The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Pleasye
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pleasye » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:04 pm

Good luck with your decision Rink. I would have anxiety about moving somewhere like that as well, but you seem excited about the job.


also I keep reading that you're considering moving to a County owned by Black Lives Matter.

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rinkrat19
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:06 pm

Pleasye wrote:Good luck with your decision Rink. I would have anxiety about moving somewhere like that as well, but you seem excited about the job.


also I keep reading that you're considering moving to a County owned by Black Lives Matter.
:P
The Bureau of Land Management is such a large presence in Oregon that I had the opposite problem for a long time when Black Lives Matter started abbreviating themselves.

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ilovesf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ilovesf » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:15 pm

Pleasye wrote:Good luck with your decision Rink. I would have anxiety about moving somewhere like that as well, but you seem excited about the job.


also I keep reading that you're considering moving to a County owned by Black Lives Matter.

:lol:

Also it isn't permanent. 18 months will go by really quickly. Just try to think of it as a new adventure and challenge. Also, since there is nothing else to do, you. An catch up on every single tv show you've ever wanted to watch. That's my dream!

lawman84
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lawman84 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:31 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:I am about 80% sure I'm going to take the job I was referring to in the Ask TLS thread the other day. I have until tomorrow morning to let them know.

It's about a 5.5 hour drive (in good weather) into eastern Oregon (not the county where the Malheur Refuge occupation happened. Even smaller.) The town is about 1750 people, the county is under 8000. Beautiful country, mostly owned by BLM and NFS. 3 hours to the nearest Costco and small commercial airport; 3.5 hours to the nearest actual city (Boise). No movie theater in the county. (I have confirmed the availability of passable DSL service in town.)

The job is good. It's a VAWA grant-funded DDA position that prosecutes all domestic violence, sex abuse, child abuse, and child dependency in the county. Felonies basically immediately. Just me and the DA and 4 staff. Duties include community and law enforcement education and outreach on DV/abuse topics. In charge of applying to get the VAWA grant renewed at some point (currently in the middle of a 3-year grant). One police officer is partially funded by the grant, so 1/4 of his time is required to be at my disposal (in addition to whatever arises in the usual course of things).

I've interviewed with a bunch of other counties in the state and gotten no love for DDA jobs, even at Multnomah (Portland) where I worked for a year on a fellowship, because I didn't have enough experience. Got no response at all for the State DOJ jobs I applied for. I feel like this is too good of a job to turn down, even if it means living in the absolute middle of fucking nowhere for 18 months before I can consider leaving.

I literally feel sick to my stomach when I think about moving out there and being so far from everything. I can't play hockey there, and snowboarding will be limited to a few weekends at home or in Bend. I have a (mostly) irrational fear that Rinkdad is going to have a health crisis and die before I can get to him. It's DEEP Trumpkin country, with a crazy anti-Fed sheriff.

Convince me I can survive it, TLS! Pump me up to make the call to the DA to accept!


Sounds like a great opportunity. You might enjoy it. If not, it's only 18 months. It gets you necessary experience to get where you want to go. Plus, having a job beats not having a job.
Image

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Lincoln
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lincoln » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:57 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:Convince me I can survive it, TLS! Pump me up to make the call to the DA to accept!


1. 18 months? Fuck yeah. I probably wouldn't do it if it was a 10-year contract, but for a limited time it might make for a cool adventure and good experience.

2. Do you like the DA? Sounds like you will be working closely together, and if you hate the person, it could be terrible. But if you hit it off, it'll probably be a great working experience.

3. I have lived in dozens of places, from NYC to a town of 12,000 people where kids drove farming tractors to my school. Pretty much every place has its upsides and drawbacks. You just gotta make the best of what's on offer where you are.

Edited cause I didn't read subsequent posts.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:54 pm

I totally get your concerns, but I think it does sound like great experience (in the sense of learning a ton and getting experience dealing with stuff - doesn't sound like it will be exactly *fun* but at least meaningful?), and I think time goes a lot more quickly than you realize now. And honestly, if it's truly terrible awful unthinkably bad, you can always quit - you won't be worse off than you are now. A friend of mine did a similar grant-funded DV-focused job for a year and ended up getting a Legal Aid job after; she found it a really good way to get to know people (admittedly she was working in a city and not a tiny tiny town, but it gives you a kind of hook for networking, even from a distance/online).

FWIW, when I lived in the tiny town, it took a while for it to grate - initially there's a novelty to it. People are also VERY EXCITED to see a new face so it's amazingly easy to meet people. (One question though: Is it a church town? Will there be an expectation that you attend and is that not you? Because that kind of stuff really stands out in a small town.)

And the cliche that it's easy to get a job when you have a job already is totally true, IME. So you may not need to be there that long.

Also (though this may not be reassuring) in future you can absolutely rebuff any criticisms that you are a coastal elite living in a bubble who doesn't understand any other kinds of voters. :P

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rinkrat19
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:22 pm

I just called to accept the job.

Now to figure out how to move to the boonies in 3 weeks.
Last night I sent a rental application to a landlord for a little house. 2 bedrooms for $625/mo.

Re: the job. I get one week overlap with the guy I'm replacing and then I'll be handling felonies immediately. Yikes.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:30 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:I just called to accept the job.

Now to figure out how to move to the boonies in 3 weeks.
Last night I sent a rental application to a landlord for a little house. 2 bedrooms for $625/mo.

Re: the job. I get one week overlap with the guy I'm replacing and then I'll be handling felonies immediately. Yikes.


Worked in the middle of nowhere during my 2L summer for 4 months.

Had the greatest time ever.
Granted, it was for 4 months only and there were other interns there my age that I could hang around with. Also, we had a movie theater in town so probably not like your situation.

I spent my weekends doing road trip with friend I made in town.

Try to have fun and you probably will

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ilovesf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ilovesf » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:36 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:I just called to accept the job.

Now to figure out how to move to the boonies in 3 weeks.
Last night I sent a rental application to a landlord for a little house. 2 bedrooms for $625/mo.

Re: the job. I get one week overlap with the guy I'm replacing and then I'll be handling felonies immediately. Yikes.

Congrats on finding a job! Yay

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:13 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:I just called to accept the job.

Now to figure out how to move to the boonies in 3 weeks.
Last night I sent a rental application to a landlord for a little house. 2 bedrooms for $625/mo.

Re: the job. I get one week overlap with the guy I'm replacing and then I'll be handling felonies immediately. Yikes.


That nice cost of living though!

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ManoftheHour
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ManoftheHour » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:A firm (mid-law) I really want to work out reached out to me asking for times to interview - I e-mailed them back with some times that fit my schedule, and they never got back to me. Its been three days - it feels pretty weird. Should I reach out to them or follow-up? Has anyone been in this situation before? I'm worried they don't want to interview me anymore :(


I would reach out to them if the time that they said they'd get back to you has passed or one week or two after you had last contact. There could be a variety of reasons why it is delayed. I am in a similar situation. I did a screening interview for a firm and a few days later, the recruiter contacted me and said she'd get back to me "by the end of the week with the next steps." She never did. The following week, I sent her a follow up. Two days later, she apologized and told me that since in our conversation we discussed how I was going to be starting later (after the bar instead of summer), the process is shifted to after Thanksgiving for my next steps.

I also had a delayed callback for another firm earlier last month and it turned out that it was because the interviewing partners were busy. I was pretty worried because they were supposed to send me information about the office visit and the day of the visit kept creeping closer and I never got any information. Keep your head up and follow up after a reasonable amount of time has passed.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:48 pm

Hey guys,

Thank you for the encouraging thread. If you guys work at a firm as a paralegal, and are later promoted to "associate" upon passing the bar is it standard to just list your whole work history with the firm as an "associate," or should you break it up into "paralegal / associate"?

Thank you

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ManoftheHour
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ManoftheHour » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:Hey guys,

Thank you for the encouraging thread. If you guys work at a firm as a paralegal, and are later promoted to "associate" upon passing the bar is it standard to just list your whole work history with the firm as an "associate," or should you break it up into "paralegal / associate"?

Thank you

Break it up. You don't have to make an entire new section. Just do:

Law Firm
Associate [Date]
Paralegal [Date]


Or some variation of that. I feel like if you just listed associate and included the dates in which you were a paralegal, it might make it look like you've been practicing longer as an associate than you have.

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:34 am

ManoftheHour wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hey guys,

Thank you for the encouraging thread. If you guys work at a firm as a paralegal, and are later promoted to "associate" upon passing the bar is it standard to just list your whole work history with the firm as an "associate," or should you break it up into "paralegal / associate"?

Thank you

Break it up. You don't have to make an entire new section. Just do:

Law Firm
Associate [Date]
Paralegal [Date]


Or some variation of that. I feel like if you just listed associate and included the dates in which you were a paralegal, it might make it look like you've been practicing longer as an associate than you have.


Yep. This is how I have it for an Associate + Law Clerk position that I held.

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FSK
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FSK » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:04 am

Just an update of hope: I turned my no offer into a shift in goals, and after some SERIOUS hustle, I was able to find a state trial clerkship and turn that into an offer from DOJ honors. You just have to keep at it. You might not get a lucky (repeatedly) as I have, but just keep working hard, and make sure you set real goals for youself

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:38 am

FSK wrote:Just an update of hope: I turned my no offer into a shift in goals, and after some SERIOUS hustle, I was able to find a state trial clerkship and turn that into an offer from DOJ honors. You just have to keep at it. You might not get a lucky (repeatedly) as I have, but just keep working hard, and make sure you set real goals for youself


Congrats.

And I hate to be a downer, but fyi, Trump has said he'll put a hiring freeze into effect when he comes into office. Reagan did the same thing. So if you're not on payroll by Jan. 20, it might not happen.

I'm in the same boat, at a different agency (having recently applied for a permanent position).

PotLuck
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby PotLuck » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:54 am

Update

Was lucky enough to net a state trial level judicial clerkship interview and an interview at a large company for an in-house position as a corporate attorney. Wish me luck! IF I was lucky enough to be offered both, I'm not sure what I would pick. I want to do corporate transactional work, and the pay for the company is more than double the clerkship. But I can't ignore the value of a judicial clerkship, those opportunities can seriously sky rocket your legal career, even at the state trial level. In my town I know of at least 3 people who clerked for similar judges and ended up in big law from the connections and experience.

Any input on this? I know it may not be likely I'd get offered both, but I want to be prepared in case I'm lucky and either wants to move quickly.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:04 am

TheFutureLawyer wrote:
FSK wrote:Just an update of hope: I turned my no offer into a shift in goals, and after some SERIOUS hustle, I was able to find a state trial clerkship and turn that into an offer from DOJ honors. You just have to keep at it. You might not get a lucky (repeatedly) as I have, but just keep working hard, and make sure you set real goals for youself


Congrats.

And I hate to be a downer, but fyi, Trump has said he'll put a hiring freeze into effect when he comes into office. Reagan did the same thing. So if you're not on payroll by Jan. 20, it might not happen.

I'm in the same boat, at a different agency (having recently applied for a permanent position).

Trump has said a shitload of things. He said this one while campaigning and I haven't seen anything yet to suggest this is actually a priority for him. And the honors money is already allocated. Obviously it's worth being aware of but there's no point worrying about it right now.

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bk1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:09 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:
FSK wrote:Just an update of hope: I turned my no offer into a shift in goals, and after some SERIOUS hustle, I was able to find a state trial clerkship and turn that into an offer from DOJ honors. You just have to keep at it. You might not get a lucky (repeatedly) as I have, but just keep working hard, and make sure you set real goals for youself


Congrats.

And I hate to be a downer, but fyi, Trump has said he'll put a hiring freeze into effect when he comes into office. Reagan did the same thing. So if you're not on payroll by Jan. 20, it might not happen.

I'm in the same boat, at a different agency (having recently applied for a permanent position).

Trump has said a shitload of things. He said this one while campaigning and I haven't seen anything yet to suggest this is actually a priority for him. And the honors money is already allocated. Obviously it's worth being aware of but there's no point worrying about it right now.

Not to be a downer (again) but it is one of the points he put in his 100 day plan the day after the election. Not saying he's likely to do it (who the fuck knows).

Anyways, I agree that it's pointless to worry about. It either will or won't happen and nobody has a crystal ball to tell the outcome. And worrying won't change anything.

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FSK
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FSK » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:32 pm

bk1 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:
FSK wrote:Just an update of hope: I turned my no offer into a shift in goals, and after some SERIOUS hustle, I was able to find a state trial clerkship and turn that into an offer from DOJ honors. You just have to keep at it. You might not get a lucky (repeatedly) as I have, but just keep working hard, and make sure you set real goals for youself


Congrats.

And I hate to be a downer, but fyi, Trump has said he'll put a hiring freeze into effect when he comes into office. Reagan did the same thing. So if you're not on payroll by Jan. 20, it might not happen.

I'm in the same boat, at a different agency (having recently applied for a permanent position).

Trump has said a shitload of things. He said this one while campaigning and I haven't seen anything yet to suggest this is actually a priority for him. And the honors money is already allocated. Obviously it's worth being aware of but there's no point worrying about it right now.

Not to be a downer (again) but it is one of the points he put in his 100 day plan the day after the election. Not saying he's likely to do it (who the fuck knows).

Anyways, I agree that it's pointless to worry about. It either will or won't happen and nobody has a crystal ball to tell the outcome. And worrying won't change anything.


Yeah I've done my homework, haha. I'm actually going on an interview for another honors position with an independent agency to try to avoid this fear. I have law firm stuff in the works as a third plan.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:32 pm

Oh, right, sorry. :oops: I clearly don't want to remember that he said anything about this. (Although there are also the exceptions, and who knows what will fall into those categories. It's also hard to take the list seriously when it requires eliminating two federal regulations for every new regulation created, but a hiring freeze is admittedly a lot easier than that one.)

gerrod11
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gerrod11 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:12 am

Recently, I accepted a fellowship position with my state's attorney general's office. The fellowship lasts only one year and is partly funded by my law school. Although not ideal, I am excited to finally have something lined up even if its only for one year. The fellowship seems like great substantive experience with big responsibility early on. I am bound to stay in the position for one year and was required to withdraw all my pending employment applications as a condition of accepting the offer. I had an interview lined up at a mid-size law firm but had to withdraw because the fellowship was unwilling to extend my deadline. I was wondering if anyone else had any experience with these types of fellowships? Also, when should I start the dreaded job search process again. Lastly, is a “fellowship” looked down upon when seeking something more permanent. Thanks for all your help. This thread has been a big resource for me.

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Lincoln
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lincoln » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:33 pm

PotLuck wrote:Update

Was lucky enough to net a state trial level judicial clerkship interview and an interview at a large company for an in-house position as a corporate attorney. Wish me luck! IF I was lucky enough to be offered both, I'm not sure what I would pick. I want to do corporate transactional work, and the pay for the company is more than double the clerkship. But I can't ignore the value of a judicial clerkship, those opportunities can seriously sky rocket your legal career, even at the state trial level. In my town I know of at least 3 people who clerked for similar judges and ended up in big law from the connections and experience.

Any input on this? I know it may not be likely I'd get offered both, but I want to be prepared in case I'm lucky and either wants to move quickly.


Given the bolded, I don't see any reason for not taking the in-house gig if you get it.

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Danger Zone
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Danger Zone » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:18 pm

FWIW, as a second year Corp associate, I'd kill for that in house position.

andythefir
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby andythefir » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:36 pm

Re the trump hiring freeze, I really don't think the DOJ will see cuts. First, if the DOJ isn't related to public safety, I don't know what is. Second, cutting DOJ funding makes 0 sense for a self proclaimed law and order guy. Finally, the AG was one of the first picks to come out, which tells me it's unlikely to get cut. Per the Washington Post: "So a selective hiring freeze may be more realistic, Trump advisers say, where agencies that Republicans dislike shrink and ones they like grow."

I could see a longer probationary period, fewer labor protections, and so on, but someone's got to do all the prosecuting trump has promised to do.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pow ... 9f8bf590e2




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