The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Class of 2013 grad here! After 3 years of networking, coffees with random attorneys and desperate job searching, I am happy to say that I'm Out of the Vale today! I'll be working as an attorney for a Fed Govt Agency and I couldn't be more pleased!

Wouldn't have made it this far without my faith in God, my fam, friends, and the support that I've found on this board.

Btw, shout out to Rad Lulz! We went to the same school together and he gave me some great advice one day! Good luck to the rest of you guys here, keep grindin, God bless!

[spleenworship]

Class of 2013 grad here! After 3 years of networking, coffees with random attorneys and desperate job searching, I am happy to say that I'm Out of the Vale today! I'll be working as an attorney for a Fed Govt Agency and I couldn't be more pleased!

Wouldn't have made it this far without my faith in God, my fam, friends, and the support that I've found on this board.

Btw, shout out to Rad Lulz! We went to the same school together and he gave me some great advice one day! Good luck to the rest of you guys here, keep grindin, God bless!

Congrats!

[rad lulz]

Class of 2013 grad here! After 3 years of networking, coffees with random attorneys and desperate job searching, I am happy to say that I'm Out of the Vale today! I'll be working as an attorney for a Fed Govt Agency and I couldn't be more pleased!

Wouldn't have made it this far without my faith in God, my fam, friends, and the support that I've found on this board.

Btw, shout out to Rad Lulz! We went to the same school together and he gave me some great advice one day! Good luck to the rest of you guys here, keep grindin, God bless!

Oh dude glad I could help

That's fuckin awesome. Fed agency is a sick gig

Pm me so I can find out who you are if you're comfortable

Though I have a suspicion

[jaydizzle]

Class of 2013 grad here! After 3 years of networking, coffees with random attorneys and desperate job searching, I am happy to say that I'm Out of the Vale today! I'll be working as an attorney for a Fed Govt Agency and I couldn't be more pleased!

Wouldn't have made it this far without my faith in God, my fam, friends, and the support that I've found on this board.

Btw, shout out to Rad Lulz! We went to the same school together and he gave me some great advice one day! Good luck to the rest of you guys here, keep grindin, God bless!

Congrats bro! I would love a fed agency gig.

[Bikeflip]

Happy for you anon bro!

[Anonymous User]

Happy for you anon bro!

Thanks guys! Means alot! Keep hangin in there, you guys still lookin I hope you all are very close to the promise-land!

[Pretzel_Logic]

Class of 2013 grad here! After 3 years of networking, coffees with random attorneys and desperate job searching, I am happy to say that I'm Out of the Vale today! I'll be working as an attorney for a Fed Govt Agency and I couldn't be more pleased!

Wouldn't have made it this far without my faith in God, my fam, friends, and the support that I've found on this board.

Btw, shout out to Rad Lulz! We went to the same school together and he gave me some great advice one day! Good luck to the rest of you guys here, keep grindin, God bless!

this is so awesome, congrats!!

[Anonymous User]

You can't get a job at the CDC or Department of Human Health Services? Doing ANYTHING? Legal or non.

Seriously, why do you think this is a remotely helpful response?

I actually wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the person who had a Masters in Public Health and I recommended two agencies who would seemingly want someone with a Masters in Public Health and a Law Degree. But thanks for trying to critique me.

Do you really think I'm stupid enough to think you were talking to me? Of course you weren't talking to me. But since you were being an asshole, I called you on it. This is not the thread for this kind of totally unhelpful blame-the-applicant post. You weren't recommending anything, you were expressing incredulity that this person hadn't got a job in either of those places. Which is, again, unhelpful - obviously the poster hasn't found jobs in those agencies or they wouldn't be posting here talking about not having a job. You need to stay out of this thread until you can figure out how to post constructively.

Sorry I've been out - interviewing, gladhanding, kissing babies, etc. I wrote the initial health law inquiry. Sparty, I didn't take your suggestion as an affront. You are correct that I should (theoretically and unpromisingly) be able to find something at CDC, FDA, DHHS, etc. However, having 10 years of federal government experience I'm hesitant to go immediately back there and question how firms would view such boomeranging. Perhaps that's naive of me not even to try, but that's a decision I've had to make, and the consequences I'll have to accept.

Real promising big firm interview this week. Just sprung up out of the blue. The cart is certainly not before the horse. But, it's nice to have a boost of confidence that someone is willing to invest in me.

[Anonymous User]

Question for you grads who are doing repayment plans that are based on income (I'm specifically thinking of IBR and PAYE).

I'm putting this in the Vale thread because it's somewhat related to the Vale and could also be helpful to fellow Valers that are going through the same situation.

I am currently on the IBR plan. I wanted PAYE, but I got on IBR because the form I first filled out didn't have PAYE (did anyone else have this problem?).

Now I'm paying under an IBR plan, but I want to eventually switch over to PAYE because it's better in the long-run. I asked my loan servicer if I could switch from IBR to PAYE, and they told me that I could do it, but I had to cancel my IBR first. And then after cancelling, apply for PAYE. And in the meantime, they tell me that I might have to make one full standard monthly payment (at least $2000) while they review my PAYE application.

Anyone have experience with this? I remember Nony was pretty helpful on these matters. Any advice? =)

[A. Nony Mouse]

Question for you grads who are doing repayment plans that are based on income (I'm specifically thinking of IBR and PAYE).

I'm putting this in the Vale thread because it's somewhat related to the Vale and could also be helpful to fellow Valers that are going through the same situation.

I am currently on the IBR plan. I wanted PAYE, but I got on IBR because the form I first filled out didn't have PAYE (did anyone else have this problem?).

Now I'm paying under an IBR plan, but I want to eventually switch over to PAYE because it's better in the long-run. I asked my loan servicer if I could switch from IBR to PAYE, and they told me that I could do it, but I had to cancel my IBR first. And then after cancelling, apply for PAYE. And in the meantime, they tell me that I might have to make one full standard monthly payment (at least $2000) while they review my PAYE application.

Anyone have experience with this? I remember Nony was pretty helpful on these matters. Any advice? =)

I haven't done this, but that sounds like how I understand the process to work. You can change your payment plan at any time, according to the website. In particular, I'm recertifying my IBR right now, and they always say how you might have to pay a full standard payment if they're still reviewing your application for a particular plan when your payment date rolls around. However, unless you have some really weird income situation, I don't think it would be more than one full payment (maybe strategically apply for the new plan the day after you make a payment).

PAYE wasn't available on the form when I first filled it out because PAYE didn't exist yet. And I graduated too early to be able to switch to PAYE (you have to have received a loan on/after Oct 1, 2011, and I graduated in May 2011). But I'd think if you were a 2012 grad, say, so PAYE wasn't around when you first signed up, but is now, it would totally make sense to switch.

[Anonymous User]

Question for you grads who are doing repayment plans that are based on income (I'm specifically thinking of IBR and PAYE).

I'm putting this in the Vale thread because it's somewhat related to the Vale and could also be helpful to fellow Valers that are going through the same situation.

I am currently on the IBR plan. I wanted PAYE, but I got on IBR because the form I first filled out didn't have PAYE (did anyone else have this problem?).

Now I'm paying under an IBR plan, but I want to eventually switch over to PAYE because it's better in the long-run. I asked my loan servicer if I could switch from IBR to PAYE, and they told me that I could do it, but I had to cancel my IBR first. And then after cancelling, apply for PAYE. And in the meantime, they tell me that I might have to make one full standard monthly payment (at least $2000) while they review my PAYE application.

Anyone have experience with this? I remember Nony was pretty helpful on these matters. Any advice? =)

I haven't done this, but that sounds like how I understand the process to work. You can change your payment plan at any time, according to the website. In particular, I'm recertifying my IBR right now, and they always say how you might have to pay a full standard payment if they're still reviewing your application for a particular plan when your payment date rolls around. However, unless you have some really weird income situation, I don't think it would be more than one full payment (maybe strategically apply for the new plan the day after you make a payment).

PAYE wasn't available on the form when I first filled it out because PAYE didn't exist yet. And I graduated too early to be able to switch to PAYE (you have to have received a loan on/after Oct 1, 2011, and I graduated in May 2011). But I'd think if you were a 2012 grad, say, so PAYE wasn't around when you first signed up, but is now, it would totally make sense to switch.

Thanks. I'll think about switching when I have a little more money. Making even one standard monthly payment of $2000 would really hurt right now.

[worldtraveler]

Question for you grads who are doing repayment plans that are based on income (I'm specifically thinking of IBR and PAYE).

I'm putting this in the Vale thread because it's somewhat related to the Vale and could also be helpful to fellow Valers that are going through the same situation.

I am currently on the IBR plan. I wanted PAYE, but I got on IBR because the form I first filled out didn't have PAYE (did anyone else have this problem?).

Now I'm paying under an IBR plan, but I want to eventually switch over to PAYE because it's better in the long-run. I asked my loan servicer if I could switch from IBR to PAYE, and they told me that I could do it, but I had to cancel my IBR first. And then after cancelling, apply for PAYE. And in the meantime, they tell me that I might have to make one full standard monthly payment (at least $2000) while they review my PAYE application.

Anyone have experience with this? I remember Nony was pretty helpful on these matters. Any advice? =)

I haven't done this, but that sounds like how I understand the process to work. You can change your payment plan at any time, according to the website. In particular, I'm recertifying my IBR right now, and they always say how you might have to pay a full standard payment if they're still reviewing your application for a particular plan when your payment date rolls around. However, unless you have some really weird income situation, I don't think it would be more than one full payment (maybe strategically apply for the new plan the day after you make a payment).

PAYE wasn't available on the form when I first filled it out because PAYE didn't exist yet. And I graduated too early to be able to switch to PAYE (you have to have received a loan on/after Oct 1, 2011, and I graduated in May 2011). But I'd think if you were a 2012 grad, say, so PAYE wasn't around when you first signed up, but is now, it would totally make sense to switch.

Thanks. I'll think about switching when I have a little more money. Making even one standard monthly payment of $2000 would really hurt right now.

I don't know if this is how you are supposed to do it, but I missed my first payment this year because my IBR application wasn't processed yet. Once it was processed my payment was retroactively adjusted and they removed the missed payment from my credit. I wouldn't pay 2k unless you're 100% sure you have to.

[Anonymous User]

Does anybody ever cold call in person? I was thinking of going down to the PD's office in my hometown over spring break but wasn't sure if that was too gunnery.

Also my career services swears that PD/DA offices prefer snail mail resumes/cover letters. I've been trying this method but so far I've heard nothing but radio silence and it's getting kind of expenses with stamps and nice mailers. Is snail mail really the way to go or is that more bad advice?

[elpolitico]

Does anybody ever cold call in person? I was thinking of going down to the PD's office in my hometown over spring break but wasn't sure if that was too gunnery.

I would not cold call. Folks generally don't appreciate that. A cold email is fine though. I would encourage you to send that email well in advance of your spring break because you likely won't receive a response very quickly (or at all ).

[spleenworship]

Does anybody ever cold call in person? I was thinking of going down to the PD's office in my hometown over spring break but wasn't sure if that was too gunnery.

Also my career services swears that PD/DA offices prefer snail mail resumes/cover letters. I've been trying this method but so far I've heard nothing but radio silence and it's getting kind of expenses with stamps and nice mailers. Is snail mail really the way to go or is that more bad advice?

Not a single PDs office I've applied to has used fucking snail mail.

Also, I wouldn't go in person. I'd call and if necessary email head of misdemeanors and explain who you are and ask if you can intern or at least shadow.

[elpolitico]

Class of 2013 grad here, again. After a second-round interview with a shit law solo practitioner, I got dinged via email. The Vale hurts.

I am networking on a fairly regular basis, applying to everything that I am quasi-qualified for, and volunteering, yet getting virtually no interviews. Anyone out there consistently getting interviews using other methods?

[deadpanic]

Does anybody ever cold call in person? I was thinking of going down to the PD's office in my hometown over spring break but wasn't sure if that was too gunnery.

Also my career services swears that PD/DA offices prefer snail mail resumes/cover letters. I've been trying this method but so far I've heard nothing but radio silence and it's getting kind of expenses with stamps and nice mailers. Is snail mail really the way to go or is that more bad advice?

If you just showed up wanting to interview, I would think that would be a bad time. Most attorneys have their day already planned out and don't want to spend their time talking to a 3L begging for a job.

In my experience, snail mail is slightly better. A lot of the hiring people (like Deputy DAs) don't even read their emails - they are older and prefer a physical resume handed to them but YMMV. I guess the way I see it is when it is a close call with legal hiring, go with the traditional method. Most lawyers I know prefer holding on to the old school formal method as long as possible.

[Lawst]

Does anybody ever cold call in person? I was thinking of going down to the PD's office in my hometown over spring break but wasn't sure if that was too gunnery.

Also my career services swears that PD/DA offices prefer snail mail resumes/cover letters. I've been trying this method but so far I've heard nothing but radio silence and it's getting kind of expenses with stamps and nice mailers. Is snail mail really the way to go or is that more bad advice?

If that office is one that only does post-bar offers, then you'll want to apply to work for them as a volunteer attorney until you're barred anyway. So, find out how to apply and explain that you'll be in town that week and ask if you can shadow/come in get a general sense of how the office works. So, basically what spleen said, but with the additional step of applying to volunteer after you take the bar.

[a male human]

Do employers typically make you feel like you got the job then later go cold? That happened to me once. I had an interview this morning, and I have no idea what's going to happen because I forgot to ask for a timeline.

[chrisbru]

Do employers typically make you feel like you got the job then later go cold? That happened to me once. I had an interview this morning, and I have no idea what's going to happen because I forgot to ask for a timeline.

I had this happen for a part-time job in town last fall. The guy literally said "well, I plan on hiring you, so I'll call with details next week." He never called, and never responded to a voicemail I left for him. Super weird.

[BarbellDreams]

I interviewed with a state Supreme Court Justice when I was a 1L for a summer gig who showed me around the chambers, said "this will be your office", asked if I'd be willing to play cards with him and the other Justices if there is ever an hour to kill and, to end the interview, said "I think you're a great fit here and we could really work well together." Email ding the next day. The day before that I interviewed with a DAs office 5 attorney panel which I still hold was by far the worst interview I ever did (think deer in headlights look the entire time). Offer within the week.

You really just never know. Too many factors outside of your control to really gauge what is happening. Just do your best and don't take it personally if it doesn't go your way.

[horriblegb]

Do employers typically make you feel like you got the job then later go cold? That happened to me once. I had an interview this morning, and I have no idea what's going to happen because I forgot to ask for a timeline.

Had an employer tell me I was her top choice and that she would decide the following week. Two weeks go by, I shoot an email, says it will be another week. this goes on for about a month and a half. Finally, brings me in to "meet the attorneys I will be working with" I was dinged an hour after leaving for the reason that they "want someone with experience"

I must have said something that left a super sour taste in their mouth, but I had thought everything went fine.

I also had an interview 1L that lasted less than 10 minutes and I hardly said anything and got the job.

Inconsistency rage!

[champ33]

3L here, been lurking in this thread for a while. I'm wondering if anyone has looked into 1) licensing/contract administrator-type jobs at music and entertainment companies, and/or 2) compliance/assistant athletics director at universities (http://ncaamarket.ncaa.org/jobs/ is a good resource). I personally have been considering non-legal paths for quite a while, as I just find it harder and harder to convince myself that I enjoy anything about litigation, and both of these areas often having postings that "prefer JD," etc.

I'm wondering, from anyone who knows more, is it better to wait to apply to these until after I've taken the bar? I'm guessing they would be more immediate hire, and wouldn't want to interview with the expectation that I study for the bar and start working in 6 months.

[chrisbru]

3L here, been lurking in this thread for a while. I'm wondering if anyone has looked into 1) licensing/contract administrator-type jobs at music and entertainment companies, and/or 2) compliance/assistant athletics director at universities (http://ncaamarket.ncaa.org/jobs/ is a good resource). I personally have been considering non-legal paths for quite a while, as I just find it harder and harder to convince myself that I enjoy anything about litigation, and both of these areas often having postings that "prefer JD," etc.

I'm wondering, from anyone who knows more, is it better to wait to apply to these until after I've taken the bar? I'm guessing they would be more immediate hire, and wouldn't want to interview with the expectation that I study for the bar and start working in 6 months.

Depends on the company. I just got hired as a contracts manager/risk manager at a real estate company, and they don't even care if I take the bar... I actually started part-time this week, and go full-time after graduation. Your best bet is to try and connect with someone in those industries in the positions you are after, and see what they say about it.

I'd imagine if they "prefer JD" though, that they won't care if you take the bar.

Although, maybe you are saying you want to take the bar right away even if you don't need it, in which case it is a different conversation.

[Anonymous User]

3L here, been lurking in this thread for a while. I'm wondering if anyone has looked into 1) licensing/contract administrator-type jobs at music and entertainment companies, and/or 2) compliance/assistant athletics director at universities (http://ncaamarket.ncaa.org/jobs/ is a good resource). I personally have been considering non-legal paths for quite a while, as I just find it harder and harder to convince myself that I enjoy anything about litigation, and both of these areas often having postings that "prefer JD," etc.

I'm wondering, from anyone who knows more, is it better to wait to apply to these until after I've taken the bar? I'm guessing they would be more immediate hire, and wouldn't want to interview with the expectation that I study for the bar and start working in 6 months.

Depends on the company. I just got hired as a contracts manager/risk manager at a real estate company, and they don't even care if I take the bar... I actually started part-time this week, and go full-time after graduation. Your best bet is to try and connect with someone in those industries in the positions you are after, and see what they say about it.

I'd imagine if they "prefer JD" though, that they won't care if you take the bar.

Although, maybe you are saying you want to take the bar right away even if you don't need it, in which case it is a different conversation.

That sounds like a great gig. And you're right, I am planning to take the bar. I guess I am still holding out some hope that I may find something legal that I won't hate, and part of me just wants to have passed the bar even if I go the non-legal route (I guess there is no real logic to this). So I guess what makes most sense is to keep looking for a legal job, and to start applying for immediate start, non-legal jd preferred stuff once I am still unemployed after the bar?