The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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BVest
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:48 pm

Easy-E wrote:Trying to grab a last minute clerkship. Postings ask for cover letter, resume and transcript. My transcript is not solid, but I have some solid experience, and I think I look much better when I can include a writing sample. Bad idea to go beyond what the posting calls for?


IMO, including a writing sample for a clerkship, even when not solicited, is fine.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:12 pm

Hi all! I'm that person from a few pages ago asking about the firm who told me I was a top candidate and then it was radio silence. So, they ended up rejecting me, but then in one of those situations you always think should happen, but never does, they called me a few days later saying they needed someone and wanted to send me to the final round. I just got a job offer from this week, and after graduating in May 2015, I'm finally out of the Vale!

I have no real advice for anyone else, except to just keep going and know the good feelings are coming!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi all! I'm that person from a few pages ago asking about the firm who told me I was a top candidate and then it was radio silence. So, they ended up rejecting me, but then in one of those situations you always think should happen, but never does, they called me a few days later saying they needed someone and wanted to send me to the final round. I just got a job offer from this week, and after graduating in May 2015, I'm finally out of the Vale!

I have no real advice for anyone else, except to just keep going and know the good feelings are coming!

CONGRATS!!!! THIS IS AMAZING!! Good luck!!

Thanks for sharing, gave me a little more hope!

zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi all! I'm that person from a few pages ago asking about the firm who told me I was a top candidate and then it was radio silence. So, they ended up rejecting me, but then in one of those situations you always think should happen, but never does, they called me a few days later saying they needed someone and wanted to send me to the final round. I just got a job offer from this week, and after graduating in May 2015, I'm finally out of the Vale!

I have no real advice for anyone else, except to just keep going and know the good feelings are coming!

CONGRATS!!!! THIS IS AMAZING!! Good luck!!

Thanks for sharing, gave me a little more hope!


Well, that was rough, but I'm happy it worked out!!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby whitecollar23 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:24 am

So people I've been networking with keep telling me to look for compliance jobs or legal jobs in fortune 500 companies or jobs at big accounting companies. Problem is that I have on clue how to look for these jobs. Anyone have an idea on where to even start?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:09 pm

whitecollar23 wrote:So people I've been networking with keep telling me to look for compliance jobs or legal jobs in fortune 500 companies or jobs at big accounting companies. Problem is that I have on clue how to look for these jobs. Anyone have an idea on where to even start?


They are usually good with updating their postings on their official websites. Deloitte, KPMG, etc. One company in particular which seems to be more friendly towards JD'S is E&Y. BTW there is a company in Houston called Alliant Group - check them out.

Remember to tailor your resume to someone who will work in that field - not someone who wants to be a lawyer, and I stress that.

I remember I interviewed at Merrill Lynch once and one of the panel interviewers was a licensed attorney herself - and she asked me "how come I don't want to practice law, you have a spectacular resume?" Be prepared for that question, don't mention anything about the job market just state your lack of interest in practicing law and your growing desire to work in a large company in financial services / compliance.

So keep up with their website listings.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby whitecollar23 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
whitecollar23 wrote:So people I've been networking with keep telling me to look for compliance jobs or legal jobs in fortune 500 companies or jobs at big accounting companies. Problem is that I have on clue how to look for these jobs. Anyone have an idea on where to even start?


They are usually good with updating their postings on their official websites. Deloitte, KPMG, etc. One company in particular which seems to be more friendly towards JD'S is E&Y. BTW there is a company in Houston called Alliant Group - check them out.

Remember to tailor your resume to someone who will work in that field - not someone who wants to be a lawyer, and I stress that.

I remember I interviewed at Merrill Lynch once and one of the panel interviewers was a licensed attorney herself - and she asked me "how come I don't want to practice law, you have a spectacular resume?" Be prepared for that question, don't mention anything about the job market just state your lack of interest in practicing law and your growing desire to work in a large company in financial services / compliance.

So keep up with their website listings.


Any suggestions on how to go about focusing my application not on law? I only really have one experience that wasn't law and it's very thin.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby yay » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:25 am

Is there such thing as a plaintiff side firm that is not scummy?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lincoln » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:29 pm

yay wrote:Is there such thing as a plaintiff side firm that is not scummy?


Yes

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Rlabo » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:36 pm

Lincoln wrote:
yay wrote:Is there such thing as a plaintiff side firm that is not scummy?


Yes


Yes, now defense firms....

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:01 pm

Has anyone started mass mailing yet? I am a rising 3L and just about to get started. Too early?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone started mass mailing yet? I am a rising 3L and just about to get started. Too early?



Slightly related question: if we struck out at OCI last summer, but mass-mailed tons of places, what is the protocol for mass-mailing now? I feel like I have already mass mailed the majority of, if not all of, the firms in the markets I want to work in. Do I mass mail again? Do I completely ignore them and look for others? Or just start afresh and pick new markets? I'm totally lost with how to proceed with this.. :cry: Any advice?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kellyfrost » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone started mass mailing yet? I am a rising 3L and just about to get started. Too early?



Slightly related question: if we struck out at OCI last summer, but mass-mailed tons of places, what is the protocol for mass-mailing now? I feel like I have already mass mailed the majority of, if not all of, the firms in the markets I want to work in. Do I mass mail again? Do I completely ignore them and look for others? Or just start afresh and pick new markets? I'm totally lost with how to proceed with this.. :cry: Any advice?


Have you considered going out and "hitting the pavement" and knocking on doors or trying to set up in person meetings? I suggest this because you struck out at OCI and haven't had any luck mass mailing. When the legal job market was really struggling a few years back, 2011-2012, I personally know of 2 recent law grads who were able to find jobs by "hitting the pavement."
Neither one of them were able to secure a position through OCI or mass mailing, but they lived in the market they wanted to work in. After obtaining their law license, they hit the pavement, met with people in person, and gave out copies of their resumes. Within 3 weeks, both attorneys had jobs at places they had essentially "cold called" in person.
This might sounds drastic and may not work in every market, or with every firm, but desperate times call for unique measures.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:51 pm

kellyfrost wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone started mass mailing yet? I am a rising 3L and just about to get started. Too early?



Slightly related question: if we struck out at OCI last summer, but mass-mailed tons of places, what is the protocol for mass-mailing now? I feel like I have already mass mailed the majority of, if not all of, the firms in the markets I want to work in. Do I mass mail again? Do I completely ignore them and look for others? Or just start afresh and pick new markets? I'm totally lost with how to proceed with this.. :cry: Any advice?


Have you considered going out and "hitting the pavement" and knocking on doors or trying to set up in person meetings? I suggest this because you struck out at OCI and haven't had any luck mass mailing. When the legal job market was really struggling a few years back, 2011-2012, I personally know of 2 recent law grads who were able to find jobs by "hitting the pavement."
Neither one of them were able to secure a position through OCI or mass mailing, but they lived in the market they wanted to work in. After obtaining their law license, they hit the pavement, met with people in person, and gave out copies of their resumes. Within 3 weeks, both attorneys had jobs at places they had essentially "cold called" in person.
This might sounds drastic and may not work in every market, or with every firm, but desperate times call for unique measures.


Anon here. Sounds very ...different. But I appreciate the input. Willing to try pretty much anything at this point. Thanks.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kellyfrost » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone started mass mailing yet? I am a rising 3L and just about to get started. Too early?



Slightly related question: if we struck out at OCI last summer, but mass-mailed tons of places, what is the protocol for mass-mailing now? I feel like I have already mass mailed the majority of, if not all of, the firms in the markets I want to work in. Do I mass mail again? Do I completely ignore them and look for others? Or just start afresh and pick new markets? I'm totally lost with how to proceed with this.. :cry: Any advice?


Have you considered going out and "hitting the pavement" and knocking on doors or trying to set up in person meetings? I suggest this because you struck out at OCI and haven't had any luck mass mailing. When the legal job market was really struggling a few years back, 2011-2012, I personally know of 2 recent law grads who were able to find jobs by "hitting the pavement."
Neither one of them were able to secure a position through OCI or mass mailing, but they lived in the market they wanted to work in. After obtaining their law license, they hit the pavement, met with people in person, and gave out copies of their resumes. Within 3 weeks, both attorneys had jobs at places they had essentially "cold called" in person.
This might sounds drastic and may not work in every market, or with every firm, but desperate times call for unique measures.


Anon here. Sounds very ...different. But I appreciate the input. Willing to try pretty much anything at this point. Thanks.


It is different, but just relaying the story of two people who did this and were successful. I would point out that this was not in a major city market, or with big law firms. It was more regional/mid size city and mid size to smaller firms.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby trumpotrumpo » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:24 pm

kellyfrost wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone started mass mailing yet? I am a rising 3L and just about to get started. Too early?



Slightly related question: if we struck out at OCI last summer, but mass-mailed tons of places, what is the protocol for mass-mailing now? I feel like I have already mass mailed the majority of, if not all of, the firms in the markets I want to work in. Do I mass mail again? Do I completely ignore them and look for others? Or just start afresh and pick new markets? I'm totally lost with how to proceed with this.. :cry: Any advice?


Have you considered going out and "hitting the pavement" and knocking on doors or trying to set up in person meetings? I suggest this because you struck out at OCI and haven't had any luck mass mailing. When the legal job market was really struggling a few years back, 2011-2012, I personally know of 2 recent law grads who were able to find jobs by "hitting the pavement."
Neither one of them were able to secure a position through OCI or mass mailing, but they lived in the market they wanted to work in. After obtaining their law license, they hit the pavement, met with people in person, and gave out copies of their resumes. Within 3 weeks, both attorneys had jobs at places they had essentially "cold called" in person.
This might sounds drastic and may not work in every market, or with every firm, but desperate times call for unique measures.



Classic baby boomer advice.

Even assuming anecdotally this strategy worked (it probably didn't), there's such a slim chance it will again. For every one associate attorney "opening" there's ~500 or so qualified JDs gunning for it. If one of these jerkoffs ever knocked on my door I'd be sympathetic, but incredibly irritated.

I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that mass mailing (or any other strategy, for that matter) is a sure fire way to obtain employment, but "knocking on doors" is super awkward and aggressive. This person is looking to be an attorney, not a bartender. That stuff doesn't work and it's alienating as shit.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby trumpotrumpo » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:24 pm

kellyfrost wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone started mass mailing yet? I am a rising 3L and just about to get started. Too early?



Slightly related question: if we struck out at OCI last summer, but mass-mailed tons of places, what is the protocol for mass-mailing now? I feel like I have already mass mailed the majority of, if not all of, the firms in the markets I want to work in. Do I mass mail again? Do I completely ignore them and look for others? Or just start afresh and pick new markets? I'm totally lost with how to proceed with this.. :cry: Any advice?


Have you considered going out and "hitting the pavement" and knocking on doors or trying to set up in person meetings? I suggest this because you struck out at OCI and haven't had any luck mass mailing. When the legal job market was really struggling a few years back, 2011-2012, I personally know of 2 recent law grads who were able to find jobs by "hitting the pavement."
Neither one of them were able to secure a position through OCI or mass mailing, but they lived in the market they wanted to work in. After obtaining their law license, they hit the pavement, met with people in person, and gave out copies of their resumes. Within 3 weeks, both attorneys had jobs at places they had essentially "cold called" in person.
This might sounds drastic and may not work in every market, or with every firm, but desperate times call for unique measures.



.
Last edited by trumpotrumpo on Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:03 pm

Eh, depends how you define hitting the pavement. Someone shouldn't just show up at a law firm, resume in hand, but informational interviewing/networking can help people out.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kellyfrost » Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:25 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Eh, depends how you define hitting the pavement. Someone shouldn't just show up at a law firm, resume in hand, but informational interviewing/networking can help people out.


I'm sure this method would not work for every firm in every market, but I am saying it worked at least twice that I know of. In the one instance, the person did not get any offers at OCI, mass mailed, sent out resumes to all open positions that they knew of or could find, ect. After striking out, they went out to meet attorneys at small to mid size firms. Showed up, resume in hand, met with a partner at the firm, and about a week later got a job offer and started working at the firm.

Maybe it was a stroke of luck or the stars aligned or something. This wouldn't happen at a V50 or large market firm, or most firms for that matter.

If I were desperate enough to find work and knew of a solid market of firms to try and target, I would give it a shot.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kaysta » Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:44 am

kellyfrost wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Eh, depends how you define hitting the pavement. Someone shouldn't just show up at a law firm, resume in hand, but informational interviewing/networking can help people out.


I'm sure this method would not work for every firm in every market, but I am saying it worked at least twice that I know of. In the one instance, the person did not get any offers at OCI, mass mailed, sent out resumes to all open positions that they knew of or could find, ect. After striking out, they went out to meet attorneys at small to mid size firms. Showed up, resume in hand, met with a partner at the firm, and about a week later got a job offer and started working at the firm.

Maybe it was a stroke of luck or the stars aligned or something. This wouldn't happen at a V50 or large market firm, or most firms for that matter.

If I were desperate enough to find work and knew of a solid market of firms to try and target, I would give it a shot.


this is such astoundingly bad advice I would suspect kellyfrost is playing with you for some kind of masochistic game of his own
You now have a couple of opinions here, YMMV anon.

[In case it's not obvious--it's terrible advice for many reasons, the simplest of which is that it will be clear that you are desperate. No one law firm hires the desperate. You may in fact be desperate, doesn't mean you present yourself that way.]
Only do this as part of some 12 step program (step 7 I believe it is)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kellyfrost » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:38 am

kaysta wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Eh, depends how you define hitting the pavement. Someone shouldn't just show up at a law firm, resume in hand, but informational interviewing/networking can help people out.


I'm sure this method would not work for every firm in every market, but I am saying it worked at least twice that I know of. In the one instance, the person did not get any offers at OCI, mass mailed, sent out resumes to all open positions that they knew of or could find, ect. After striking out, they went out to meet attorneys at small to mid size firms. Showed up, resume in hand, met with a partner at the firm, and about a week later got a job offer and started working at the firm.

Maybe it was a stroke of luck or the stars aligned or something. This wouldn't happen at a V50 or large market firm, or most firms for that matter.

If I were desperate enough to find work and knew of a solid market of firms to try and target, I would give it a shot.


this is such astoundingly bad advice I would suspect kellyfrost is playing with you for some kind of masochistic game of his own
You now have a couple of opinions here, YMMV anon.

[In case it's not obvious--it's terrible advice for many reasons, the simplest of which is that it will be clear that you are desperate. No one law firm hires the desperate. You may in fact be desperate, doesn't mean you present yourself that way.]
Only do this as part of some 12 step program (step 7 I believe it is)


Lol!

Mass mailing screams desperate as well. Bidding at OCI also shows you are desperate for a job. If you already had a job you wouldn't need OCI, so what are you doing there throwing yourself in front of as many people as you can bid?
The fact of the matter is, more often than not (94+% I believe) when a recent graduate is looking for their first job as a lawyer, they are desperate. They don't know how to practice, they have no income, they have massive student loan debts, ect. Read these forums about interviews, hiring, and job prospects, I would say law school grads are some of the most desperate people out there.

No one has to follow my advice. I'm just sharing it to highlight that some people have thought outside the mass mailing box before and were successful.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:00 am

People calling securities is what's gonna happen if you show up with resume in hands. That's called soliciting and in some states constitutes criminal trespass.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby mrs.miawallace » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:00 am

accidental anon

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Nebby » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:People calling securities is what's gonna happen if you show up with resume in hands. That's called soliciting and in some states constitutes criminal trespass.

The most generous interpretation of KF's point is that you cold-email the partner, set up lunch, and then "show up with resume in hand." I don't think KF was telling people to literally walk to a law firm unannounced and drop off a resume like it's a pizza place hiring a delivery worker or something.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BrittaBot » Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:28 am

I don't think KF was telling people to literally walk to a law firm unannounced and drop off a resume like it's a pizza place hiring a delivery worker or something.


My husband has been looking for a new job for the past 6 months (and this always has happened in the past when he has been too). Non-legal field, he didn't go to law school, but literally whenever he talked to anyone over the age of 50 about the difficulties of obtaining a job/even getting an interview, their response was, "You gotta go into these places in person."

Right. And then they call security so how is that helping exactly? I wish I lived in this baby boomer dream world.




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