The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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BVest
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:55 pm

What's a good site for searching ALL firms.


Martindale

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Easy-E
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Easy-E » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:33 am

BVest wrote:
What's a good site for searching ALL firms.


Martindale


This is one of the worst websites I've ever used, but thank you all the same

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:49 am

And yet it's what there is.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Rlabo » Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:04 pm

Here's some sources I found useful:

https://www.ilrg.com/nlj250
(largest 350 firms) - EDIT: NLJ just updated its list, added 150 more firms, not sure how to access without credentials though-maybe school access
http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=12 ... he-NLJ-500

http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=12 ... s-Hot-List
(for this, I would look at past lists as well - if a firm made multiple appearances, chances are they're pretty solid)

http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=12 ... s-Hot-List
(same advice as above)

https://www.law360.com/rankings/most-fe ... iffs-firms
(same advice as above)

http://www.gobiglaw.com/
(good amalgamation of biglaw job postings)

http://www.martindale.com/
(a bit clunky but still useful)

Good luck!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Easy-E » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:20 pm

When being offered an interview at a small firm, is there an appropriate way to ask about compensation over the phone (assuming it wasn't in the posting)? I don't feel like wasting my time if I'm just going to turn the job down based on pay.

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BVest
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:37 pm

Easy-E wrote:When being offered an interview at a small firm, is there an appropriate way to ask about compensation over the phone (assuming it wasn't in the posting)? I don't feel like wasting my time if I'm just going to turn the job down based on pay.


I don't know of a way, but I also haven't felt like I've had the ability to turn down based on pay.

I've been fairly selective about the smaller firms I've applied to, so I anticipate there's a floor to what they'd offer. Once I get an offer maybe I'll find out I was wrong. We'll see.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Easy-E » Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:09 pm

BVest wrote:
Easy-E wrote:When being offered an interview at a small firm, is there an appropriate way to ask about compensation over the phone (assuming it wasn't in the posting)? I don't feel like wasting my time if I'm just going to turn the job down based on pay.


I don't know of a way, but I also haven't felt like I've had the ability to turn down based on pay.

I've been fairly selective about the smaller firms I've applied to, so I anticipate there's a floor to what they'd offer. Once I get an offer maybe I'll find out I was wrong. We'll see.


As far as I can tell, I'm talking about a 2 attorney shop here, so emphasis on "small". I'm interested in working at a small firm, but I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if this place is offered to pay a new associate $35k or less. I wish I had just asked during the initial call. I feel like if I call and ask now there are three outcomes. (1) They don't tell me, and I look shitty or (2) they tell me, it sucks, I tell them I don't want to waste their time and cancel the interview or (3) they tell me, it's acceptable, but I still look kinda shitty.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hipcatdaddio » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:33 am

Easy-E wrote:
BVest wrote:
Easy-E wrote:When being offered an interview at a small firm, is there an appropriate way to ask about compensation over the phone (assuming it wasn't in the posting)? I don't feel like wasting my time if I'm just going to turn the job down based on pay.


I don't know of a way, but I also haven't felt like I've had the ability to turn down based on pay.

I've been fairly selective about the smaller firms I've applied to, so I anticipate there's a floor to what they'd offer. Once I get an offer maybe I'll find out I was wrong. We'll see.


As far as I can tell, I'm talking about a 2 attorney shop here, so emphasis on "small". I'm interested in working at a small firm, but I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if this place is offered to pay a new associate $35k or less. I wish I had just asked during the initial call. I feel like if I call and ask now there are three outcomes. (1) They don't tell me, and I look shitty or (2) they tell me, it sucks, I tell them I don't want to waste their time and cancel the interview or (3) they tell me, it's acceptable, but I still look kinda shitty.


Unless you're having to shell out for travel expenses to go to this interview, getting any interview experience is generally time well spent. So you could always look at it in that light.

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Easy-E
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Easy-E » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:49 am

hipcatdaddio wrote:
Easy-E wrote:
BVest wrote:
Easy-E wrote:When being offered an interview at a small firm, is there an appropriate way to ask about compensation over the phone (assuming it wasn't in the posting)? I don't feel like wasting my time if I'm just going to turn the job down based on pay.


I don't know of a way, but I also haven't felt like I've had the ability to turn down based on pay.

I've been fairly selective about the smaller firms I've applied to, so I anticipate there's a floor to what they'd offer. Once I get an offer maybe I'll find out I was wrong. We'll see.


As far as I can tell, I'm talking about a 2 attorney shop here, so emphasis on "small". I'm interested in working at a small firm, but I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if this place is offered to pay a new associate $35k or less. I wish I had just asked during the initial call. I feel like if I call and ask now there are three outcomes. (1) They don't tell me, and I look shitty or (2) they tell me, it sucks, I tell them I don't want to waste their time and cancel the interview or (3) they tell me, it's acceptable, but I still look kinda shitty.


Unless you're having to shell out for travel expenses to go to this interview, getting any interview experience is generally time well spent. So you could always look at it in that light.


That was my thought but small firm interviews aren't much experience wise IME. It's really just some small talk about where I live and questions about my resume. Nothing I need practice with, certainly not at the expense of bar prep time. But we'll find out soon.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:01 pm

So, got a call about setting up an interview for a clerkship (state). It's with a presiding criminal judge. I'm also interviewing with a smallish firm this Monday who I would very excited to get an offer from. I would prefer civil, but I know a clerkship is a clerkship, and I know it doesn't lock you into that career or anything. That said, the commute is at the top of my range and obviously, it's clerkship pay.

It seems like the consensus on these boards is "never turn down a clerkship" or else a pox upon your house, and that you definitely shouldn't be telling judges "sounds good but I wanna hear from this firm first". It seems like this would apply doubly since it's so late to be hiring a 2016-17 clerk.

So if I would even want to consider other jobs, should I not take the clerkship interview? I know a clerkship is great, but like I said, it's a pretty far commute and money isn't great (which isn't why you take a clerkship I suppose). Does the fact its a presiding judge play into this?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tigerbait2015
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Tigerbait2015 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:02 pm

Out of the Vale!! After failing the bar back in July, moving back home w the parents, taking two bars in Feb and passing both I finally got an offer with the DA. For those of you still looking--the last 8 months have been some of the toughest times I've ever had and I know what it's like for every day to be a struggle sending out apps, meeting with attorneys, and just having to hustle. It's brutal, but if you stick with it something will come along. Don't give up hope and keep pushing on.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Kratos » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:So, got a call about setting up an interview for a clerkship (state). It's with a presiding criminal judge. I'm also interviewing with a smallish firm this Monday who I would very excited to get an offer from. I would prefer civil, but I know a clerkship is a clerkship, and I know it doesn't lock you into that career or anything. That said, the commute is at the top of my range and obviously, it's clerkship pay.

It seems like the consensus on these boards is "never turn down a clerkship" or else a pox upon your house, and that you definitely shouldn't be telling judges "sounds good but I wanna hear from this firm first". It seems like this would apply doubly since it's so late to be hiring a 2016-17 clerk.

So if I would even want to consider other jobs, should I not take the clerkship interview? I know a clerkship is great, but like I said, it's a pretty far commute and money isn't great (which isn't why you take a clerkship I suppose). Does the fact its a presiding judge play into this?

i'd take the clerkship interview

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:15 pm

Tigerbait2015 wrote:Out of the Vale!! After failing the bar back in July, moving back home w the parents, taking two bars in Feb and passing both I finally got an offer with the DA. For those of you still looking--the last 8 months have been some of the toughest times I've ever had and I know what it's like for every day to be a struggle sending out apps, meeting with attorneys, and just having to hustle. It's brutal, but if you stick with it something will come along. Don't give up hope and keep pushing on.


Congrats!!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Easy-E » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:37 am

I'm (almost) out of the vale! Had an interview last night with a small but highly successful firm, had a really great interview. Really seemed like a great environment, interesting work and a pretty manageable commute. Attorney himself was a pleasure to speak with, very down to earth. Just waiting on a written offer w/r/t compensation, but based on our conversation I'm not worried about the number.

We're all gonna make it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:56 pm

How do people find all those places to apply to? I mean other than craigslist and mass mailing.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Easy-E » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:14 am

I'm waiting on an offer from an attorney (mentioned above), I have the job contingent upon my acceptance of the offer (so now I'm just crazy checking my e-mail). Should I still send an e-mail or something thanking him for the interview and following up with some other information we discussed like start date? Or if the job is mine, is this kinda silly?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sewei08 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:40 pm

Tigerbait2015 wrote:Out of the Vale!! After failing the bar back in July, moving back home w the parents, taking two bars in Feb and passing both I finally got an offer with the DA. For those of you still looking--the last 8 months have been some of the toughest times I've ever had and I know what it's like for every day to be a struggle sending out apps, meeting with attorneys, and just having to hustle. It's brutal, but if you stick with it something will come along. Don't give up hope and keep pushing on.


Congrats. I'm in a similar situation but I'm still in the vale. I've interviewed at a few DA offices but no luck. How was your interview? Was there a tough hypo?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:35 pm

I'm still in the vale, really hoping to get something. I'm taking my second bar (the UBE) after passing my first post-graduation in February. I have the Patent Bar too but my undergrad major was not one of the highly desirable ones like engineering or computer science. I'm so saddled in debt right now so I often get down b/cause its hard to see an end in sight (I've felt like the poster a few pages ago who contemplated suicide).

Trying to stay optimistic so thanks for this thread. I'm working right now at a low paying, entry level research job to make ends meet. I really hope that this isn't stupid, but I was freaking out with the amount that my loans will accrue each month without me making the minimum payment. I will resume applying like crazy to law firms when I'm done with this bar. I've also made a form email and a list that I will cater for informational interviews will all the alums from my LS in the state where I'm taking my second bar.

Is there anything else that I can be doing right now? Does anyone have any advice? I'm so ready to bust my ass for a biglaw salary. No ties. Good researcher. Able to push myself really hard.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hipcatdaddio » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:35 pm

Anybody know the new BYU password? I believe they reset it again.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm still in the vale, really hoping to get something. I'm taking my second bar (the UBE) after passing my first post-graduation in February. I have the Patent Bar too but my undergrad major was not one of the highly desirable ones like engineering or computer science. I'm so saddled in debt right now so I often get down b/cause its hard to see an end in sight (I've felt like the poster a few pages ago who contemplated suicide).

Trying to stay optimistic so thanks for this thread. I'm working right now at a low paying, entry level research job to make ends meet. I really hope that this isn't stupid, but I was freaking out with the amount that my loans will accrue each month without me making the minimum payment. I will resume applying like crazy to law firms when I'm done with this bar. I've also made a form email and a list that I will cater for informational interviews will all the alums from my LS in the state where I'm taking my second bar.

Is there anything else that I can be doing right now? Does anyone have any advice? I'm so ready to bust my ass for a biglaw salary. No ties. Good researcher. Able to push myself really hard.


You should start payments with a repayment plan. It'll probably amount to zero dollars or something not to bad if you're not making much money.

Apply and network like crazy. Not much else to do at this point.

Hang in there. It might take time but you will get out.

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Easy-E
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Easy-E » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:25 pm

Officially out! Landed a job at successful small firm, really excited about it. Money is solid (minimal debt here/suburbs), seems like a fun place to work, boss/partner is a really cool guy who seems very committed to mentoring, lots of potential for the future and an easy commute.

Everyone's gonna make it guys.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pleasye » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:38 pm

Easy-E wrote:Officially out! Landed a job at successful small firm, really excited about it. Money is solid (minimal debt here/suburbs), seems like a fun place to work, boss/partner is a really cool guy who seems very committed to mentoring, lots of potential for the future and an easy commute.

Everyone's gonna make it guys.

Congrats!!!!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:officially out of the vale, big law major market, keep hustling guys, there's hope!!


Congrats! 3L or grad?


How did you get the offer, if I may ask?


Thanks a lot, recent grad, spent all of 3L networking, all came together in the end, interviewed at a firm where multiple connection I had made knew people.

TooManyLoans
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TooManyLoans » Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:49 pm

Only accepting 175 applications for "many vacancies." Thought I'd share here.
https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/445510900/

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Tigerbait2015 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:50 pm

sewei08 wrote:
Tigerbait2015 wrote:Out of the Vale!! After failing the bar back in July, moving back home w the parents, taking two bars in Feb and passing both I finally got an offer with the DA. For those of you still looking--the last 8 months have been some of the toughest times I've ever had and I know what it's like for every day to be a struggle sending out apps, meeting with attorneys, and just having to hustle. It's brutal, but if you stick with it something will come along. Don't give up hope and keep pushing on.


Congrats. I'm in a similar situation but I'm still in the vale. I've interviewed at a few DA offices but no luck. How was your interview? Was there a tough hypo?


First round was very straight forward with one ADA who asked typical questions about my resume, why this office etc. Second round was a panel w/ 25-30 people, asked about literally everything including info from my background check (whatever you think they can't get, they can-- you need to be prepared to answer anything) one hypo about what you would do in a domestic violence situation where it's a he said/she said type scenario and you are working intake and have to decide if you will authorize an assault charge. Then, they asked me to assume I authorized an assault charge and asked what I would do if the witness recanted later on. At the end they asked to give a closing argument on why the office should hire me. On the plus side, I did not get any hypos about anything really substantive like Brady or Giglio, more just what would prudence dictate that you do in this scenario.

For what its worth, I think what put me over the bar was being confident in the answers I gave both about my personal qualifications and in response to the hypos and sticking to my guns when I was challenged. They did give me a lot of pushback both on my hypo responses and on my resume qualifications but if you're confident and know they're just doing it to try and rattle you then you should get through ok. Best of luck PM me if I can be of any further help.




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