The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I have no idea what to do.

I have an offer. Which is great. But.. I'm almost 300k in debt, and it pays less than half of market in Palo Alto. I'm terrified that I'll never be able to pay my loan back, retire, or buy property. I'm terrified I'll never get a better paying job. I feel like my current job is a black mark on my resume, and my resume will be forever tainted with it. So even if I DO get a better job, I'll be in a worse financial position in the future (as I won't be able to even keep up with the interest on my loan).

I've honestly never considered suicide as seriously as I have right now. I just don't see a way out of the miserable mess my life has become.

[Rlabo]

I have no idea what to do.

I have an offer. Which is great. But.. I'm almost 300k in debt, and it pays less than half of market in Palo Alto. I'm terrified that I'll never be able to pay my loan back, retire, or buy property. I'm terrified I'll never get a better paying job. I feel like my current job is a black mark on my resume, and my resume will be forever tainted with it. So even if I DO get a better job, I'll be in a worse financial position in the future (as I won't be able to even keep up with the interest on my loan).

I've honestly never considered suicide as seriously as I have right now. I just don't see a way out of the miserable mess my life has become.

Hey, look I don't know what your personal life is like but I know it's gonna be ok. I'm not gonna tell you that there are other people out there with worse problems because I don't know what your problems are, but I do know it gets better. Life is like a roller coaster with ups and downs and twists and turns, and you may be on a down right now, but an up will come. If it's money, money comes and money goes, don't let it consume you. You are going to be ok. Look, I'm just a stranger on the Internet and I care, I'm sure there are others in your life too. Think of them and know that everything is going to be ok.

[Anonymous User]

I have no idea what to do.

I have an offer. Which is great. But.. I'm almost 300k in debt, and it pays less than half of market in Palo Alto. I'm terrified that I'll never be able to pay my loan back, retire, or buy property. I'm terrified I'll never get a better paying job. I feel like my current job is a black mark on my resume, and my resume will be forever tainted with it. So even if I DO get a better job, I'll be in a worse financial position in the future (as I won't be able to even keep up with the interest on my loan).

I've honestly never considered suicide as seriously as I have right now. I just don't see a way out of the miserable mess my life has become.

Ditto to everything the poster above said.

I don't know your situation, but please know that life takes twists and turns you can't even imagine right now. I say this as someone who is likely at least 2 decades older than the average recent law school grad. Twenty years ago, I could not have imagined the things that have happened along the way. Some good, some bad, but the problems ALWAYS worked out. I've been in financial situations where I simply could not see a solution and just felt buried under debt. There is light now, and I feel peace.

For me, I've taken a public interest job – my first offer since graduating in May 2015. My loans will be forgiven in ten years if I stay there, and a state bar foundation offers annual grants to people working at certain public interest organizations to help with the monthly payments. My salary is lower than my private firm colleagues, but the benefits and hours beat all. I'm not sure if public interest is your thing or not, but just wanted to share in case you'd considered it.

Please hang in there and know that it will eventually get better.

[EvelynS]

2015 Grad, and I just got a job last week, and well my dream job has also been in the pipeline. Unemployment was demoralizing, but please do not give up. I went on 12 interviews before I landed my current gig.

Would you mind sharing any advice on effective job search and how to address this one year "employment gap"? You can PM me. Thanks!

[EvelynS]

I am so tired of all these rejections and mostly no-answers. 2015 grad still in the vale. I am so ready to give up.

Do not give up. Knocking on so many doors, but just remember you only need one door to open. Once you get the nod, all this time you've spent looking will be in the past.

If you need to vent or chat or whatever, feel free to PM me.

Thank you!

[zot1]

I have no idea what to do.

I have an offer. Which is great. But.. I'm almost 300k in debt, and it pays less than half of market in Palo Alto. I'm terrified that I'll never be able to pay my loan back, retire, or buy property. I'm terrified I'll never get a better paying job. I feel like my current job is a black mark on my resume, and my resume will be forever tainted with it. So even if I DO get a better job, I'll be in a worse financial position in the future (as I won't be able to even keep up with the interest on my loan).

I've honestly never considered suicide as seriously as I have right now. I just don't see a way out of the miserable mess my life has become.

Dude, I understand that things at the moment are not great for you right now. However, one thing to keep in mind is that within the legal profession, you have tons of room to grow. This means that even if you're not making the kind of money you need/want in your first years of practice, you will have an opportunity to do so in the future.

Further, loan companies are usually good at working with you to help you set up a plan that works for you. I would definitely reach out to your provider and explain the situation you're in.

Finally, don't lose perspective. Just because things may not seem great right this second, it doesn't mean they will be forever. You just gotta regroup and work out a plan of attack. Reach out to people you love and trust because they will be wanting to help you along the way too. You can also PM to talk about anything you want.

And just in case, here's this resource as well: National Suicide Prevention Lifeline (1-800-273-TALK).

[barman143]

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[zot1]

I have no idea what to do.

I have an offer. Which is great. But.. I'm almost 300k in debt, and it pays less than half of market in Palo Alto. I'm terrified that I'll never be able to pay my loan back, retire, or buy property. I'm terrified I'll never get a better paying job. I feel like my current job is a black mark on my resume, and my resume will be forever tainted with it. So even if I DO get a better job, I'll be in a worse financial position in the future (as I won't be able to even keep up with the interest on my loan).

I've honestly never considered suicide as seriously as I have right now. I just don't see a way out of the miserable mess my life has become.

that's amazing. there are little kids in Syria and Iraq who have been orphaned by bombs and guns yet who continue to survive yet you are here, thinking about killing yourself because you may never be able to own property one day. If you are the future of the legal profession, we all should off ourselves right now.

Your comment has no place here.

[Anonymous User]

2015 Grad, and I just got a job last week, and well my dream job has also been in the pipeline. Unemployment was demoralizing, but please do not give up. I went on 12 interviews before I landed my current gig.

Would you mind sharing any advice on effective job search and how to address this one year "employment gap"? You can PM me. Thanks!

Yes. For starters, look into government jobs. A lot of those jobs have interviews (PD for example) where they ask you "how you would react in a certain situation." In these types of interviews, you can use experiences from law school, and get away with being a year removed. I also took a bar exam in Feb., so I could use the whole "I was studying for the bar" thing. Finally look into JD advantage jobs. This is a good way to get experience.

[Rlabo]

I have no idea what to do.

I have an offer. Which is great. But.. I'm almost 300k in debt, and it pays less than half of market in Palo Alto. I'm terrified that I'll never be able to pay my loan back, retire, or buy property. I'm terrified I'll never get a better paying job. I feel like my current job is a black mark on my resume, and my resume will be forever tainted with it. So even if I DO get a better job, I'll be in a worse financial position in the future (as I won't be able to even keep up with the interest on my loan).

I've honestly never considered suicide as seriously as I have right now. I just don't see a way out of the miserable mess my life has become.

that's amazing. there are little kids in Syria and Iraq who have been orphaned by bombs and guns yet who continue to survive yet you are here, thinking about killing yourself because you may never be able to own property one day. If you are the future of the legal profession, we all should off ourselves right now.

Your comment has no place here.

Not to mention its a Strawman argument and a fallacy.

[EvelynS]

2015 Grad, and I just got a job last week, and well my dream job has also been in the pipeline. Unemployment was demoralizing, but please do not give up. I went on 12 interviews before I landed my current gig.

Would you mind sharing any advice on effective job search and how to address this one year "employment gap"? You can PM me. Thanks!

Yes. For starters, look into government jobs. A lot of those jobs have interviews (PD for example) where they ask you "how you would react in a certain situation." In these types of interviews, you can use experiences from law school, and get away with being a year removed. I also took a bar exam in Feb., so I could use the whole "I was studying for the bar" thing. Finally look into JD advantage jobs. This is a good way to get experience.

My primary interest is in transactional law, so it is hard to find a government job. Since both my transcript and internships during law school scream corporate law, I am not sure I can even get an interview at a PD office (I do not have a lot of PI stuff on my resume). Any thoughts on JD advantage jobs? I tried to look for them, but it seems like there are very few of those either.

[cjw564]

2015 Grad, and I just got a job last week, and well my dream job has also been in the pipeline. Unemployment was demoralizing, but please do not give up. I went on 12 interviews before I landed my current gig.

Would you mind sharing any advice on effective job search and how to address this one year "employment gap"? You can PM me. Thanks!

Yes. For starters, look into government jobs. A lot of those jobs have interviews (PD for example) where they ask you "how you would react in a certain situation." In these types of interviews, you can use experiences from law school, and get away with being a year removed. I also took a bar exam in Feb., so I could use the whole "I was studying for the bar" thing. Finally look into JD advantage jobs. This is a good way to get experience.

My primary interest is in transactional law, so it is hard to find a government job. Since both my transcript and internships during law school scream corporate law, I am not sure I can even get an interview at a PD office (I do not have a lot of PI stuff on my resume). Any thoughts on JD advantage jobs? I tried to look for them, but it seems like there are very few of those either.

Have you thought about a tax llm and then big 4? They really like transactional practice experience.

[EvelynS]

2015 Grad, and I just got a job last week, and well my dream job has also been in the pipeline. Unemployment was demoralizing, but please do not give up. I went on 12 interviews before I landed my current gig.

Would you mind sharing any advice on effective job search and how to address this one year "employment gap"? You can PM me. Thanks!

Yes. For starters, look into government jobs. A lot of those jobs have interviews (PD for example) where they ask you "how you would react in a certain situation." In these types of interviews, you can use experiences from law school, and get away with being a year removed. I also took a bar exam in Feb., so I could use the whole "I was studying for the bar" thing. Finally look into JD advantage jobs. This is a good way to get experience.

My primary interest is in transactional law, so it is hard to find a government job. Since both my transcript and internships during law school scream corporate law, I am not sure I can even get an interview at a PD office (I do not have a lot of PI stuff on my resume). Any thoughts on JD advantage jobs? I tried to look for them, but it seems like there are very few of those either.

Have you thought about a tax llm and then big 4? They really like transactional practice experience.

I am not sure I want to drop more money on another law degree without being able to get a job with the existing one.

[Anonymous User]

2015 Grad, and I just got a job last week, and well my dream job has also been in the pipeline. Unemployment was demoralizing, but please do not give up. I went on 12 interviews before I landed my current gig.

Would you mind sharing any advice on effective job search and how to address this one year "employment gap"? You can PM me. Thanks!

Yes. For starters, look into government jobs. A lot of those jobs have interviews (PD for example) where they ask you "how you would react in a certain situation." In these types of interviews, you can use experiences from law school, and get away with being a year removed. I also took a bar exam in Feb., so I could use the whole "I was studying for the bar" thing. Finally look into JD advantage jobs. This is a good way to get experience.

My primary interest is in transactional law, so it is hard to find a government job. Since both my transcript and internships during law school scream corporate law, I am not sure I can even get an interview at a PD office (I do not have a lot of PI stuff on my resume). Any thoughts on JD advantage jobs? I tried to look for them, but it seems like there are very few of those either.

Have you thought about a tax llm and then big 4? They really like transactional practice experience.

I am not sure I want to drop more money on another law degree without being able to get a job with the existing one.

Maybe look into a risk analyst position? Or money laundering analyst, I've seen postings for a lot of that type of work, and it seems like a transactional background would be useful. Pro Bono might also be a good thing to pick up. That way you can fill the void on your resume while you are looking, and you can gain some experience for government/public interest type stuff. Obviously a big office might ignore a transactional background, but smaller offices who are desperate for hires might not think to much of it.

[Anonymous User]

2015 Grad, and I just got a job last week, and well my dream job has also been in the pipeline. Unemployment was demoralizing, but please do not give up. I went on 12 interviews before I landed my current gig.

Would you mind sharing any advice on effective job search and how to address this one year "employment gap"? You can PM me. Thanks!

Yes. For starters, look into government jobs. A lot of those jobs have interviews (PD for example) where they ask you "how you would react in a certain situation." In these types of interviews, you can use experiences from law school, and get away with being a year removed. I also took a bar exam in Feb., so I could use the whole "I was studying for the bar" thing. Finally look into JD advantage jobs. This is a good way to get experience.

My primary interest is in transactional law, so it is hard to find a government job. Since both my transcript and internships during law school scream corporate law, I am not sure I can even get an interview at a PD office (I do not have a lot of PI stuff on my resume). Any thoughts on JD advantage jobs? I tried to look for them, but it seems like there are very few of those either.

I don't know if you have looked into the following options but I will just list them anyway

1. Consulting (difficult to get, I know)
2. Compliance
3. City budget offices or the IRS
4. Attorney friendly companies such as KPMG (they look for law students for positions such as tax associate or trade and customs associate)
5. Private wealth management/asset management
6. Pro bono or public interest work related to consumer bankruptcy/foreclosure or small businesses

[zot1]

2015 Grad, and I just got a job last week, and well my dream job has also been in the pipeline. Unemployment was demoralizing, but please do not give up. I went on 12 interviews before I landed my current gig.

Would you mind sharing any advice on effective job search and how to address this one year "employment gap"? You can PM me. Thanks!

Yes. For starters, look into government jobs. A lot of those jobs have interviews (PD for example) where they ask you "how you would react in a certain situation." In these types of interviews, you can use experiences from law school, and get away with being a year removed. I also took a bar exam in Feb., so I could use the whole "I was studying for the bar" thing. Finally look into JD advantage jobs. This is a good way to get experience.

My primary interest is in transactional law, so it is hard to find a government job. Since both my transcript and internships during law school scream corporate law, I am not sure I can even get an interview at a PD office (I do not have a lot of PI stuff on my resume). Any thoughts on JD advantage jobs? I tried to look for them, but it seems like there are very few of those either.

I don't know if you have looked into the following options but I will just list them anyway

1. Consulting (difficult to get, I know)
2. Compliance
3. City budget offices or the IRS
4. Attorney friendly companies such as KPMG (they look for law students for positions such as tax associate or trade and customs associate)
5. Private wealth management/asset management
6. Pro bono or public interest work related to consumer bankruptcy/foreclosure or small businesses

Contracting officer? Talent agent?

[Easy-E]

Think I've mentioned this, but it really bugs me when someone asks for anything beside a resume on a site that doesn't allow you to submit more than one file (or they didn't check the option). I feel like their just going to see that I didn't follow instructions on the posting, when I couldn't.

[Puttanesca]

Think I've mentioned this, but it really bugs me when someone asks for anything beside a resume on a site that doesn't allow you to submit more than one file (or they didn't check the option). I feel like their just going to see that I didn't follow instructions on the posting, when I couldn't.

Is there a POC listed on the job announcement you can contact to ask how to submit the other attachments? Or, and I would not normally recommend this but it might be the only way to submit all of your documents if there is no POC - put all of your documents into one attachment and upload them.

[Anonymous User]

Think I've mentioned this, but it really bugs me when someone asks for anything beside a resume on a site that doesn't allow you to submit more than one file (or they didn't check the option). I feel like their just going to see that I didn't follow instructions on the posting, when I couldn't.

Is there a POC listed on the job announcement you can contact to ask how to submit the other attachments? Or, and I would not normally recommend this but it might be the only way to submit all of your documents if there is no POC - put all of your documents into one attachment and upload them.

For some jobs, I could go to the firm site and find a contact, assuming a firm name is posted, but I figure if they posted on Indeed, they want the apps through Indeed. I considered the latter, but just didn't seem right to me. I figure if they follow-up I can just provide the other stuff or bring it with me.

Edit: accidental anon

[dusters]

As a 3L at a T14 (5-10 range) who is slightly above median and had no luck at 2L OCI (2 callbacks, no offers), what is my best bet? I'm working for a really cool PI firm this summer, but I'd like to do biglaw in the midwest. I'm currently looking at clerkships. How do I even get interviews with firms as a 3L? I know my school has a 3L OCI but it is really tiny. OCP hasn't been very helpful.

[Rlabo]

As a 3L at a T14 (5-10 range) who is slightly above median and had no luck at 2L OCI (2 callbacks, no offers), what is my best bet? I'm working for a really cool PI firm this summer, but I'd like to do biglaw in the midwest. I'm currently looking at clerkships. How do I even get interviews with firms as a 3L? I know my school has a 3L OCI but it is really tiny. OCP hasn't been very helpful.

Mass mail, and do it early, (~july), and, even better, if you have freind's who are at firms, ask them to pass along your materials to recruiting. Also, you need to commit to a practice area because most firms are typically looking to fill a spot in a specific group. If you can get a federal clerkship though, thats probably best, as that's essentially hitting the reset button, so i would work on that as well.

[Lincoln]

As a 3L at a T14 (5-10 range) who is slightly above median and had no luck at 2L OCI (2 callbacks, no offers), what is my best bet? I'm working for a really cool PI firm this summer, but I'd like to do biglaw in the midwest. I'm currently looking at clerkships. How do I even get interviews with firms as a 3L? I know my school has a 3L OCI but it is really tiny. OCP hasn't been very helpful.

Don't take this the wrong way -- I mean to be helpful -- but I think you need to work on your interviewing skills. While not getting any offers can certainly happen to anyone, it seems strange that you'd only have two CBs with your stats at a T14. Try to do alumni interviews and ask for honest feedback.

To answer your questions:
(1) You need to mass mail every big office in the midwest and hope that someone picks you up. It happens all the time.
(2) Reach out to alums and classmates who are at firms or clerking and ask if they'd meet with you or pass on your application (depending on your pre-existing relationship with them). There are good guides on here for networking.

Good luck!

[Easy-E]

Trying to grab a last minute clerkship. Postings ask for cover letter, resume and transcript. My transcript is not solid, but I have some solid experience, and I think I look much better when I can include a writing sample. Bad idea to go beyond what the posting calls for?

[bwh8813]

Don't know if this will help, but if anyone from '15 is already bar admitted and looking for IP, I just got this from the USPTO so keep your eyes out:

Trademark Examining Attorney Announcement

The USPTO – Trademarks Office will be posting a job vacancy announcement on USAJobs for multiple Trademark Examining Attorney (GS 11) positions from Monday, June 27, 2016, until Wednesday, July 06, 2016. To be eligible to apply, all applicants must be US citizens and must have a State Bar membership.

[BVest]

Trying to grab a last minute clerkship. Postings ask for cover letter, resume and transcript. My transcript is not solid, but I have some solid experience, and I think I look much better when I can include a writing sample. Bad idea to go beyond what the posting calls for?

IMO, including a writing sample for a clerkship, even when not solicited, is fine.