The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:27 pm

At a t14. Was in secondary market. Got no offered with no warning. Grades are now above median and i got a decent amount of 3LOCI interviews but damn if it isn't the most depressing thing. Just talking to the other summers or my classmates back at school about what happened is quite the bummer. Trying hard not to sound bitter during interviews but when the first or second question is if you got an offer and then why not... it's tough.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At a t14. Was in secondary market. Got no offered with no warning. Grades are now above median and i got a decent amount of 3LOCI interviews but damn if it isn't the most depressing thing. Just talking to the other summers or my classmates back at school about what happened is quite the bummer. Trying hard not to sound bitter during interviews but when the first or second question is if you got an offer and then why not... it's tough.


No offered last week at a large (500+) close to market paying firm. Very depressing. As I look for jobs I can't even believe this has happened yet. I also can't believe I'm competing for jobs paying less than half of what I thought I would be making. This really sucks. I've never felt so bad for being in the top 15% at a T1 school.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:59 pm

No offered last week as well. Really sucks since changes entire outlook for 3L. Sucks even more since managing partner loves me and wants to hire me, but "doesn't know if they will churn up Enough business." What sucks even more is he refuses to make calls and in good word since he says he doesn't want me to look for a job until he's 100% certain they can't make me an offer in November.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:15 pm

PSA: BuckleySandler DC is hiring 3Ls for Fall 2017 start date. No specific job opening on website, but just apply.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Akriant » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:45 pm

Soooo, quick story here:
I am an immigrant, climbing my way all the way from a community college, pursuing my dream of becoming a lawyer. (Trust me,when it comes to the interviews - having an accent is literally the worst thing ever)

Passed the UBE in MO with flying colors in 2015 on my first try. Because I was sure that I failed, I didn't apply for jobs right way, but waited up until September was knocking on my door (yeah, that was stupid). As a result - By the end of 2015 I had just 3 interviews, and those where phone interviews at that, at which I am pretty terrible. Transferred my UBE scores to KS, which took almost 6 months. Feeling the dread of being unemployed and loosing marketability was awful. Managed to secure a position in Legal Services, so I am officially employed, albeit the pay is very much on the low end. Still, I am extremely grateful to have a job, and I like the people I am working with. Now, the only thing I am wondering is - what are my chances of moving to a private sector in a few years (3-5 years).


So there you go folks, don't loose your faith.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:21 pm

Hey all--got no offered at a V100 firm last week. It was an unbelievable and totally unexpected blow to my psyche.

Thankfully I did 3L OCI and I want to offer a glimmer of hope. I was able to snag some callbacks. I practiced hard to brush up on my interview skills and went in as confidently as possible, visiting with the recruiters and highlighting my positive work experience at my firm. One of the firms did ask me about my no-offer in the screener and that firm did not give me a callback. But I walked away feeling like I had really mastered and delivered my talking points on the no-offer situation--that's all you can ask of yourself in this situation. Practice in the mirror. Practice in the shower.

Good luck to all of you! I know we'll all find jobs through perseverance and determination.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:Hey all--got no offered at a V100 firm last week. It was an unbelievable and totally unexpected blow to my psyche.

Thankfully I did 3L OCI and I want to offer a glimmer of hope. I was able to snag some callbacks. I practiced hard to brush up on my interview skills and went in as confidently as possible, visiting with the recruiters and highlighting my positive work experience at my firm. One of the firms did ask me about my no-offer in the screener and that firm did not give me a callback. But I walked away feeling like I had really mastered and delivered my talking points on the no-offer situation--that's all you can ask of yourself in this situation. Practice in the mirror. Practice in the shower.

Good luck to all of you! I know we'll all find jobs through perseverance and determination.


Hey above anon - congrats! Very encouraging story. Can you share what firms came to your school's 3L OCI or will be hiring 3Ls this cycle? In similar shoes as you.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby SFSpartan » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:No offered last week as well. Really sucks since changes entire outlook for 3L. Sucks even more since managing partner loves me and wants to hire me, but "doesn't know if they will churn up Enough business." What sucks even more is he refuses to make calls and in good word since he says he doesn't want me to look for a job until he's 100% certain they can't make me an offer in November.


That sucks, and I'm really sorry this happened to you. A similar thing happened to me. My advice would be to massmail as much as possible in the hope that you get an interview somewhere, and that this interview causes your current firm to give you an offer (or the new firm if you just want to get out of there). I did this, and was extremely open about how many interviews I had and when I had them. After 2-3 interviews, the firm ended up offering me because they were afraid of losing me.

That said, you know your firm best, so assess whether you think this strategy might work for you. I can definitely see it turning off some people and firms.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:17 pm

Got a call from a biglaw firm I interviewed with like 6 weeks ago. I thought it would be a CB invite. It was more inquiry about my resume. I hoped it would be a CB call, but at least it's something rather than nothing.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:44 pm

2015 grad - Had an interview about three weeks ago. Sent thank you right after interview. No response. Silence since. I want to send a follow up, but think it might be better not to?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:12 pm

Mass mail response asking if i got an offer from 2l firm. Answer is no. Ding next work day.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Sweetdeal068 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:12 pm

2015 graduate finally out of the vale! I was offered my dream job as an attorney in state government, it is everything I prayed for. The call came out of the blue, after over a year of unemployment. Furthermore, I interviewed there a few months back, got rejected, but they were impressed and as soon as a position opened up, it was mine. I was seriously planning my exit strategy from law a few pages back haha. So incredibly grateful for this thread, I read this from top to bottom. Please know that it only takes one, and you will find something! Even with a massive employment gap such as my own, employers really do understand and it will all work out! Hope this encourages more graduates!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby EvelynS » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:10 pm

Sweetdeal068 wrote:2015 graduate finally out of the vale! I was offered my dream job as an attorney in state government, it is everything I prayed for. The call came out of the blue, after over a year of unemployment. Furthermore, I interviewed there a few months back, got rejected, but they were impressed and as soon as a position opened up, it was mine. I was seriously planning my exit strategy from law a few pages back haha. So incredibly grateful for this thread, I read this from top to bottom. Please know that it only takes one, and you will find something! Even with a massive employment gap such as my own, employers really do understand and it will all work out! Hope this encourages more graduates!


Do you mind sharing how you approached the "what you have been doing this year" type of question? I am a 2015 grad as well, still unemployed. I have an interview coming up this week, so I am really anxious about how to answer this question without sounding too desperate or like a loser. You can PM me if you don't want to share it on this forum. Thanks in advance!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Sweetdeal068 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:07 pm

Hi EvelynS, of course! Happy to share! Mmhm, I got that question as I went through the state government interview process. So what I did was just to be honest. I said that I was spending the time with my family and friends, especially after 7 years of straight schooling (I went to law school straight from college, like a lot of people here!). And also, I mentioned intellectual hobbies such as reading, creative writing, like keeping your mind sharp during the wait. I also mentioned that job hunting was very time consuming too! If they ask about volunteer work, I was honest and explained that I hadn't found anything! I really did find that employers understood how tough it is to find a job, and as long as you're humble and straightforward, it's okay. Hope that helps! Good luck on your interview yay!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:17 pm

Evelyn and Sweetdeal do you guys mind sharing your stats? Are yall T14 grads or tier 1? major market? I am curious to know how long I can remain unemployed before getting something

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Sweetdeal068 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Evelyn and Sweetdeal do you guys mind sharing your stats? Are yall T14 grads or tier 1? major market? I am curious to know how long I can remain unemployed before getting something


I was at at TT school, secondary market in the mid-Atlantic region. No journal or moot court. Slightly below median, but a couple of solid internships in both state agency and private practice. Perhaps I seemed well rounded? And I interviewed well, even though I'm somewhat shy!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bulaw2017student » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:PSA: BuckleySandler DC is hiring 3Ls for Fall 2017 start date. No specific job opening on website, but just apply.


heard of any CB yet for Buckley Sandler?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Sweetdeal068 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:2015 grad - Had an interview about three weeks ago. Sent thank you right after interview. No response. Silence since. I want to send a follow up, but think it might be better not to?


No response to a thank you note isn't out of the ordinary so that's okay! It's good that you did of course. I'd probably wait another week or so, then follow up!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:At a t14. Was in secondary market. Got no offered with no warning. Grades are now above median and I got a decent amount of 3LOCI interviews but damn if it isn't the most depressing thing. Just talking to the other summers or my classmates back at school about what happened is quite the bummer. Trying hard not to sound bitter during interviews but when the first or second question is if you got an offer and then why not... it's tough.


The exact same thing happened to me. I left on very good terms even though I wanted to shout profanities when I got the no offer call. My law school's career services asked me to call my supervisor to explain that being no offered has a terrible signaling effect to other employers and to ask if they would offer me a position on the condition I turned it down. The firm agreed and confirmed I had an offer to return. They gave me an offer letter to come back (for the 2 weeks immediately before the bar exam) lol to ensure I wouldn't show up and demand 2 weeks of salary. If you gave it your best, I'm sure your firm might do something similar. They aren't trying to ruin a hard working student's career.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:51 am

bulaw2017student wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:PSA: BuckleySandler DC is hiring 3Ls for Fall 2017 start date. No specific job opening on website, but just apply.


heard of any CB yet for Buckley Sandler?


CBs are out for buckleysandler (it's one word) but still trickling.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:14 pm

wtf employers call you to say you got no offer? wtf why not snail mail or email? that sounds brutal.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:wtf employers call you to say you got no offer? wtf why not snail mail or email? that sounds brutal.


Can confirm that Littler does this.

Source: A classmate who was shitting himself last summer when Littler decided to delay their offer calls by a few hours, after telling all their SAs they would make the offer calls by X:00. Luckily for him, he did get offered.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:03 pm

I think after working for a firm for a summer the employer should have to suffer through making the call personally rather than just sending a letter/email. I'd be pissed if I got a form letter/email no-offer (it's going to suck for me either way so at least make someone else have to suffer a little).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Cant_stump_trump2020 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:50 pm

Hello everyone. I'm new to this thread. Long time lurker on the site, only made an account months ago to use the search function.

Rising 3L at UT Austin with median grades. Got no offered from my firm this summer due to lack of business. Nothing but positive reviews from supervisors on work product and personality fit. That honestly hurts more than if they didn't like me or my work. At least then I'd know my future had been in my own hands.

I feel like I've been ran over by a truck. As I'm sure most in this thread can relate. I cried, I drank, I yelled, cried some more ... It's been a tough few days.

I immediately got in touch with the Clerkship people at school and am gonna see if there's anyway I can scoop something, anything up clerkship wise. Even if it's state court somewhere else other than Texas.

I have a question about mass mailing. I've done this shit twice by now, and I know "big law" has sailed for me. So, how does one "mass mail" to smaller and mid sized firms? Especially when there's no recruiter or even a careers page on their website?

Also, do y'all just send resumes? Resumes plus transcripts? Cover letters? Or just a brief introduction in the body of an email with an attached resume?

Feel like I'm living in a bad hangover dream. My family and friends are really worried about me. I haven't been taking this very well at all.

Thanks for any responses.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:36 pm

Cant_stump_trump2020 wrote:Hello everyone. I'm new to this thread. Long time lurker on the site, only made an account months ago to use the search function.

Rising 3L at UT Austin with median grades. Got no offered from my firm this summer due to lack of business. Nothing but positive reviews from supervisors on work product and personality fit. That honestly hurts more than if they didn't like me or my work. At least then I'd know my future had been in my own hands.

I feel like I've been ran over by a truck. As I'm sure most in this thread can relate. I cried, I drank, I yelled, cried some more ... It's been a tough few days.

I immediately got in touch with the Clerkship people at school and am gonna see if there's anyway I can scoop something, anything up clerkship wise. Even if it's state court somewhere else other than Texas.

I have a question about mass mailing. I've done this shit twice by now, and I know "big law" has sailed for me. So, how does one "mass mail" to smaller and mid sized firms? Especially when there's no recruiter or even a careers page on their website?

Also, do y'all just send resumes? Resumes plus transcripts? Cover letters? Or just a brief introduction in the body of an email with an attached resume?

Feel like I'm living in a bad hangover dream. My family and friends are really worried about me. I haven't been taking this very well at all.

Thanks for any responses.



Sorry to hear it. Here's some info I hope helps:

On clerkships: In addition to talking to Allbright/Ratliff, get on OSCAR right now and sign up for the email updates. I no longer subscribe but when I did there was, about once every couple months, a judge who was looking for someone for the very next term (i.e. to start the next August). Watch for those. Most people who want to clerk for 2017-18 will already have something in the bag or won't have the grades for it. Your grades might be a little stretch, but you can try to improve on them this semester while everyone else is 3LOLing.

In addition, the Tx SG has restarted their post-grad fellowship program for 2016-17, as well as a couple other divisions at the OAG. The indications I've gotten is that they intend to do that every year going forward. I don't know when they plan to take applications for 2017-18, but it posted on WorkInTexas for 2016-17 in August of 2016 (even though it's Sept. 1 start date). Just keep an eye out for it. I assume they'll post it earlier this year. The posting was weird this year and you had to be searching for paralegal or legal assistant positions, so if you have a WorkInTexas account (and you should) be sure to expand your search options.

As to your questions on mass mailing: BigLaw: Don't rule it out entirely. Follow gobiglaw.com and of course Symplicity. Also talk to CSO so that they know you're still looking and will keep you in mind when employers call.

Small firms: I focused on small and mid-size firms, so I know exactly what you mean about not having an obvious point of contact. Things you can do. They're time consuming, but anecdotally I found I got better results when I targeted the right people (pick one and go with it, though put your back up in your spreadsheet as well so you can do your second mass mail to that person if you get no response at all):

(1) Use linkedin to search the firm and see if they have a recruiter, practice administrator, office manager, then figure out that person's email (that's usually easy because attorney's email addresses are on website and show you the pattern). Then google what you think is that person's email and their name to verify that you got it right.

(2) Look through the partners' bios to see if any of them are listed as hiring partner, managing partner, member of the hiring committee, etc., and send to that person

(3) Use the bios to find a partner who went to UT or who practices the particular area of law your resume is strongest for. Or even who shares your hobbies.

As for what to send, I sent Cover Letter, Resume, and Transcripts. I had three different cover letters, one that addressed one area of law specifically, one that addressed one type of practice specifically, and one that could be read to show interest in whatever the reader wanted me to be interested in. When I put my spreadsheet together, I had a column to indicate which cover letter I wanted to send based on the scope of that firm's practice, so that when I mail-merged my cover letters I did three merges, one filtering for cover letter 1, one for cover letter 2, and one for cover letter 3. I also had a very brief description in the email body stating who I was and what was attached.

BTW, If you're looking to stay in Texas, here's a good firm list to start with: Texas 100 (you may have to create an ALM login, but the first 5 stories/month are free, so unless you've been reading Texas Lawyer pretty hard already this week, you can access this.
Last edited by BVest on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.



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