks like they keep it updated here, where you can also find other websites to search for jobs: https://ualr.edu/law/career-services/we ... -for-jobs/

Username: jrcbcougar
Password: quicklawmcgraw

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:44 pm

Ladies and gents, I am out of the Vale. Still interviewing since I could come across something better but this is a huge burden off of my mind. God bless.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ladies and gents, I am out of the Vale. Still interviewing since I could come across something better but this is a huge burden off of my mind. God bless.


Firm or in-house? Don't have to give much away, but just trying to figure out what the salary range is because I'm interviewing right now also and the firms/company's i'm interviewing with keep asking my desired salary and I'm not sure if I'm overestimating or underestimating. Mind sharing? Thanks and congrats!!

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ladies and gents, I am out of the Vale. Still interviewing since I could come across something better but this is a huge burden off of my mind. God bless.


Firm or in-house? Don't have to give much away, but just trying to figure out what the salary range is because I'm interviewing right now also and the firms/company's i'm interviewing with keep asking my desired salary and I'm not sure if I'm overestimating or underestimating. Mind sharing? Thanks and congrats!!


I am in a regional market and heading to a small - midsized firm so I doubt my situation would apply to yours. That being said if it would still be helpful to you I can share.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:51 pm

Just thought I post my advice/suggestion to help you guys out there in the vale.

First, background. I cannot even begin to tell you how much stress finding a job has put on me. It's daunting. During my 2L and 3L year, I was at a law clerk plaintiff law firm, who, through some oral agreements, I thought would hire me post-bar/graduation. That was not the case. Obviously, the employment was at-will. So I'm the idiot. The partner told me that he wasn't too sure if his firm can afford a new associate for the coming year. I wasn't too upset about not receiving the offer, I was very frustrated, however, that he didn't tell me until the end of my 3L year. What this meant was that I did very little job hunting during that time. I liked the firm, I getting paid well enough (albeit certainly not big law salary), and I enjoyed the practice area. So, I graduated from a T2/T3 in California. Took the California bar exam two weeks ago. And I started job hunting immediately thereafter.

What really surprised me, though, is the response rate. Over the last week, I've had four interviews. I have three more lined up next week. This was out ten applications I sent out. I targeted specific job postings. I made sure my resume was as perfect as it could be. I made sure my writing sample will impress them. (cover letters aren't important -- just make sure there aren't any mistakes on there)

These interviews were made up of firms of all sizes. I targeted the practice area I'm interested in, but I also applied to job postings that are just general litigation. I applied to both plaintiff and defense firms. What I cared most about is that it will offer me a position post-admission to the bar (as a side note, here's hoping I pass the godam CA bar exam). Further, I did not apply to every and all job postings. I did not apply to the ones that says "1-3 years of experience." But I did hear from some friends, and this forum, that there's a bit of success stories by doing that. I personally don't think so. But I don't want to be the one to discourage any applicants from applying. So do what you got to do.

This was very different from OCI. Maybe it's because my school's ranking was low, but I did not have success @ OCI. However, the interviews during this post-bar job search was much more successful. While the interviews at the bigger firms still consisted of meeting with up to 4-6 partners/attorneys, they did not invite me to lunch, they were very casual about the interview, they really inquired about my experience, writing sample, and my goals. I received offers either a day or two after the interview, or, on one occasion, on the day of.

Of course, these aren't big law salary. In fact, none of my interviews/offers include any specifics as to how much I will be paid post-admission to the bar. All it says is "will discuss compensation post admission". The plaintiff firms offered me $20-30 per hour (which I think it'll be $50k-70k post admission). The defense firms offered me $70k and a $90k while as a law clerk, and will "increase after admission."

So, perhaps this was a personal experience, but I was very stressed out. Going to a low ranked school was scary because the employment rate was low. I had debt. This vale showing other people's experiences added salt to the injury. But DON'T LOSE HOPE! There's many jobs out there. If my experience was any indication, at a state where I'm competing with many other great schools, and if I can do it, so can you!

If anyone has any questions, or if you need any help with reviewing your resumes (of course, you can probably remove your name/personal info on it), I can certainly help! Good luck everyone! You got this!

papalemon

New
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:08 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby papalemon » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ladies and gents, I am out of the Vale. Still interviewing since I could come across something better but this is a huge burden off of my mind. God bless.


Firm or in-house? Don't have to give much away, but just trying to figure out what the salary range is because I'm interviewing right now also and the firms/company's i'm interviewing with keep asking my desired salary and I'm not sure if I'm overestimating or underestimating. Mind sharing? Thanks and congrats!!


I am in a regional market and heading to a small - midsized firm so I doubt my situation would apply to yours. That being said if it would still be helpful to you I can share.


Congratulations! Mind PMing me? I would like to ask some questions if you don't mind.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:28 pm

2018 grad.

Interviewed today for my dream job.

Absolutely shit the fucking bed.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:2018 grad.

Interviewed today for my dream job.

Absolutely shit the fucking bed.


This is also the first interview I've had since the start of 2L summer.

I just want to say fuck the legal world and quit at this point.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:2018 grad.

Interviewed today for my dream job.

Absolutely shit the fucking bed.


Keep your head up and don't count yourself out just yet. In the meantime keep applying. I've been having more luck with in-house but not so much with biglaw (also a 2018 grad). If you don't mind me asking, was this a big law position? Wondering what your strategies were in obtaining an interview.

chevron321

New
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:54 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chevron321 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:11 am

Hey guys,

I just heard back from my 2L SA job and did not get an offer. The hiring partner said that they hired a federal clerk as a result they did not have a spot for me. He offered to write me a great recommendation and help me out, but 3L recruitment is beyond hard to navigate and some of my stats will be a huge hurdle. I had a big firm SA job my first summer with a different firm and am a URM. I attend a school which is barely in the top 100 with a generally low big firm placement. My GPA took a dunk as is around 3.2-3.3 range. However, I have moot court and my team placed in external competitions. Further, I have good work experience before law school.

I would appreciate any advice regarding my situation. I am aware I have been very fortunate to even have those positions given my stats and my school ranking, but I worked really hard and went above and beyond to get to know everyone at my firm. I am extremely upset since I heard the news, and cannot think straight. I am happy for my friends who have offers, but hearing about it reminds me of my failure. I would appreciate any advice on how I should go about this. Thank you in advance.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:31 am

Ditto the above anon. I listened to TLS and negotiated with a first offer for more time. I used that time well and got a better offer, both in terms of career trajectory and salary. Keep your heads up everyone. Try to apply to everything. You can't limit yourselves too much.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325753
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:2018 grad.

Interviewed today for my dream job.

Absolutely shit the fucking bed.



Hey, at least you had an interview. I'm a 2018 grad as well and I had one at the beginning of the summer, and nothing since.



Return to “Legal Employment?

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.