The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[beach_terror]

Rising 3Ls: the absolute best shot you have of getting out of the vale is working PT at a firm during the school year. Drop classes, move your schedule so you have multiple days free, and work another PT firm gig if you can (I worked at two firms during 3L). Target mid sized shops (8-30/40) that have added a JD or two since the crash. Get in and work your ass off. Work weekends. Never stop asking to do more work for them. Eventually you'll become an important part of the team, and the offer will hopefully follow. I did the above and I'm not smarter or better-equipped to get out of the Vale than any of you are, and it worked for me, so get after it. You don't want to be resume 300 out of 600 for an opening during 3L/after you graduate.

Of my friends who did the above, we're at like 80% employment rate (small sample, but whatever) from a shitty T2 school. All the ones who sunk time into meaningless stuff (journal e-board positions, fed externships, etc.) are scrambling without much out there.

[a male human]

Journal board is exactly what I did, and I was a damn good EAE. Got my article accepted by a tier-1 journal, too. Didn't help my job search at all.

If I had to redo 3L, I would have worked part time. I didn't because I was trying to raise my grades. I think grades don't matter anymore if you struck out at OCI (confirm/deny?).

[beach_terror]

Journal board is exactly what I did, and I was a damn good EAE. Got my article accepted by a tier-1 journal, too. Didn't help my job search at all.

If I had to redo 3L, I would have worked part time. I didn't because I was trying to raise my grades. I think grades don't matter anymore if you struck out at OCI (confirm/deny?).

They helped me get my two PT jobs since I was sort of overqualified having gone through OCI and not getting anything, whereas a lot of the other interviewees weren't in my grades ballpark. It'll depend on the firm though. Both of my jobs were advertised on symplicity, so I'm sure they got more apps than random solicits for PT work.

[Void]

Journal board is exactly what I did, and I was a damn good EAE. Got my article accepted by a tier-1 journal, too.

If I had to redo 3L, I would have worked part time. I didn't because I was trying to raise my grades. I think grades don't matter anymore if you struck out at OCI (confirm/deny?).

I can't say what the general rule is but I ended up with good grades (top 15%) and know for a fact that it didnt matter to the employer who finally gave me an offer- it came down to my experience and demonstrated commitment to the field. (I was also on a semi-relevant secondary journal e-board and also worked 20 hrs/week as a law clerk at a semi-related job... I guess it's hard to say generally what matters and what doesn't)

[chrisbru]

Legit status from a classmate today (edited slightly for anonymnity):

"In the past two weeks, I've managed to acquire: 1) a job offer at my summer firm, Biglaw and Biglaw in non-Chicago/NY/DC bigish city, 2) a clerkship on the MidwestState Supreme Court, and 3) best of all, an adorable and healthy nephew. I really just can't stop smiling."

I know s/he wasn't being malicious, but fuuuuuuuuuuuck what a dick thing to do.

Not to mention my good good friend REALLY wanted the clerkship that this person ended up snagging. You already had a biglaw job offer, graciously accept and let the rest of us fight it out for fucks sake.

[rad lulz]

Journal board is exactly what I did, and I was a damn good EAE. Got my article accepted by a tier-1 journal, too. Didn't help my job search at all.

If I had to redo 3L, I would have worked part time. I didn't because I was trying to raise my grades. I think grades don't matter anymore if you struck out at OCI (confirm/deny?).

I wouldn't say they "don't matter," but for some employers they will be not that important.

[Bikeflip]

Gubmint jerb says entry level and the specialized jerb description makes it sound like entry level. However, the specialized position says 3 yrs experience.

Fuck it. Applying anyways.

[Anonymous User]

Have a 2nd/final interview scheduled for one exciting, solid position and had a good first interview for another potentially interesting position this week, and have locked in (mind-numbing) full-time work at $20/hr for at least through October and likely after that.

Still get night terrors about bar results/loans/budgeting/the job search.

The other thing is that the 2 interviews I've had were for wildly different areas of law/types of employers and I honestly can't tell which one I'd be more into if salary/etc. were equal. I think I'm so desensitized by this job search I'm not even sure what I'm genuinely interested in.

Trying to focus on the positives and enjoy down time, but it's rough.

If you don't mind, can you elaborate on how you got those interviews? Is the $20 one doc review?

School job board and Craigslist, zero contact/connections prior to applying.

Re: Networking, I've made half-assed efforts at it and recently a contact called me with a lead on a job and told me he sent my resume along. Hadn't heard from the contact in a few months so I tried to take it as a sign from the universe that networking can work in ways that may not be immediately visible. It felt really good to know someone was out there thinking about my job search, which I hadn't even realized. But a) this was a contact who knew my work from an internship, not a random coffee date and b) the job was a reach qualifications wise (requiring experience) and in a city far away from where I sort of need to be. So yes, I guess you should/have to network because who knows what could happen. But at my school's "Here's how I found post-grad work" panel everyone who spoke seemed to have found jobs through random job postings or people they actually knew well through an internship/prior work experience. I am an introvert and hate networking so if I were doing this over again would focus my networking efforts on connections made through jobs/internships and family/friends that are already real connections because that's all I can really stand to make myself do. Random coffee dates/informational interviews have done nothing for me and just felt awkward.

OTOH I think networking is a good way to avoid feeling isolated/like a leper and actually remind yourself you're joining a profession despite the suckiness of the job search. If you want to do x with your legal career but manage to land job in area y (and take the job b/c you need to pay the bills), it will be good to know people in area x and keep up with them/find ways back into field x in the future. That's the long view. This profession is built on connections and isolating yourself even more through the job search helps nothing. Goes for keeping up with gainfully employed friends as well. This is advice I haven't managed to follow myself but appreciate the truth of three/four months after graduation.

[Cyne]

I think I am going to limit my newsfeed right now. I do not need this kind of shit popping up.

[BlueLotus]

This. One of my employed "friends" from law school was busting my balls on FB about how I was still unemployed (even though I am not- he just thinks I am because guess what? I don't post that shit on facebook because I know that like 90% of my classmates are still jobless). Fuck that guy.

I can't even comprehend what kind of person would do that to another human. What would motivate that, other than pure sociopathy?

He said "I feel for you, but I gotta say it must be nice to have all that free time." He's a preppy Vineyard Vines-wearing cuntface from fucking Cape Cod with a permagrin and a "I'm hip because I talk to the help" kind of vibe.

How do you maintain your composure amidst such douchebaggery?

[Anonymous User]

Have a callback interview with a 30ish person litigation boutique in a tertiary market. Small firm, regional clients, but they pay what appears to be "market" for that area. Made the connection through a friend. I never imagined myself living in a place like this, but being part of this thread is making me appreciate how lucky I am to have the opportunity. My credentials would have given me interviews at most firms in the country last year, but it's amazing how one year and a no-offer make such a difference.

[rad lulz]

Have a callback interview with a 30ish person litigation boutique in a tertiary market. Small firm, regional clients, but they pay what appears to be "market" for that area. Made the connection through a friend. I never imagined myself living in a place like this, but being part of this thread is making me appreciate how lucky I am to have the opportunity. My credentials would have given me interviews at most firms in the country last year, but it's amazing how one year and a no-offer make such a difference.

I know that feel bro, but congrats on the interview. It's good that you're getting some movement. Crush it.

[TheBeard]

Rising 3Ls: the absolute best shot you have of getting out of the vale is working PT at a firm during the school year. Drop classes, move your schedule so you have multiple days free, and work another PT firm gig if you can (I worked at two firms during 3L). Target mid sized shops (8-30/40) that have added a JD or two since the crash. Get in and work your ass off. Work weekends. Never stop asking to do more work for them. Eventually you'll become an important part of the team, and the offer will hopefully follow. I did the above and I'm not smarter or better-equipped to get out of the Vale than any of you are, and it worked for me, so get after it. You don't want to be resume 300 out of 600 for an opening during 3L/after you graduate.

Of my friends who did the above, we're at like 80% employment rate (small sample, but whatever) from a shitty T2 school. All the ones who sunk time into meaningless stuff (journal e-board positions, fed externships, etc.) are scrambling without much out there.

Take beach's advice, pick up a pt clerk gig now. I'm one of a lucky few who didn't do this but still managed to land a decent gig. I am, however, an exception at my firm since everyone else who was hired clerked as 3Ls. Also, stay persistent. Follow up on every resume you forward until you hear a decision. I applied for my gig in late July and got my offer in April of the following year. I never stopped insisting, and it seems like it paid off.

[Void]

This. One of my employed "friends" from law school was busting my balls on FB about how I was still unemployed (even though I am not- he just thinks I am because guess what? I don't post that shit on facebook because I know that like 90% of my classmates are still jobless). Fuck that guy.

I can't even comprehend what kind of person would do that to another human. What would motivate that, other than pure sociopathy?

He said "I feel for you, but I gotta say it must be nice to have all that free time." He's a preppy Vineyard Vines-wearing cuntface from fucking Cape Cod with a permagrin and a "I'm hip because I talk to the help" kind of vibe.

How do you maintain your composure amidst such douchebaggery?

I graduated (and I don't hang out at yacht clubs) so I never see this dood in real life. Otherwise composure maintenance would be tough.

[lukertin]

Why is he on your friends list?

[Hufflepuffer]

Legit status from a classmate today (edited slightly for anonymnity):

"In the past two weeks, I've managed to acquire: 1) a job offer at my summer firm, Biglaw and Biglaw in non-Chicago/NY/DC bigish city, 2) a clerkship on the MidwestState Supreme Court, and 3) best of all, an adorable and healthy nephew. I really just can't stop smiling."

I know s/he wasn't being malicious, but fuuuuuuuuuuuck what a dick thing to do.

Not to mention my good good friend REALLY wanted the clerkship that this person ended up snagging. You already had a biglaw job offer, graciously accept and let the rest of us fight it out for fucks sake.

Gahhh, what a jerk. I refuse to believe people post status updates like that without trying to brag

Law school seems to attract the worst types imaginable. Or maybe it draws it out of us?

To the unemployed: don't let your lack of a legal job define you as a human being. You're worth more than that.

[Anonymous User]

Have a callback interview with a 30ish person litigation boutique in a tertiary market. Small firm, regional clients, but they pay what appears to be "market" for that area. Made the connection through a friend. I never imagined myself living in a place like this, but being part of this thread is making me appreciate how lucky I am to have the opportunity. My credentials would have given me interviews at most firms in the country last year, but it's amazing how one year and a no-offer make such a difference.

I ended up at a firm like this, and it could definitely be worse. Congrats dude. Look at it this way, even though the market rate is lower in these kinds of cities, you can rent a palace for $900.

[adonai]

Legit status from a classmate today (edited slightly for anonymnity):

"In the past two weeks, I've managed to acquire: 1) a job offer at my summer firm, Biglaw and Biglaw in non-Chicago/NY/DC bigish city, 2) a clerkship on the MidwestState Supreme Court, and 3) best of all, an adorable and healthy nephew. I really just can't stop smiling."

I know s/he wasn't being malicious, but fuuuuuuuuuuuck what a dick thing to do.

Not to mention my good good friend REALLY wanted the clerkship that this person ended up snagging. You already had a biglaw job offer, graciously accept and let the rest of us fight it out for fucks sake.

Gahhh, what a jerk. I refuse to believe people post status updates like that without trying to brag

Law school seems to attract the worst types imaginable. Or maybe it draws it out of us?

To the unemployed: don't let your lack of a legal job define you as a human being. You're worth more than that.

The worst part about status updates like that is that there are people from school who like the status and comment on it zomg congrats fueling the douchebaggery and affirming the fact that its okay to be senseless. Been tempted on many occasions to say something, but people like those would just see us as jealous and bitter. We want to say something but can't so we can look half way "human"...that is why I'm grateful for the Vale...

Btw, that fb status kind of makes me feel embarrassed for that person. It just sounds so cheesy.

[Gorki]

I go to a school where biglaw is the exception and not the rule, so the funny thing is people will BOAST their volunteer/unpaid gov't jerbs whilst the 10 people I know w/big law jobs have not even placed it on their FB in any meaningful way.

/shrug

[Anonymous User]

Have a callback interview with a 30ish person litigation boutique in a tertiary market. Small firm, regional clients, but they pay what appears to be "market" for that area. Made the connection through a friend. I never imagined myself living in a place like this, but being part of this thread is making me appreciate how lucky I am to have the opportunity. My credentials would have given me interviews at most firms in the country last year, but it's amazing how one year and a no-offer make such a difference.

I know that feel bro, but congrats on the interview. It's good that you're getting some movement. Crush it.

Thanks, dude. They're flying my wife in too so we can check out the city together, so I think they're pretty serious. Gonna do my best.

I ended up at a firm like this, and it could definitely be worse. Congrats dude. Look at it this way, even though the market rate is lower in these kinds of cities, you can rent a palace for $900.

Hey, thanks for sharing your experience. Are you happy? Have you tried to or thought about lateraling? The way I look at it is that partnership prospects may be better? Trying to look on the bright side.

[Void]

Why is he on your friends list?

Good question, Broseph.

[Anonymous User]

How to get over the shame of my circumstances? I so dread facing my classmates on Monday and hearing all their excited chatter about jerbs, interviews, callbacks, grades, journal, etc. Fuck that shit. I'm fine with volunteering my ass off, putting my nose to the grindstone w/r/t the job search, and being a total hermit at school this year. I never had really close friends here to begin with, anyway. Even blocked my facebook so I could avoid pricks like the d00d Void described. (I go to BU/BC, so I'd probably run into more of those gloating, self-absorbed Cape Cod types )

I know NYstate and others remind the Valers that our self-worth isn't tied to whether we have a job lined up, our rank/grades, etc. but truly believing that deep in your heart is easier said than done...thank God for this thread, tho. Otherwise I would feel so alone. I mean, I do have my family's support and I love and appreciate them dearly, but they're typical boomers who have no idea about today's legal job market.

[okinawa]

How to get over the shame of my circumstances? I so dread facing my classmates on Monday and hearing all their excited chatter about jerbs, interviews, callbacks, grades, journal, etc. Fuck that shit. I'm fine with volunteering my ass off, putting my nose to the grindstone w/r/t the job search, and being a total hermit at school this year. I never had really close friends here to begin with, anyway. Even blocked my facebook so I could avoid pricks like the d00d Void described. (I go to BU/BC, so I'd probably run into more of those gloating, self-absorbed Cape Cod types )

I know NYstate and others remind the Valers that our self-worth isn't tied to whether we have a job lined up, our rank/grades, etc. but truly believing that deep in your heart is easier said than done...thank God for this thread, tho. Otherwise I would feel so alone. I mean, I do have my family's support and I love and appreciate them dearly, but they're typical boomers who have no idea about today's legal job market.

Were you no-offered? My job search lasted well into my 3L year and the most stressful part was how every single person at my school was planning their luxury apartment and international bar trips based on dat $160k, while I was really hoping to be employed at all. Everyone was drinking constantly, spending so much money in anticipation of their biglaw job, and I was trying to save money to pay for my own bar prep.

My best suggestion is a) don't talk about it except with other people looking for work, b) try to make concrete goals so you don't spiral into inaction. I made a spreadsheet with all the applications/deadlines I needed to complete and made sure to do at least 1 a day.

[Anonymous User]

How to get over the shame of my circumstances? I so dread facing my classmates on Monday and hearing all their excited chatter about jerbs, interviews, callbacks, grades, journal, etc. Fuck that shit. I'm fine with volunteering my ass off, putting my nose to the grindstone w/r/t the job search, and being a total hermit at school this year. I never had really close friends here to begin with, anyway. Even blocked my facebook so I could avoid pricks like the d00d Void described. (I go to BU/BC, so I'd probably run into more of those gloating, self-absorbed Cape Cod types )

I know NYstate and others remind the Valers that our self-worth isn't tied to whether we have a job lined up, our rank/grades, etc. but truly believing that deep in your heart is easier said than done...thank God for this thread, tho. Otherwise I would feel so alone. I mean, I do have my family's support and I love and appreciate them dearly, but they're typical boomers who have no idea about today's legal job market.

Were you no-offered? My job search lasted well into my 3L year and the most stressful part was how every single person at my school was planning their luxury apartment and international bar trips based on dat $160k, while I was really hoping to be employed at all. Everyone was drinking constantly, spending so much money in anticipation of their biglaw job, and I was trying to save money to pay for my own bar prep.

My best suggestion is a) don't talk about it except with other people looking for work, b) try to make concrete goals so you don't spiral into inaction. I made a spreadsheet with all the applications/deadlines I needed to complete and made sure to do at least 1 a day.

Not no-offered, just worked for a public interest employer last summer that, because of budget cuts/sequester etc. cannot possibly hire all of their interns for FTLT positions.

[rad lulz]

Have a callback interview with a 30ish person litigation boutique in a tertiary market. Small firm, regional clients, but they pay what appears to be "market" for that area. Made the connection through a friend. I never imagined myself living in a place like this, but being part of this thread is making me appreciate how lucky I am to have the opportunity. My credentials would have given me interviews at most firms in the country last year, but it's amazing how one year and a no-offer make such a difference.

I know that feel bro, but congrats on the interview. It's good that you're getting some movement. Crush it.

Thanks, dude. They're flying my wife in too so we can check out the city together, so I think they're pretty serious. Gonna do my best.

I ended up at a firm like this, and it could definitely be worse. Congrats dude. Look at it this way, even though the market rate is lower in these kinds of cities, you can rent a palace for $900.

Hey, thanks for sharing your experience. Are you happy? Have you tried to or thought about lateraling? The way I look at it is that partnership prospects may be better? Trying to look on the bright side.

Yeah they sound serious. Good luck man