The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any advice on dealing with feeling of hopelessness? I'm at CCN, above median, and got no offered from my 2L SA. I still have one callback in a bit but I know I should be mass sending out apps but... i just feel really down and like there's no chance of getting something that isn't posted. I've been having some really dark thoughts in general and just... fuck. This isn't what they say happens if you go to a school like this, ya know?


These things happen. It isn't a reflection on you as a person or your worth. Go talk to someone and get some help. I was in your boat and know how you feel. The best thing you can do for yourself and your professional future is to get whatever help you may need now.


I second this. Just gotta do whatever you can to not alter your self worth based on getting no offered from your 2L SA. At least now you won't have to risk taking a good job for granted and you'll be better able to handle any other adversity that will inevitably pop up throughout a legal career, this is something an SA with an offer likely won't be able to handle as well as someone that was no offered. In all likelihood if you're at CCN and above median, once you have bar results in hand firms would be insane not to hire you and federal clerkships could still be on the table. Also Sotomayer was no offered by her 2L SA, her legal career turned out okay.

andythefir
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby andythefir » Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any advice on dealing with feeling of hopelessness? I'm at CCN, above median, and got no offered from my 2L SA. I still have one callback in a bit but I know I should be mass sending out apps but... i just feel really down and like there's no chance of getting something that isn't posted. I've been having some really dark thoughts in general and just... fuck. This isn't what they say happens if you go to a school like this, ya know?


Getting no-offered was the best thing that ever happened to me. I hated working in a firm in general, hated the firm itself, and so did everyone in the firm. I ended up going to a job that my law school told me was undesirable, and I loved every minute of it. I'm now on my way to the DOJ before any of my peers who are doing their time in biglaw.

Your school's CDO has 2 objectives: (1) maximize biglaw placement, (2) maximize general employment. By far the least effort-intensive way to achieve those goals is to funnel as many students as possible into OCI, regardless of whether the students want those jobs or would be good fits in them. They therefore have an incentive to tell you that you must find a biglaw job through OCI, and that failure to do so will mean professional demise.

This board also doubles down on that perspective. If you're authentically happy in biglaw, then congrats, but the studies all show you're in the minority. If you're flexible about location, you can find work as an attorney somewhere.

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FSK
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FSK » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:37 pm

Yeah my no offer was a wakeup call of "Oh shit lawfirms suck dick." I ended up clerking & changing my path entirely. It was very personally difficult, but I'm much more in tune with my own goals and am a strong, more resilient person for having gone through it.

But it was very, very difficult. And y'all can make it through too.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby grixxlybear99 » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:42 pm

Above median t14 no offered as well. Ended up w DOJ Honors. The no offer was similarly the best thing that ever happened to me.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:BYU password is now cougs16


Is BYU username still jobfind? password cougs16 isn't working for me

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:22 am

andythefir wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any advice on dealing with feeling of hopelessness? I'm at CCN, above median, and got no offered from my 2L SA. I still have one callback in a bit but I know I should be mass sending out apps but... i just feel really down and like there's no chance of getting something that isn't posted. I've been having some really dark thoughts in general and just... fuck. This isn't what they say happens if you go to a school like this, ya know?


Getting no-offered was the best thing that ever happened to me. I hated working in a firm in general, hated the firm itself, and so did everyone in the firm. I ended up going to a job that my law school told me was undesirable, and I loved every minute of it. I'm now on my way to the DOJ before any of my peers who are doing their time in biglaw.

Your school's CDO has 2 objectives: (1) maximize biglaw placement, (2) maximize general employment. By far the least effort-intensive way to achieve those goals is to funnel as many students as possible into OCI, regardless of whether the students want those jobs or would be good fits in them. They therefore have an incentive to tell you that you must find a biglaw job through OCI, and that failure to do so will mean professional demise.

This board also doubles down on that perspective. If you're authentically happy in biglaw, then congrats, but the studies all show you're in the minority. If you're flexible about location, you can find work as an attorney somewhere.


Love this. Congrats to you man.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby EvelynS » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:43 pm

Just simply venting...I am so frustrated with these law firms. Just give me a damn answer instead of radio silence. It has been more than a month since the interview, I contacted the HR and no response whatsoever. So annoying. Is it that hard to give me a some sort of answer?! Yes, No, Maybe...

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any advice on dealing with feeling of hopelessness? I'm at CCN, above median, and got no offered from my 2L SA. I still have one callback in a bit but I know I should be mass sending out apps but... i just feel really down and like there's no chance of getting something that isn't posted. I've been having some really dark thoughts in general and just... fuck. This isn't what they say happens if you go to a school like this, ya know?



1) This is true:
FSK wrote:Yeah my no offer was a wakeup call of "Oh shit lawfirms suck dick."



2) This is true:
Anonymous User wrote:These things happen. It isn't a reflection on you as a person or your worth.



I say that as someone who had a couple of shitty law firm jobs for nearly two years out of law school before landing a great gig with the government. It definitely sucks when your skills aren't recognized by your employer, but that happens sometimes (happened with one or two internships I had as well). It could just be that they never really put you to good use and thus never saw what you were capable of, or they're just not very good lawyers themselves and don't know what a good legal brief looks like. (Or, in your case, maybe they liked your work but couldn't hire you for their own reasons).

Keep plugging away at it, you'll find something better.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby EvelynS » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:06 pm

It has been more than a year since I graduated and still no job. I feel so hopeless. I don't even know where to find strength to keep going. I had an interview at a firm in August. After more than a month of radio silence, I just received a rejection email. I have nothing else lined up, and the more I stay unemployed the harder it gets to even get an interview (let alone explain the gap). How do you guys keep going? I feel like no matter what I do, I always get a rejection. :cry:

andythefir
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby andythefir » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:17 pm

EvelynS wrote:It has been more than a year since I graduated and still no job. I feel so hopeless. I don't even know where to find strength to keep going. I had an interview at a firm in August. After more than a month of radio silence, I just received a rejection email. I have nothing else lined up, and the more I stay unemployed the harder it gets to even get an interview (let alone explain the gap). How do you guys keep going? I feel like no matter what I do, I always get a rejection. :cry:


Call your local DA, PD, judges, AG, any and all public interest you can think of and ask if they will let you work for free. Gets you real skills, experience, and professional relationships, and it erases the resume gap. Apply to rural and western places.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kckool7 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:29 pm

It took several months after graduating from a low end T14, but I finally have a legal job. Happy, but honestly pure relief is the dominant emotion. Keep plugging guys, as the top candidates keep getting scooped up, we only get more and more attractive!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any advice on dealing with feeling of hopelessness? I'm at CCN, above median, and got no offered from my 2L SA. I still have one callback in a bit but I know I should be mass sending out apps but... i just feel really down and like there's no chance of getting something that isn't posted. I've been having some really dark thoughts in general and just... fuck. This isn't what they say happens if you go to a school like this, ya know?


These things happen. It isn't a reflection on you as a person or your worth. Go talk to someone and get some help. I was in your boat and know how you feel. The best thing you can do for yourself and your professional future is to get whatever help you may need now.


I second this. Just gotta do whatever you can to not alter your self worth based on getting no offered from your 2L SA. At least now you won't have to risk taking a good job for granted and you'll be better able to handle any other adversity that will inevitably pop up throughout a legal career, this is something an SA with an offer likely won't be able to handle as well as someone that was no offered. In all likelihood if you're at CCN and above median, once you have bar results in hand firms would be insane not to hire you and federal clerkships could still be on the table. Also Sotomayer was no offered by her 2L SA, her legal career turned out okay.


Not a 3L (2L) but I can definitely relate to the feelings you described here. I struck out from even finding a 2L SA until about 2 weeks ago when a mass mail turned into an offer. Did 300+ apps, 30+ interviews, 1 offer. T14. Went through same thoughts/depression

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:11 pm

Got an internship with a govt agency. Applied to govt agency for job after graduation. Felt great. Remembered this govt job is more competitive than big law. Seriously contemplated applying at mcdonalds. It's only Wednesday.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:34 pm

Am rebuilding a county job application form from scratch before I even attempt to fill it out because whoever "designed" (I use the word very loosely) this form is definitely a Boomer and only vaguely familiar with even the most basic Word functions. How am I the unemployed one in this equation?

I would seriously fire anyone who uses spaces to arrange shit on a page. Goddamn right I'm elitist.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:18 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:Am rebuilding a county job application form from scratch before I even attempt to fill it out because whoever "designed" (I use the word very loosely) this form is definitely a Boomer and only vaguely familiar with even the most basic Word functions. How am I the unemployed one in this equation?

I would seriously fire anyone who uses spaces to arrange shit on a page. Goddamn right I'm elitist.




(yes I know it's not the same thing)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby PotLuck » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:58 pm

Hey All,

I was looking for a little bit of advice. I recently graduated in 2016 from a top regional school (finishing in top 30%) and passed the bar. Unsurprisingly, I have been unable to find a job. I have been applying to everything under the sun but have had very few interviews. I was thinking about opening up my own shop but for the obvious reasons I am skeptical about succeeding in such a limited job market. I was basically offered a paralegal position with the fed gov and I was wondering if it's worth taking or whether I should hold out and wait for something else? The pay is decent and I do have quite a bit of loans.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby iliketurtles123 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:40 am

PotLuck wrote:Hey All,

I was looking for a little bit of advice. I recently graduated in 2016 from a top regional school (finishing in top 30%) and passed the bar. Unsurprisingly, I have been unable to find a job. I have been applying to everything under the sun but have had very few interviews. I was thinking about opening up my own shop but for the obvious reasons I am skeptical about succeeding in such a limited job market. I was basically offered a paralegal position with the fed gov and I was wondering if it's worth taking or whether I should hold out and wait for something else? The pay is decent and I do have quite a bit of loans.

Any advice would be much appreciated.


Fed gov = PSLF or LRAP

If your school's LRAP is good I'd take it. Otherwise, if you think you can stick out PI or Gov. for 10 years, I'd do it as well.

Also I know a couple people who went from paralegal -> attorney (hired as a paralegal with a JD). It doesn't happen at big law firms but seems more common in-house or gov.

edit: I think the position itself matters as well. If you aren't sure about sticking with gov. for 10 years and the position is totally unrelated to what you really want to do, the answer is less certain

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby andythefir » Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:25 pm

PotLuck wrote:Hey All,

I was looking for a little bit of advice. I recently graduated in 2016 from a top regional school (finishing in top 30%) and passed the bar. Unsurprisingly, I have been unable to find a job. I have been applying to everything under the sun but have had very few interviews. I was thinking about opening up my own shop but for the obvious reasons I am skeptical about succeeding in such a limited job market. I was basically offered a paralegal position with the fed gov and I was wondering if it's worth taking or whether I should hold out and wait for something else? The pay is decent and I do have quite a bit of loans.

Any advice would be much appreciated.


Depends on what the title of the job is. "Contract specialist" or "Claims adjuster" would be solid, "paralegal" not so much.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby PotLuck » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:12 pm

Title of the job is Paralegal Specialist. I want to work in public service, so I'm too concerned about big law tbh. The big thing was that it isn't an Attorney position, but rather a support position. My school's LRAP would not apply since this pay is well over the required LRAP amount.

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anon sequitur
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby anon sequitur » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:25 pm

I think it's still really way too early for a 2016 grad with good grades from a top regional school to take a non lawyer job, especially one that's not even JD preferred. You have barely had enough time to put out applications as a barred attorney, that's a big difference in your job search. I'd take a state-court trial clerkship over any paralegal job. If your finances allow it, or you could move in with your parents or something, I'd take a volunteer legal position with legal aid or a judge over that. You're just not going to improve your legal job prospects that much with a non-lawyer job. You'd be pinning everything on the possibility of internal promotion to attorney with your current organization. I honestly don't know how rare paralegal --> attorney from a federal employer is, but it's definitely not a typical progression. I mean, just according to the rules of federal hiring, you could work as a paralegal for 10 years, be the best damn employee they ever had, and you'd still only be qualified to take an entry level position, and have to compete against applicants who have experience as lawyers.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby PotLuck » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:03 pm

FWIW it starts at GS-11 and they are trying to get people with JDs to fill the spot. But yeah, you are probably right - it is likely too soon to start worrying about not having a job. I'm just starting to feel that financial struggle now that my clerkship ended haha

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby trebekismyhero » Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:32 pm

A GS-11 is pretty hard to turn down because that is better than most jobs you'd get in the private sector and close to what JDs do get paid starting in the FedGov. Is there any flexibility on the job title or likelihood that you can move to an attorney position in the next year?

But agree it just seems too early to take a non-attorney position, especially top 30% from a T1.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:45 pm

PotLuck wrote:Title of the job is Paralegal Specialist. I want to work in public service, so I'm too concerned about big law tbh. The big thing was that it isn't an Attorney position, but rather a support position. My school's LRAP would not apply since this pay is well over the required LRAP amount.


I would take the job if you don't have any offers. You are presently jobless and graduated six months ago. This would get the federal government on your resume. You can possibly transfer within the agency. Ask them. Or maybe they promote you. Nonetheless, you will be employed and can continue to look outside of the government with your credentials.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:07 pm

GS-11 money is good and working for the government will be great to help you qualify for repayment programs. But I personally think you're better off waiting for an attorney position.

1. No, you can't negotiate the title. I know you didn't ask about this, but just laying this out.
2. Paralegals in the government, depending on agency, will end up with very few skills you could speak upon later on.
3. Usually, in order for you to go from paralegal to attorney within the same agency, a position would have to be open and then you could apply for it. If it's at the GS 11, that's relatively easy. If it would mean a promotion, the position would have to be advertised. If it's for a different agency, you would be competing with everyone else who applies.
4. I really don't see the point in giving up this early. But if you're financial situation is such that you can't wait, then that makes sense. Do what's best for you.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby PotLuck » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:19 pm

Fwiw, I currently clerk with them part time while I am job hunting. They are looking to fill the position with a JD (if possible) and basically would want me to do the same type of work I'm doing now, in addition to the paralegal duties. Going from paralegal to attorney at this agency is basically impossible. It might be too early for this, but it's that fear of missing out when the market seems so sparse that has me worried.




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