The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

[rg5146]

3L at T14, median class rank:

- Struck out at 2L OCI, MM campaign led to one SA offer, which I accepted, at a small firm (<100 attorneys) in rural area not located in either my home market or school's market.
- No-offered at end of summer. Feedback was minimal but seemed generally positive, especially in regards to work product. They definitely placed significant weight on ties to the area, of which I had none.
- None of my bids were selected for the few 3L OCI slots.
- In the midst of a MM campaign of NALP firms, almost 500 emails sent. No interviews so far and a few people have responded but immediately ask if I received an offer at the end of my SA. I try to explain this in the most positive way, but so far no one has responded after my answer to that question.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should be going about obtaining an offer for any JD-required employment before I graduate in May? or is it likely that I will remain offer-less until bar results come back next year?

[Anonymous User]

3L at T14, median class rank:

- Struck out at 2L OCI, MM campaign led to one SA offer, which I accepted, at a small firm (<100 attorneys) in rural area not located in either my home market or school's market.
- No-offered at end of summer. Feedback was minimal but seemed generally positive, especially in regards to work product. They definitely placed significant weight on ties to the area, of which I had none.
- None of my bids were selected for the few 3L OCI slots.
- In the midst of a MM campaign of NALP firms, almost 500 emails sent. No interviews so far and a few people have responded but immediately ask if I received an offer at the end of my SA. I try to explain this in the most positive way, but so far no one has responded after my answer to that question.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should be going about obtaining an offer for any JD-required employment before I graduate in May? or is it likely that I will remain offer-less until bar results come back next year?

I was also no-offered. I sympathize.

Everyone is going to ask about it. I was able to sell it as an economic/business no offer since my 2L summer firm was looking at a big dropoff in work after a major case they were working on came to a close. I think this is probably the best way to spin it. "They said I great, but that they didn't have enough work in that office to support another associate. I'll be happy to provide references from that office to confirm."

[rg5146]

3L at T14, median class rank:

- Struck out at 2L OCI, MM campaign led to one SA offer, which I accepted, at a small firm (<100 attorneys) in rural area not located in either my home market or school's market.
- No-offered at end of summer. Feedback was minimal but seemed generally positive, especially in regards to work product. They definitely placed significant weight on ties to the area, of which I had none.
- None of my bids were selected for the few 3L OCI slots.
- In the midst of a MM campaign of NALP firms, almost 500 emails sent. No interviews so far and a few people have responded but immediately ask if I received an offer at the end of my SA. I try to explain this in the most positive way, but so far no one has responded after my answer to that question.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should be going about obtaining an offer for any JD-required employment before I graduate in May? or is it likely that I will remain offer-less until bar results come back next year?

I was also no-offered. I sympathize.

Everyone is going to ask about it. I was able to sell it as an economic/business no offer since my 2L summer firm was looking at a big dropoff in work after a major case they were working on came to a close. I think this is probably the best way to spin it. "They said I great, but that they didn't have enough work in that office to support another associate. I'll be happy to provide references from that office to confirm."

Thanks for the advice, I will most likely try to spin in that way next time. That may also be partially what actually happened, I just really don't know because of the extreme lack of detail I was provided. Either way I'm almost certain I have some decent references that can be contacted at the firm. My biggest issue at this point is even getting an interview. Does anyone have any insight on when mid-size firms, or even biglaw, evaluate their hiring needs after they hear back from their summer associate offers?

[Anonymous User]

Hey, does anyone know the new login information for the BYU job bank? The lawschool2016 one doesn't work anymore.

[andythefir]

3L at T14, median class rank:

- Struck out at 2L OCI, MM campaign led to one SA offer, which I accepted, at a small firm (<100 attorneys) in rural area not located in either my home market or school's market.
- No-offered at end of summer. Feedback was minimal but seemed generally positive, especially in regards to work product. They definitely placed significant weight on ties to the area, of which I had none.
- None of my bids were selected for the few 3L OCI slots.
- In the midst of a MM campaign of NALP firms, almost 500 emails sent. No interviews so far and a few people have responded but immediately ask if I received an offer at the end of my SA. I try to explain this in the most positive way, but so far no one has responded after my answer to that question.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should be going about obtaining an offer for any JD-required employment before I graduate in May? or is it likely that I will remain offer-less until bar results come back next year?

I was also no-offered. I sympathize.

Everyone is going to ask about it. I was able to sell it as an economic/business no offer since my 2L summer firm was looking at a big dropoff in work after a major case they were working on came to a close. I think this is probably the best way to spin it. "They said I great, but that they didn't have enough work in that office to support another associate. I'll be happy to provide references from that office to confirm."

This was my situation, as well. Go west and go rural. Nowhere else is going to make you an offer pre-bar, because nowhere else is desperate enough. Why would anyone hire you in an era of all-time-low bar passage when they can get someone else for the same salary who can start work now? If you won't go west or rural, then I'd continue spamming everywhere that will accept applications knowing they're all unlikely to pan out until you have bar in hand.

[Anonymous User]

3L at T14, median class rank:

- Struck out at 2L OCI, MM campaign led to one SA offer, which I accepted, at a small firm (<100 attorneys) in rural area not located in either my home market or school's market.
- No-offered at end of summer. Feedback was minimal but seemed generally positive, especially in regards to work product. They definitely placed significant weight on ties to the area, of which I had none.
- None of my bids were selected for the few 3L OCI slots.
- In the midst of a MM campaign of NALP firms, almost 500 emails sent. No interviews so far and a few people have responded but immediately ask if I received an offer at the end of my SA. I try to explain this in the most positive way, but so far no one has responded after my answer to that question.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should be going about obtaining an offer for any JD-required employment before I graduate in May? or is it likely that I will remain offer-less until bar results come back next year?

I was also no-offered. I sympathize.

Everyone is going to ask about it. I was able to sell it as an economic/business no offer since my 2L summer firm was looking at a big dropoff in work after a major case they were working on came to a close. I think this is probably the best way to spin it. "They said I great, but that they didn't have enough work in that office to support another associate. I'll be happy to provide references from that office to confirm."

This was my situation, as well. Go west and go rural. Nowhere else is going to make you an offer pre-bar, because nowhere else is desperate enough. Why would anyone hire you in an era of all-time-low bar passage when they can get someone else for the same salary who can start work now? If you won't go west or rural, then I'd continue spamming everywhere that will accept applications knowing they're all unlikely to pan out until you have bar in hand.

I'm the anon you just replied to - I'm not saying that my situation is representative, but I landed a job before I sat for the bar in spite of a no-offer. It's at a small firm, but its ideal for me. Looking back, I'm glad I got no-offered because I hated the place I was last summer and I wouldn't have found this place if I hadn't been pushed into hustling. (Again, not representative, and being no-offered sucks)

Point being, it is possible to get past this, but you're going to have to go really broad with your mass-mailing. Rural areas are also always a good bet.

[Anonymous User]

Hey, does anyone know the new login information for the BYU job bank? The lawschool2016 one doesn't work anymore.

bump. login info doesn't work.

[Anonymous User]

3L here and I'm ready to officially get on this bandwagon. Where do I officially start? Where is there a list of firms (Large, mid, small, gov) that I can apply to and MM?

My school doesn't really have anything...

[Anonymous User]

bump

[zot1]

3L here and I'm ready to officially get on this bandwagon. Where do I officially start? Where is there a list of firms (Large, mid, small, gov) that I can apply to and MM?

My school doesn't really have anything...

Dude. Hustle. Google stuff.

[iliketurtles123]

3L here and I'm ready to officially get on this bandwagon. Where do I officially start? Where is there a list of firms (Large, mid, small, gov) that I can apply to and MM?

My school doesn't really have anything...

Martindale, Nalp, Vault, google list of firms, search TLS to see if anyone has posted a list, Linkedin, etc.

[ilovesf]

I actually found LinkedIn to be pretty helpful when I was looking for a job. There are a ton of postings on there

[rg5146]

3L at T14, median class rank:

- Struck out at 2L OCI, MM campaign led to one SA offer, which I accepted, at a small firm (<100 attorneys) in rural area not located in either my home market or school's market.
- No-offered at end of summer. Feedback was minimal but seemed generally positive, especially in regards to work product. They definitely placed significant weight on ties to the area, of which I had none.
- None of my bids were selected for the few 3L OCI slots.
- In the midst of a MM campaign of NALP firms, almost 500 emails sent. No interviews so far and a few people have responded but immediately ask if I received an offer at the end of my SA. I try to explain this in the most positive way, but so far no one has responded after my answer to that question.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should be going about obtaining an offer for any JD-required employment before I graduate in May? or is it likely that I will remain offer-less until bar results come back next year?

I was also no-offered. I sympathize.

Everyone is going to ask about it. I was able to sell it as an economic/business no offer since my 2L summer firm was looking at a big dropoff in work after a major case they were working on came to a close. I think this is probably the best way to spin it. "They said I great, but that they didn't have enough work in that office to support another associate. I'll be happy to provide references from that office to confirm."

This was my situation, as well. Go west and go rural. Nowhere else is going to make you an offer pre-bar, because nowhere else is desperate enough. Why would anyone hire you in an era of all-time-low bar passage when they can get someone else for the same salary who can start work now? If you won't go west or rural, then I'd continue spamming everywhere that will accept applications knowing they're all unlikely to pan out until you have bar in hand.

Thanks for the tip, I don't really discriminate at all when it comes to location as of right now. Any more specificity in terms of western locations, or groups of rural locations, I should be looking at? Also if I don't receive any pre-bar offers, would I be better off taking the bar in my home market (mid sized market) or in my school market (major US city)?

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the tip, I don't really discriminate at all when it comes to location as of right now. Any more specificity in terms of western locations, or groups of rural locations, I should be looking at? Also if I don't receive any pre-bar offers, would I be better off taking the bar in my home market (mid sized market) or in my school market (major US city)?

I also have this thorny question, as I graduate in December. Oh well.....

[Anonymous User]

Was your graduation date not on your resume?

It was, including my undergrad year.



For those still in the vale:

so I got an interview with V15-V18 firm like a day or two ago. I think I applied back in late June when I first started MMing indiscriminately down the V100 list. I don't even see this entry in my spreadsheet or my mailbox trashbin. So there you go. Some firms just hash through old resumes and call people. I have a feeling they totally got me mixed up with someone and called the wrong person. SO DONT LOSE HOPE!!!

Thanks for sharing your experience. So you are at T6? Whom did you MM to? Partners or recruiting managers of the firm?

EDIT: Never mind. Found in your previous post.

[andythefir]

Thanks for the tip, I don't really discriminate at all when it comes to location as of right now. Any more specificity in terms of western locations, or groups of rural locations, I should be looking at? Also if I don't receive any pre-bar offers, would I be better off taking the bar in my home market (mid sized market) or in my school market (major US city)?

Rural New Mexico has jobs everywhere, although right this second the gas price plunge has people nervous. Still, if you apply to all 13 DA offices, whether or not they say they're hiring, you'll definitely get an offer somewhere. I've seen Cooley grads working doc review who had been fired from a DA job get offers. I'm sure Wyoming, Idaho, etc. are the same. But I'd also bet it's true of wherever it is you're from, go to the armpit portions of the state, there are more jobs there than cool cities.

[Anonymous User]

I used to mm to almost every partner at a firm hoping one of them will bite but DO NOT DO THIS. They either share your email w recruiting or amongst themselves and you will be blacklisted as annoying. I had one partner mention he forwarded my app to recruiting but that it seems like I had already forwarded to everyone else in the firm. Major red flag.
.

What if the first partner did not respond to me for a week. Then, would it be ok to send your resume to another partner at the same firm? What do you think?

Is your post-law WE at mid( small?) sized firm considered positively for 1st year asso job at biglaw as well? Why? Did you get a job or interviews from MM in the similar field of law you did after graduation?

Did you send all of the application package (resume, cover letter, transcript, writing sample)?

Any input would be appreciated!

[Anonymous User]

Edit.

[Anonymous User]

BYU password is now cougs16

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the tip, I don't really discriminate at all when it comes to location as of right now. Any more specificity in terms of western locations, or groups of rural locations, I should be looking at? Also if I don't receive any pre-bar offers, would I be better off taking the bar in my home market (mid sized market) or in my school market (major US city)?

Rural New Mexico has jobs everywhere, although right this second the gas price plunge has people nervous. Still, if you apply to all 13 DA offices, whether or not they say they're hiring, you'll definitely get an offer somewhere. I've seen Cooley grads working doc review who had been fired from a DA job get offers. I'm sure Wyoming, Idaho, etc. are the same. But I'd also bet it's true of wherever it is you're from, go to the armpit portions of the state, there are more jobs there than cool cities.

Interested in this-- how would you suggest applying if there isn't a posting listed somewhere?

[andythefir]

Thanks for the tip, I don't really discriminate at all when it comes to location as of right now. Any more specificity in terms of western locations, or groups of rural locations, I should be looking at? Also if I don't receive any pre-bar offers, would I be better off taking the bar in my home market (mid sized market) or in my school market (major US city)?

Rural New Mexico has jobs everywhere, although right this second the gas price plunge has people nervous. Still, if you apply to all 13 DA offices, whether or not they say they're hiring, you'll definitely get an offer somewhere. I've seen Cooley grads working doc review who had been fired from a DA job get offers. I'm sure Wyoming, Idaho, etc. are the same. But I'd also bet it's true of wherever it is you're from, go to the armpit portions of the state, there are more jobs there than cool cities.

Interested in this-- how would you suggest applying if there isn't a posting listed somewhere?

http://www.nmdas.com. Just blast resumes and cover letters to all 13 DAs directly, although the 8th, 5th, and 13th all advertised in the bar bulletin this week. http://www.nmbar.org/Nmstatebar/Publica ... letin.aspx

I was a little overly optimistic in the original post, I shouldn't have guaranteed an offer somewhere. It's still very likely, but not necessarily 100%. Especially given the bloodbath that was the Jul 16 bar, it wouldn't surprise me if lots of New Mexican jobs are into good grades at good schools.

[Anonymous User]

Any advice on following up with networking contacts who have promised to help, but then you don't hear from them? I have met with a handful of partners who tell me that they will connect me with recruiting/another partner/whomever. But then there is total silence. I send thank yous after meeting, that serves as an initial reminder. Is it too obnoxious to email asking for an update?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any advice on dealing with feeling of hopelessness? I'm at CCN, above median, and got no offered from my 2L SA. I still have one callback in a bit but I know I should be mass sending out apps but... i just feel really down and like there's no chance of getting something that isn't posted. I've been having some really dark thoughts in general and just... fuck. This isn't what they say happens if you go to a school like this, ya know?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any advice on dealing with feeling of hopelessness? I'm at CCN, above median, and got no offered from my 2L SA. I still have one callback in a bit but I know I should be mass sending out apps but... i just feel really down and like there's no chance of getting something that isn't posted. I've been having some really dark thoughts in general and just... fuck. This isn't what they say happens if you go to a school like this, ya know?

These things happen. It isn't a reflection on you as a person or your worth. Go talk to someone and get some help. I was in your boat and know how you feel. The best thing you can do for yourself and your professional future is to get whatever help you may need now.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any advice on dealing with feeling of hopelessness? I'm at CCN, above median, and got no offered from my 2L SA. I still have one callback in a bit but I know I should be mass sending out apps but... i just feel really down and like there's no chance of getting something that isn't posted. I've been having some really dark thoughts in general and just... fuck. This isn't what they say happens if you go to a school like this, ya know?

These things happen. It isn't a reflection on you as a person or your worth. Go talk to someone and get some help. I was in your boat and know how you feel. The best thing you can do for yourself and your professional future is to get whatever help you may need now.

I second this. Just gotta do whatever you can to not alter your self worth based on getting no offered from your 2L SA. At least now you won't have to risk taking a good job for granted and you'll be better able to handle any other adversity that will inevitably pop up throughout a legal career, this is something an SA with an offer likely won't be able to handle as well as someone that was no offered. In all likelihood if you're at CCN and above median, once you have bar results in hand firms would be insane not to hire you and federal clerkships could still be on the table. Also Sotomayer was no offered by her 2L SA, her legal career turned out okay.