The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:11 pm

I got offered $75K per year for 2000 billable

That's 28 bucks an hour per 5 business day week working 11 hours a day (8 billable + 3 other work).

I don't know if I am out of the vale now that I think about it. Am I justified in keep looking for other jobs and abandoning my old one when I get it?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Am I justified in keep looking for other jobs and abandoning my old one when I get it?


TITCR.

I've recently been hired at a firm that I'm not exactly fond of, but I'm looking for something better should it come along.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:51 pm

Genius wrote:Hey everyone, I am officially out of the vale.

It has been a tremendous journey over the last 2 months but it worked out in the end. I've been unemployed since early July and it took me good 2 months to find another job. There were times when I felt like nothing was working out. I kept questioning what went wrong where, and I just realized that's just how life works sometimes. Facing adversity like this is character building.

My first job is at a decent firm that pays little but job is a job. I will obviously continue to hunt for better. My stats are 1 year out, 1 year of lit exp at a small firm, T25-T30 grad, strong softs, median GPA. Current job is midsize in a major market. Im actually really excited to finally get something going and build my practice.

I had a pretty good high yield from massmailing (10/90) or so bites. I think every partner I spoke to said that my cover letter and resume was strong and the whole packet was organized very neatly. Of course my experience is limited but I am happy to provide any feedback or help. Please use me as your resource as well. Thanks everyone!


Congratulations! This gives me hope.

10/90 seems like an unusually high yield for mass mailing, although maybe that's because you had a full year of lit exp already (recent grads have a waaaay lower hit rate, like 2/100). What were your criteria for choosing firms to mail?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:22 am

Hey all, if I am stuck in the vale and don't even know which bar I'm going to take, contingent upon obviously if/where I get a job ever, what the hell do I do about the MPRE? I wanted to register to take it to get it over with in November (deadline to register in a few days) but is that dumb to take it in a state where I don't have a job? I'm confused about this because the online registration asks for state, but also I know people who've taken out of State from where they work. Sorry if this is TLS' dumbest question ever. I just have like 9 zillion things on my mind right now and cant think straight. Anyone? What am I missing here, or am I just screwed and need to wait? :/

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:11 am

MPRE location doesn't matter - everyone takes the same test. You need to sign up for a state so you literally have a location in which to take the exam, but it's not a state-specific test and you just have to make sure you get a score high enough to qualify you where you ultimately want to go.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey all, if I am stuck in the vale and don't even know which bar I'm going to take, contingent upon obviously if/where I get a job ever, what the hell do I do about the MPRE? I wanted to register to take it to get it over with in November (deadline to register in a few days) but is that dumb to take it in a state where I don't have a job? I'm confused about this because the online registration asks for state, but also I know people who've taken out of State from where they work. Sorry if this is TLS' dumbest question ever. I just have like 9 zillion things on my mind right now and cant think straight. Anyone? What am I missing here, or am I just screwed and need to wait? :/



with a few extra dollars (less than $100, if my memory is correct), you can send your MPRE score later to other state you selected in the registration process.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:09 pm

I am a 3L but haven't massmailed yet - I sort of gave up. Realizing that I am in a big trouble, Is massmailing too late to start?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Trevorange » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am a 3L but haven't massmailed yet - I sort of gave up. Realizing that I am in a big trouble, Is massmailing too late to start?


It's never too late to start. Right now is around when the first batch of offers are either accepted or denied, so the recruiting teams are probably starting to look at candidates on the waitlist. Absolutely start MMing as soon as possible.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Genius » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Genius wrote:Hey everyone, I am officially out of the vale.

It has been a tremendous journey over the last 2 months but it worked out in the end. I've been unemployed since early July and it took me good 2 months to find another job. There were times when I felt like nothing was working out. I kept questioning what went wrong where, and I just realized that's just how life works sometimes. Facing adversity like this is character building.

My first job is at a decent firm that pays little but job is a job. I will obviously continue to hunt for better. My stats are 1 year out, 1 year of lit exp at a small firm, T25-T30 grad, strong softs, median GPA. Current job is midsize in a major market. Im actually really excited to finally get something going and build my practice.

I had a pretty good high yield from massmailing (10/90) or so bites. I think every partner I spoke to said that my cover letter and resume was strong and the whole packet was organized very neatly. Of course my experience is limited but I am happy to provide any feedback or help. Please use me as your resource as well. Thanks everyone!


Congratulations! This gives me hope.

10/90 seems like an unusually high yield for mass mailing, although maybe that's because you had a full year of lit exp already (recent grads have a waaaay lower hit rate, like 2/100). What were your criteria for choosing firms to mail?


The key is to target your cover to the partner's needs. One partner I spoke to I asked point blank what was it about my application that he took notice, and he said I used the right buzzwords used in his practice field and genuine interest in wanting to practice in that field.

I used to mm to almost every partner at a firm hoping one of them will bite but DO NOT DO THIS. They either share your email w recruiting or amongst themselves and you will be blacklisted as annoying. I had one partner mention he forwarded my app to recruiting but that it seems like I had already forwarded to everyone else in the firm. Major red flag.

Always apply through proper channels, i.e. recruiter, and then if and only if you find a partner who is an alum at your school or you have some truly relevant experience, should you also apply to partners.

Im only 1 year out but they dont count my 1 yr exp or take it seriously. Im starting off brand new at my new firm and many partners called me thinking i was a recent grad. So i dont think having 1 yr was all that helpful.

My yield started to go up after i stopped being so desperate and started drafting my cover and resume more tailored to a particular employer. I would say 6/10 bites came from the last 30 MMs that I sent out after having fixed my mistakes. It is a learning process and you start to get better at it as things progress, just like anything else in life.

Good luck and let me know if I can provide any other help.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby MichelleMichelle » Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:27 pm

Genius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Genius wrote:Hey everyone, I am officially out of the vale.

It has been a tremendous journey over the last 2 months but it worked out in the end. I've been unemployed since early July and it took me good 2 months to find another job. There were times when I felt like nothing was working out. I kept questioning what went wrong where, and I just realized that's just how life works sometimes. Facing adversity like this is character building.

My first job is at a decent firm that pays little but job is a job. I will obviously continue to hunt for better. My stats are 1 year out, 1 year of lit exp at a small firm, T25-T30 grad, strong softs, median GPA. Current job is midsize in a major market. Im actually really excited to finally get something going and build my practice.

I had a pretty good high yield from massmailing (10/90) or so bites. I think every partner I spoke to said that my cover letter and resume was strong and the whole packet was organized very neatly. Of course my experience is limited but I am happy to provide any feedback or help. Please use me as your resource as well. Thanks everyone!


Congratulations! This gives me hope.

10/90 seems like an unusually high yield for mass mailing, although maybe that's because you had a full year of lit exp already (recent grads have a waaaay lower hit rate, like 2/100). What were your criteria for choosing firms to mail?


The key is to target your cover to the partner's needs. One partner I spoke to I asked point blank what was it about my application that he took notice, and he said I used the right buzzwords used in his practice field and genuine interest in wanting to practice in that field.

I used to mm to almost every partner at a firm hoping one of them will bite but DO NOT DO THIS. They either share your email w recruiting or amongst themselves and you will be blacklisted as annoying. I had one partner mention he forwarded my app to recruiting but that it seems like I had already forwarded to everyone else in the firm. Major red flag.

Always apply through proper channels, i.e. recruiter, and then if and only if you find a partner who is an alum at your school or you have some truly relevant experience, should you also apply to partners.

Im only 1 year out but they dont count my 1 yr exp or take it seriously. Im starting off brand new at my new firm and many partners called me thinking i was a recent grad. So i dont think having 1 yr was all that helpful.

My yield started to go up after i stopped being so desperate and started drafting my cover and resume more tailored to a particular employer. I would say 6/10 bites came from the last 30 MMs that I sent out after having fixed my mistakes. It is a learning process and you start to get better at it as things progress, just like anything else in life.

Good luck and let me know if I can provide any other help.


Interested in this as I am in a similar boat (one year out w/ experience thru a fellowship, but I haven't gotten much from applying to postings and networking. Also did some crazy mass mailing as a 3L that I am sure got me blacklisted at a few firms...). Did you mass mail exclusively in your market? What size firms were you targeting? When reaching out to a partner, how did you phrase your email?

Thanks!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:04 pm

Starting to give up on a fed clerkship. Top 1% at T50 with flagship law review editor position and I can't even get an interview. I'm so angry with myself for not transferring after 1L year because if I had, I wouldn't be in this position now

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Starting to give up on a fed clerkship. Top 1% at T50 with flagship law review editor position and I can't even get an interview. I'm so angry with myself for not transferring after 1L year because if I had, I wouldn't be in this position now

With the greatest sympathy, if you have a job offer other than the clerkship, this is probably better discussed in the clerkship forum.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Genius » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:43 am


Interested in this as I am in a similar boat (one year out w/ experience thru a fellowship, but I haven't gotten much from applying to postings and networking. Also did some crazy mass mailing as a 3L that I am sure got me blacklisted at a few firms...). Did you mass mail exclusively in your market? What size firms were you targeting? When reaching out to a partner, how did you phrase your email?

Thanks!


I mmed exclusively in my market (major city). I went down the v100 list that had offices in my city. I ended up at a firm not in the v100 but it is a start.

I phrase it as an earnest young lawyer interested in the firm and the practice area of the partner. I only reach out to partners who are alums. Otherwise no one gives a shit. Imagine you are receiving that letter as a partner. Does it flow naturally like a well thought out letter from an intelligent alum who seems motivated and normal? Or does it sound like some weirdo desperate loser who lacks character and only wants to use your alum connection? Just be reasonable.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:27 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Starting to give up on a fed clerkship. Top 1% at T50 with flagship law review editor position and I can't even get an interview. I'm so angry with myself for not transferring after 1L year because if I had, I wouldn't be in this position now

With the greatest sympathy, if you have a job offer other than the clerkship, this is probably better discussed in the clerkship forum.

Thank you Nony.
This is in fact the Vale of tears. Some of us are in fact crying, Anon

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:53 am

Can anyone who has mass mailed to partner alums at firms explain exactly what they say/ what the proper etiquette is? Do you just attach a cover letter, resume, and unofficial transcript and write a little paragraph in the email explaining you are applying for a position with the firm?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:13 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Starting to give up on a fed clerkship. Top 1% at T50 with flagship law review editor position and I can't even get an interview. I'm so angry with myself for not transferring after 1L year because if I had, I wouldn't be in this position now

With the greatest sympathy, if you have a job offer other than the clerkship, this is probably better discussed in the clerkship forum.


So 3Ls without any hope of getting a post graduation job they enjoy aren't allowed to post here anymore? Good to know

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:18 pm

I really have no business being here, but the above anon sounds like an (entitled) dick. I have a similar class rank at a much, much better school, and the clerkship process was tough for me too. It's not even remotely comparable to normal job hunting.

My sympathies to everyone here. Some of my good friends are still jobless and I know it can be brutal.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FSK » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Starting to give up on a fed clerkship. Top 1% at T50 with flagship law review editor position and I can't even get an interview. I'm so angry with myself for not transferring after 1L year because if I had, I wouldn't be in this position now

With the greatest sympathy, if you have a job offer other than the clerkship, this is probably better discussed in the clerkship forum.


So 3Ls without any hope of getting a post graduation job they enjoy aren't allowed to post here anymore? Good to know


This is the vale of tears, not the vale of bougie ass problems. Make your own vale

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Starting to give up on a fed clerkship. Top 1% at T50 with flagship law review editor position and I can't even get an interview. I'm so angry with myself for not transferring after 1L year because if I had, I wouldn't be in this position now

With the greatest sympathy, if you have a job offer other than the clerkship, this is probably better discussed in the clerkship forum.


So 3Ls without any hope of getting a post graduation job they enjoy aren't allowed to post here anymore? Good to know

You never were. This thread isn't about not getting a job you enjoy, especially if that job is a clerkship. This is a thread for 3Ls and up who don't have jobs at all (and more particularly, who were trying to get firm jobs that hire before 3L, so people who struck out or got no-offered and are trying to figure out what to do - you'll note that people applying for jobs that normally don't hire until 3L or after graduation, like DA/PD jobs, don't post here until after graduation/the bar). You have a whole clerkship forum full of people happy to commiserate with you. (Also if your tragedy is that you have a job lined up that you're not going to enjoy - I'm presuming biglaw? - that is entirely on you and whining about it in this thread is absolutely inappropriate.)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:34 pm

Current 3L that is still part of the Vale. Possibly stupid question, but I can't find a post that answers my question.

When 3Ls mass-mail, do they only reach out to big law firms? Or should we be mass-mailing to mid-size and/or small firms? I was under the impression that it was too early to contact smaller firms. Am I wrong? Thanks for any feedback.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Current 3L that is still part of the Vale. Possibly stupid question, but I can't find a post that answers my question.

When 3Ls mass-mail, do they only reach out to big law firms? Or should we be mass-mailing to mid-size and/or small firms? I was under the impression that it was too early to contact smaller firms. Am I wrong? Thanks for any feedback.


Small and mid size firms hire based on need, so they are less predictable. It really boils down to whether you sent in your mailing within a couple days/weeks of their need. A good way to know is to network, so once there is a need, they can reach out to you asap.

Also, from what I hear, most smaller firms won't hire you until you pass the bar. I've cut back on mass mailing quite a bit because I was seeing no results. Plan on amping it up after my bar results (hopefully I pass). I have no idea what I'll do if I fail though...

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:51 pm

.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:28 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Starting to give up on a fed clerkship. Top 1% at T50 with flagship law review editor position and I can't even get an interview. I'm so angry with myself for not transferring after 1L year because if I had, I wouldn't be in this position now

With the greatest sympathy, if you have a job offer other than the clerkship, this is probably better discussed in the clerkship forum.


So 3Ls without any hope of getting a post graduation job they enjoy aren't allowed to post here anymore? Good to know

You never were. This thread isn't about not getting a job you enjoy, especially if that job is a clerkship. This is a thread for 3Ls and up who don't have jobs at all (and more particularly, who were trying to get firm jobs that hire before 3L, so people who struck out or got no-offered and are trying to figure out what to do - you'll note that people applying for jobs that normally don't hire until 3L or after graduation, like DA/PD jobs, don't post here until after graduation/the bar). You have a whole clerkship forum full of people happy to commiserate with you. (Also if your tragedy is that you have a job lined up that you're not going to enjoy - I'm presuming biglaw? - that is entirely on you and whining about it in this thread is absolutely inappropriate.)


I was actually no offered at my summer firm and haven't been able to get a single interview despite sending 150+ applications. So yeah, I think I belong here.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:42 pm

I am sorry to hear that and wish you the best of luck with your job search. Nothing you said up until this point suggested that was the case, and I said from the start "if you have a job offer other than the clerkship," which you didn't deny.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:13 pm

I got out of the vale 2 weeks ago when I accepted an offer. In my first week, I got 3 interview calls, 2 from biglaw and 1 midsize local. This brings my yield to about 13 bites from about 100 MMs.




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