The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Manali
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Manali » Fri May 06, 2016 10:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
ballouttacontrol wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Still in the vale, 2015 grad. Had an interview and offer in Manhattan for a litigation position, but had to turn it down. They offered $60k for 2400 billable hours. My commuting cost from outside the city would've been over 10% of my pay and 3 hours every day. I keep calling alumni and mass-mailing. Attorneys keep telling me that they're surprised I'm not getting a lot of interviews (Top 10%, military), but it doesn't really help to hear that at this point. I'm nearly at my breaking point.


Those are really tough terms to swallow, and I don't know your situation obviously, but I'd probably have taken it.

Obviously, you are able to evaluate them much better than anonymous weirdos. But just make sure your sights are set realistically. There are a lot of unemployed T1 JDs that would practically kill for 60k for 2.4k hrs. Maybe not with your resume, but be careful bra that's all

Same anonymous here. Updating because I wanted to let people know that there are opportunities out there.

Anyways, 2015 grad with no interviews until March. Then I had 6 interviews in the 2 week span. Received 5 offers (I interview well) ranging from 60-130k and billable requirements of 1800-2400. I'm starting my job in NYC next week.

So, silence for 10 months and then 9 interviews in about 5 weeks. It seems to all come at once, I was offered 3 more interviews in Boston last week. Keep applying and calling/meeting alumni. Make sure your resume and cover letter are perfect.


Any advice re cover letters, outside of typo free and targeted? I think mine are good, but always hoping to improve.


Always highlight your ties to the market in the first paragraph.

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Lincoln
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lincoln » Fri May 06, 2016 10:35 am

Manali wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Any advice re cover letters, outside of typo free and targeted? I think mine are good, but always hoping to improve.


Always highlight your ties to the market in the first paragraph.


Unless it's NYC.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 06, 2016 10:42 am

I wish TLS had a similar thing as to law school personal statement as to cover letters, because my CSO is totally useless.

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Easy-E
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Easy-E » Fri May 06, 2016 12:40 pm

1) If you aren't shooting for biglaw and you aren't top 20%, should I still have my law school GPA? I mean, taking it off basically just says "it isn't good", but I also worry that it's listed before my work experience.

2) I was under the impression my resume was fine (I'm just not super-competitive), but any general advice? Or perhaps, an example or template? I hope I'm not making some major screw up.

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Nebby
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Nebby » Fri May 06, 2016 12:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I wish TLS had a similar thing as to law school personal statement as to cover letters, because my CSO is totally useless.

It can be. Just need to make a thread in Legal Employment and have it stickied. That's actually a really good idea.

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ilovesf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ilovesf » Fri May 06, 2016 12:49 pm

Easy-E wrote:1) If you aren't shooting for biglaw and you aren't top 20%, should I still have my law school GPA? I mean, taking it off basically just says "it isn't good", but I also worry that it's listed before my work experience.

2) I was under the impression my resume was fine (I'm just not super-competitive), but any general advice? Or perhaps, an example or template? I hope I'm not making some major screw up.

I hire my own law clerks (not permanent employment so idk if it matters to you) and I definitely notice if it isn't there. I don't really care that much about GPA in general but I pretty much assume it's not very good if it isn't listed.

Puttanesca
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Puttanesca » Fri May 06, 2016 2:19 pm

Manali wrote:Always highlight your ties to the market in the first paragraph.


Anyone have a sense of how much fed gov cares about ties (talking about both DC and regional offices)? I've seen quite a few threads on geographic ties with respect to law firms, but not so much on gov.

Londonbear
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Londonbear » Fri May 06, 2016 2:48 pm

Puttanesca wrote:
Manali wrote:Always highlight your ties to the market in the first paragraph.


Anyone have a sense of how much fed gov cares about ties (talking about both DC and regional offices)? I've seen quite a few threads on geographic ties with respect to law firms, but not so much on gov.


In DC. I don't think they care as much about ties as firms or maybe even at all (don't think they're concerned about attrition and whether you're going to leave before they can make their money back), but if you know people in the agency, that would take you further than ties to the region.

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FSK
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FSK » Fri May 06, 2016 3:24 pm

I think I'm just going to start posting in here under my main handle to get the best advice. I'm a 3L, no job, top 25%, T20, and its awful. In the past year I've been rejected from final interviews from SSC clerkships, federal honors, V5s, and on down. Had an economics no-offer, and decided that I hated law firms and I'm looking more at policy/public interest stuff. Spent my last semester working full time on the hill for a judiciary committee, where there's a chance I can return in the fall on a temporary basis. I have one screener for biglaw outstanding now, but not super hopeful.

My experience has been really good and super focused on one small niche area, soft IP. But, I actually have experience in this, at the senate and at a previous law firm (doing 17 USC 111/119 stuff), as well as booking or A'ing every IP class I've taken. But I definitely horned myself into narrow and Im feeling it now.

No quote, but just want to put some more details out.

Jchance
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Jchance » Fri May 06, 2016 4:47 pm

^I'm guessing GW. Have you thought about think tank as a research fellow, given your proximity to DC? They do policy work, relaxed hours and pay decent.

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FSK
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FSK » Fri May 06, 2016 4:52 pm

That's a good idea....any recommended orgs to target? Haven't seriously considered yet (though will now). I know the orgs for the issue areas I have experience with.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 06, 2016 5:29 pm

Puttanesca wrote:
MzJD wrote:I posted this in a new forum but someone suggested posting here any thoughts?

"Hi I am doing a legal job search but I have been unsuccessful thus far. I am not sure what types of positions I should apply for because I haven't passed the bar yet ( failed Jul 2015). I am waiting for Feb results and hopefully they are successful. But should I just wait until I get results or keeping looking now. Most attorney jobs state that you "MUST" have passed the bar in AZ. They also request at least 1-2 years of experience. Any advice would be great I am starting to stress out!"


How much longer is it before you get bar results? I would keep looking now and just state that you took the AZ bar in February. Then update the places you apply to when you pass the bar. However, if you're going to get your bar results like next week and the job application deadline is after then, then I would wait until you pass the bar before applying to that particular job so you can say you passed.

As for the 1-2 years experience, it depends on where you are applying. For private practice, apply. For fed gov, don't bother. I'm not sure about state/local gov in Arizona.[/quote


Hey im still on the hunt i will get results next week so i think ill just chill out until then i may apply for a few firms but i may as well wait until i find out my fate! As of now ive gotten a handful of rejections from nonlegal or compliance jobs so ill keep you guys posted. Oh yeah im also 2015 grad still in the vale

Manali
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Manali » Fri May 06, 2016 9:57 pm

Lincoln wrote:
Manali wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Any advice re cover letters, outside of typo free and targeted? I think mine are good, but always hoping to improve.


Always highlight your ties to the market in the first paragraph.


Unless it's NYC.


Is this true for public interest too? (PD, DA, legal aid)

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 07, 2016 12:09 am

Is it okay to contact firms who offer to pay associates $15/hour to let them know they are awful people?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat May 07, 2016 12:23 am

Puttanesca wrote:
Manali wrote:Always highlight your ties to the market in the first paragraph.


Anyone have a sense of how much fed gov cares about ties (talking about both DC and regional offices)? I've seen quite a few threads on geographic ties with respect to law firms, but not so much on gov.

I think it probably varies by who's doing the hiring - it's probably not really a thing for DC, but I think regional offices can care. Basically you have to have a good narrative for why you want/are qualified for the job (I think more so than for firms), and local ties can be part of that. But not having ties isn't insurmountable if you can show that you have real dedication to the agency's mission. It can be hard to track down who's working in gov offices, but there's a specific job you're aiming for, I would try searching LinkedIn or Avvo or the like to see if you can find anyone who works there, and look at (for instance) where they're barred and/or graduated law school. Some offices will have a ton of local people, some won't. Not that you can control what they want, but if they look like they love local people, you can think about how to make your pitch.

Jchance
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Jchance » Sat May 07, 2016 12:29 am

FSK wrote:That's a good idea....any recommended orgs to target? Haven't seriously considered yet (though will now). I know the orgs for the issue areas I have experience with.


I don't know much about different orgs but they are all inter-connected, so networking and cold applying would be your best bet. Unless your undergrad was in econ (which you'd have an easier time getting a job at a think tank), you should consider doing a few blog post on medium.com about issues you are passionate about and link hiring people to that (as your writing samples). Also, every policy person I know is on Twitter, that's like their professional networking site.

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FSK
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FSK » Sat May 07, 2016 12:34 am

My undergrad is actually in econ <_<

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon May 09, 2016 7:05 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Puttanesca wrote:
Manali wrote:Always highlight your ties to the market in the first paragraph.


Anyone have a sense of how much fed gov cares about ties (talking about both DC and regional offices)? I've seen quite a few threads on geographic ties with respect to law firms, but not so much on gov.

I think it probably varies by who's doing the hiring - it's probably not really a thing for DC, but I think regional offices can care. Basically you have to have a good narrative for why you want/are qualified for the job (I think more so than for firms), and local ties can be part of that. But not having ties isn't insurmountable if you can show that you have real dedication to the agency's mission. It can be hard to track down who's working in gov offices, but there's a specific job you're aiming for, I would try searching LinkedIn or Avvo or the like to see if you can find anyone who works there, and look at (for instance) where they're barred and/or graduated law school. Some offices will have a ton of local people, some won't. Not that you can control what they want, but if they look like they love local people, you can think about how to make your pitch.


The answer is... It depends. Some regional offices have a problem getting qualified candidates so they will care slightly less about ties but they will want to see some commitment from you to the area.

Puttanesca
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Puttanesca » Mon May 09, 2016 7:28 pm

zot1 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Puttanesca wrote:
Manali wrote:Always highlight your ties to the market in the first paragraph.


Anyone have a sense of how much fed gov cares about ties (talking about both DC and regional offices)? I've seen quite a few threads on geographic ties with respect to law firms, but not so much on gov.

I think it probably varies by who's doing the hiring - it's probably not really a thing for DC, but I think regional offices can care. Basically you have to have a good narrative for why you want/are qualified for the job (I think more so than for firms), and local ties can be part of that. But not having ties isn't insurmountable if you can show that you have real dedication to the agency's mission. It can be hard to track down who's working in gov offices, but there's a specific job you're aiming for, I would try searching LinkedIn or Avvo or the like to see if you can find anyone who works there, and look at (for instance) where they're barred and/or graduated law school. Some offices will have a ton of local people, some won't. Not that you can control what they want, but if they look like they love local people, you can think about how to make your pitch.


The answer is... It depends. Some regional offices have a problem getting qualified candidates so they will care slightly less about ties but they will want to see some commitment from you to the area.


Which regional offices are these that are having trouble getting qualified candidates? Maybe I should apply, haha. Assuming they are in what most people would think of as less desirable parts of the country to live in.

Anyway, thanks guys for the replies on ties!

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 10, 2016 3:37 pm

Newbie around but 2015 grad still on this job searching grind. About two months ago, I had an interview with a small firm where I live and then a call back a couple of weeks later. A couple of weeks after that, they email saying I'm still a top candidate, and they'll get back to me soon. Two weeks after that, I send a follow up, and they respond saying they're still evaluating candidates. Today, I looked on the website and they have reposted the job posting for this position. Do I give up at this point or do I follow up again? If I follow up again...should it be email or phone call to the recruiting partner? Thanks for any help! I just want out of the Vale!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 10, 2016 8:04 pm

Was in veil until about a couple months ago when tiny firm I was clerking for gave offer contingent on graduating, passing bar, etc. I accepted,and got small signing bonus w/ a clause that said I had to repay bonus if I ended up going elsewhere. Don't get me wrong I was psyched to be out of the veil, but pay is 48K . I get along well but with everyone and enjoy the work mostly, but I've been applying to other things.....not bites until yesterday:

Got a clerkship interview scheduled the morning of my graduation ceremony.....would feel pretty bad if I got clerkship and burned firm this late....clerkship pay not thaaaat much more but always wanted to clerk.....any thoughts are appreciated..... :?

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ManoftheHour
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ManoftheHour » Tue May 10, 2016 8:07 pm

2L is over. Checking in.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 10, 2016 9:52 pm

Class of 2015, posted last week about not having any real prospects for most of a year before I got 4 interviews in the space of two weeks. Well, I got an offer today for a federal magistrate clerkship in a pretty good city. This was the best of the four options I had, so I'm pretty happy. Man, it feels good to finally write one of these posts, I've been reading them for literally two years now.

I wish there was something better we could say to the valers besides "it only takes one" or encouraging people to mail that 100th app after having been rejected 99 times. But that's the truth, and it's all we can do.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 10, 2016 10:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Was in veil until about a couple months ago when tiny firm I was clerking for gave offer contingent on graduating, passing bar, etc. I accepted,and got small signing bonus w/ a clause that said I had to repay bonus if I ended up going elsewhere. Don't get me wrong I was psyched to be out of the veil, but pay is 48K . I get along well but with everyone and enjoy the work mostly, but I've been applying to other things.....not bites until yesterday:

Got a clerkship interview scheduled the morning of my graduation ceremony.....would feel pretty bad if I got clerkship and burned firm this late....clerkship pay not thaaaat much more but always wanted to clerk.....any thoughts are appreciated..... :?


I'm in the same boat. I got a job offer in mid-March from a 10-ish attorney firm in a small college town about 3 hours from anything cool, and the pay is $47k. I took it knowing I had a 2nd round interview in my hometown the following week with a firm that prioritized ties. I expected to get that job and bail on the first firm within a week. Needless to say I didn't end up getting that job. Fast forward to now and I've got 2 interviews lined up for next week. Yes, I'd feel really bad about bailing on the small firm this late in the game, but I've gotta do what's best for me and hope they understand. If I were you, I would take the clerkship interview, and the job if offered, and not lose too much sleep about it.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 11, 2016 1:21 am

Long time lurker. 2015 grad, finally out of the Vale.

I reached out to a friend of a friend who is not in the legal field at all (he is a software engineer) about 6 months back to see if he knew anyone who may be hiring attorneys. He didn't know anyone at the time, and said he would keep an eye out. I almost did not contact him in the first place as I didn't really know him, and thought it was weird to contact a non-attorney about potential legal jobs.

Out of the blue, he reached out about a month back and said his company needed another in-house attorney. It is a small tech startup with a few attorneys, and I got the job and started working a couple weeks ago. I don't have a ton of advice to give, other than to keep your head up and keep trying to network. I would have never thought that talking to this friend of a friend would lead to a sweet in-house gig. I just wanted to say thanks for everyone's support in this thread. It really helped to see other people's success stories to know that there was hope.




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