The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Bla Bla Bla Blah

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bla Bla Bla Blah » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My desperation and need for money has progressed so much, that I decided to take a part time customer assistant job at Lowe's. I start this weekend. 30 yo old dude assisting customers alongside 18 year old kids...
Man, there is probably very few people on this planet as pathetic as me right now. I have truly failed at life. :(


Why are you looking down at 18 year-olds? Some of them might be harder working than you and might actually do a better job with customers.

You want to not be "pathetic"? Go to work this weekend, stop being weird, shutup, and do your job like every other real adult in this world (like your 18 year old coworkers) that goes to work for a paycheck.


I feel like a loser.


So accept your situation, go to work, work hard, and start solving your situation. Feeling like a loser doesn't solve your problems and will only create a negative vibe with people you interact with at work. Use that negative energy instead into putting in good work this weekend.

You're no more special than the 18 year olds you work with. Just because you're older doesn't make you better. There are 18/19 year old interns at tech companies that bring in $70,000 a semester.

Nobody cares about your educational background just like nobody wants to hear about whining coworker Andy and has 2 Master's degrees. Just go into work and work hard.


I know. I'm just scared this is what I will be doing for the rest of my life, just minimum wage jobs, and no way to pay back my debt.


Not exactly about work ethic. More about how you are reaching out for jobs. In your shoes, for sure see if you can place into office positions through some kind of temp agency. Even if it's outside of legal, your degree will be more valuable in an admin/office setting than at Lowes (where workers are treated as little more than human chattel).

A previous poster discussed how this approach was able to work... through a legal temp agency. Look into it. Much better than pointlessly shooting resumes out into Indeed cyber space (because there is a rep that the employers will talk to about who you are, i.e., a human connection that works in your favor), and those agencies have all the incentive in the world to get you back into an office environment where your degree actually means something (read: they get a cut, and its an incentive based structure for them to place you).

Work Lowe's for a bit if you need the money, and start reaching out to temp agencies on the side. No shame in that game. I had to work my way back in because I took a job with a friend's company while I was going through all my divorce/custody stuff that was way way way off the beaten path for someone with my degree. But it was good for me since it was mindless (I had enough problems of my own, didn't want to think for work anymore), and I was able to drive ATVs around in the desert as part of the job description.

There is a comeback path if you just start looking for an opening. I was so past caring about what people thought about me that I was shameless by the time I came back, and you know what?! That's been really good for me in the courtroom.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
judgepayne wrote:I need to vent. I’ve read some worse horror stories on here and mine might seem tame in comparison, but it has been a nightmare for me.

Transferred to M after top 5% at regional T2%. I was so excited about this accomplishment. Took the risk and gave up the full-ride. Struck out everywhere. Been applying ever since. 3L about to graduate. Go back to my parents every weekend with a dead look on my face and do my best not to bask in the negativity around them. Everyone I come into contact with says I have such a promising future and that my resume will be at the top. Yea... hasn’t worked out that way.



...

In desperation, I started to do something I am now absolutely recommending. I started researching firms that I wanted that had partners who were alumni at my school. Then I emailed them and asked them how the firm was, how life was in that city, for their stories. It didn't work a lot of the time, but it worked. I got an interview from a V10 firm based on a recommendation from the partner I connected with. And I got a job from that interview. In fact, I ended up with three offers from incredible firms by doing the same thing. And because the partners at these firms and I connected so well, I was able to recommend friends of mine that were struggling for the offers that I did not take, as well as getting a 3L friend into the temporary clerkship. Pay it forward! Yo, my people coming up!

....



Hey, glad it worked out for you. I'm a 3L at a lower T14 in a similar situation, but only slightly above median. I've also been reaching out to partners in a specialized practice that has been the focus of most of my experiences. One thing I struggle with is whether I should reach out to alumn partners in that specialized practice or a non-alumn partner in that practice who also happens to be a hiring partner? Did you only focus on alumn partners? Thanks again for your posting. It's inspiring.



My advice is to reach out to partners generally, but obviously finding common ground will help make those conversations flow more easily. People often say networking is the best way to get a job, but a lot of people don't explain how to approach it. Just go for it, send an email to a partner that you can relate to. Maybe you went to the same undergrad or had the same major or the same lawschool. maybe you just lived in similar cities. find a way to connect and let the rest happen on its own.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby thetearsarereal » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:59 pm

Any openings within a 30 minute drive from Philly?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lsatsohard » Wed May 02, 2018 6:42 pm

Out the vale. I had my interview two weeks ago at a mid-size firm, and I was beginning lose all hopes until I got the offer yesterday. Not exactly what I had in mind, but anything will do. I'm just grateful.

As to everyone else struggling out there, don't let the negativity on this forum discourage you from continuing to try. The most helpful advice (perhaps the only one) on this page is, do not make the mistake of holding yourself out just because you think you deserve better opportunities or whatever. Everyone has to start somewhere, and that somewhere might not necessarily be what you always dreamed of, but honestly somewhere is better than nowhere. Good luck to you guys and thanks to everyone that shared this difficult journey with me.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lurker74 » Thu May 17, 2018 3:25 pm

Hey guys!

As my user name suggests, I’m a long time lurker and now a first time poster.

My friend was offered a job, but wanted me to find out what you guys think. He has just been offered a position with a small law firm that told him that he could learn a ton about the area of law that he’s interested in.

The issue is that they want him to pay them $300/month to work there. The partners feel that he’s going to learn a lot and they are going to give a lot of their time to him.

It seems that the firm isn’t doing great and could really use the $300/month. Should he do it? I know the legal market isn’t that great and he really wants to learn this practice area.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Npret » Thu May 17, 2018 8:09 pm

Lurker74 wrote:Hey guys!

As my user name suggests, I’m a long time lurker and now a first time poster.

My friend was offered a job, but wanted me to find out what you guys think. He has just been offered a position with a small law firm that told him that he could learn a ton about the area of law that he’s interested in.

The issue is that they want him to pay them $300/month to work there. The partners feel that he’s going to learn a lot and they are going to give a lot of their time to him.

It seems that the firm isn’t doing great and could really use the $300/month. Should he do it? I know the legal market isn’t that great and he really wants to learn this practice area.

He wants to work as a lawyer for $300 a month? No, he shouldn’t do that.

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BasilHallward

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BasilHallward » Thu May 17, 2018 8:18 pm

Lurker74 wrote:Hey guys!

As my user name suggests, I’m a long time lurker and now a first time poster.

My friend was offered a job, but wanted me to find out what you guys think. He has just been offered a position with a small law firm that told him that he could learn a ton about the area of law that he’s interested in.

The issue is that they want him to pay them $300/month to work there. The partners feel that he’s going to learn a lot and they are going to give a lot of their time to him.

It seems that the firm isn’t doing great and could really use the $300/month. Should he do it? I know the legal market isn’t that great and he really wants to learn this practice area.


Yeah, this is hilarious. Your friend doesn't have to eat?? Wow. This is some shady stuff.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lurker74 » Thu May 17, 2018 8:53 pm

He clarified that they originally wanted $500/month, but he got them down to $300/month.

nixy

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby nixy » Thu May 17, 2018 9:57 pm

That can’t be a serious post. Paying others to work there isn’t actually a job, it’s being exploited.

The only possible exception I could think of is if this isn’t the US and lawyers have to article somewhere before getting admitted or the like. Like paying to be an apprentice, I guess.

Otherwise your friend should run the fuck away as fast as possible.

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anon sequitur

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby anon sequitur » Thu May 17, 2018 11:04 pm

Oh that second step was too much too soon, you gotta slow-play these things a little. Good first effort though.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lurker74 » Thu May 17, 2018 11:43 pm

I shared all your responses. He wants to know if it makes a difference if he’s interested in an extremely narrow practice area (something like space law) and this firm practices within that area.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Npret » Fri May 18, 2018 5:29 am

Lurker74 wrote:I shared all your responses. He wants to know if it makes a difference if he’s interested in an extremely narrow practice area (something like space law) and this firm practices within that area.

Yeah it’s funny to troll a thread about unemployment. You’re a genius.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby RCSOB657 » Fri May 18, 2018 8:27 am

Is this rent for office space, secretarial staff, and the ability to get flow over cases?

If not, no.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lurker74 » Fri May 18, 2018 10:51 am

For the first year, he would get 45% of any business that he brings in. However, if he does good work, then it’ll go up to 50% in year 2.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby RCSOB657 » Fri May 18, 2018 11:37 am

I wouldn't do that. Not unless the other guy is also throwing in business overflow.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Npret » Fri May 18, 2018 3:14 pm

Lurker74 wrote:For the first year, he would get 45% of any business that he brings in. However, if he does good work, then it’ll go up to 50% in year 2.

How will he bring in business?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lurker74 » Fri May 18, 2018 4:49 pm

He’s not really sure. He was thinking of cold calling alumni and see if they know anyone who needs his services. That’s what the career services office told him to do.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby judgepayne » Fri May 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Bla Bla Bla Blah wrote:
judgepayne wrote:
I've been in your shoes (and probably even worse). I'm doing just fine now... 6 figure working for a firm that I like fine. I could have never predicted how I would have landed my opportunities to finally make it. But I can tell you that my chin was already up when the opportunities came (even though there are plenty of assholes [some right here on TLS] who would have tried to make me feel foolish for having pride in the positions I took to get to where I am today.) Most people in the real world, though, are just happy to help a good, hardworking, and smart person get back into the legal saddle if they can. Fact is, I'm doing better than most of the people that would have tried to keep my chin down right now... and most importantly, I am self-satisfied with where I'm at. Keep your chin up and seize your opportunities my friend! You've just got to keep a good frame of mind while you're going through the struggle!

P.S. It's never weak and childish to open up and share something like this. I think it takes guts and courage, considering that many people like to kick when others are down... and when they are down is when it hurts the most. Takes guts to open yourself up like that my friend. Don't ever stop doing it. There are people out there who will understand without judgment and help a brotha out. Let the negative energy just slide right off your back... because it's always more about them than it is about you.


Thanks for this. I had to take a break from TLS for a while, but this was nice to come back to, and I wasn't expecting it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 22, 2018 6:31 pm

ladybug1989 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:MADE IT OUT OF THE VALE!!!

Posted here a few months ago, was in a pretty dark place after getting no-offer'd at a mid size firm from the summer, wasnt getting much interviews -
was heavily drinking and feeling bad for myself and everything seemed dead. Just got an offer for my dream market- NYC- making much more than I made last summer- doing something really interesting to me. THERE IS HOPE!!!!!! LOVE YOU ALL


Congrats!! Could you PM me so I can ask about your strategies, etc?



Hey Ladybug, how do I go about reaching u, if u still want advice

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ladybug1989 » Wed May 23, 2018 2:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ladybug1989 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:MADE IT OUT OF THE VALE!!!

Posted here a few months ago, was in a pretty dark place after getting no-offer'd at a mid size firm from the summer, wasnt getting much interviews -
was heavily drinking and feeling bad for myself and everything seemed dead. Just got an offer for my dream market- NYC- making much more than I made last summer- doing something really interesting to me. THERE IS HOPE!!!!!! LOVE YOU ALL


Congrats!! Could you PM me so I can ask about your strategies, etc?



Hey Ladybug, how do I go about reaching u, if u still want advice


I would appreciate it. Can you email me at ladybug.1989@outlook.com

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 25, 2018 3:42 pm

Anyone have a job but still feel like they aren’t quite out of the vale yet?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:05 am

I graduated in 2014 and have logged in to this forum every year since around this time. In 2014 it was because I was in the Vale (like really f-ing deep in the Vale), and every year thereafter to share how I got out and to give, hopefully, some semblance of hope.

I went to a T-10 and had median grades after 1L. I've always been a decent writer and was lucky enough to write on to the law review, but still struck out at OCI and ended up working at a truly awful mom and pop in-house gig my 2L summer. I worked my ass off my 2L and 3L year and ended up in the top 1/3 of my class--not great, but not terrible either. I applied for job after job my 3L year and got nothing. Crickets. Graduation was particularly tough because all my friends who had BigLaw jobs lined up were whooping it up like there was no tomorrow, and I was sheeeeting my pants about school loans and having to move home. I continued to apply for jobs while studying for the July bar (and even had a few interviews), but still nothing.

A few weeks after the bar, Career Services sent an email blast asking for resumes for a transactional position in NYC--but no details beyond that. I've always been a west coast kid, and wanted to do litigation, but thought "what the hell" and sent my resume. One or two days after sending out my resume an HR person from the firm called and asked if I'd be willing set out some time for a phone screener later that day. Turns out the firm was a V10 and were looking for a new M&A associate. The phone screen went well and they flew me out to NYC for a half-day of interviews. My final interviewer (the hiring partner) asked if I had any dinner plans, and I lied and said no. The partner invited me to dinner with two of the associates who'd interviewed me earlier, and near the end of the dinner the partner surreptitiously had our waiter bring a bottle of champagne. Once glasses were poured, the partner offered a quick toast "here's to you joining the firm!". I was floored, and almost wept right then and there.

After being insecure about my future for the last three years I'd finally made it out of the vale, and at a V10. Sure, it wasn't litigation like I wanted (which, in retrospect, thank god!) and not in my preferred market. The partners at the firm were great, and so were the associates--but after three years I knew that firm life was not for me. A few months ago after bonuses were handed out I started looking for in-house jobs. I start in the Bay Area office of a Seattle tech giant in a month.

The moral of the story is, at least what worked for me, be flexible. The worst thing you can do is to get too down, which isn't to say there won't be bouts of depression. I spent three or four days in bed after getting rejected post-interview from a firm I applied to while studying for the bar. There are a lot of genuinely helpful people on this board, listen to them. There is also a vocal minority of trolls here, block them out. They're just miserable people who don't have anything better to do than to spread that around everywhere they go. Don't lose sight of your worth, or your dreams. Keep applying, I'm certain if you keep trying everything will work out.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:I graduated in 2014 and have logged in to this forum every year since around this time. In 2014 it was because I was in the Vale (like really f-ing deep in the Vale), and every year thereafter to share how I got out and to give, hopefully, some semblance of hope.

I went to a T-10 and had median grades after 1L. I've always been a decent writer and was lucky enough to write on to the law review, but still struck out at OCI and ended up working at a truly awful mom and pop in-house gig my 2L summer. I worked my ass off my 2L and 3L year and ended up in the top 1/3 of my class--not great, but not terrible either. I applied for job after job my 3L year and got nothing. Crickets. Graduation was particularly tough because all my friends who had BigLaw jobs lined up were whooping it up like there was no tomorrow, and I was sheeeeting my pants about school loans and having to move home. I continued to apply for jobs while studying for the July bar (and even had a few interviews), but still nothing.

A few weeks after the bar, Career Services sent an email blast asking for resumes for a transactional position in NYC--but no details beyond that. I've always been a west coast kid, and wanted to do litigation, but thought "what the hell" and sent my resume. One or two days after sending out my resume an HR person from the firm called and asked if I'd be willing set out some time for a phone screener later that day. Turns out the firm was a V10 and were looking for a new M&A associate. The phone screen went well and they flew me out to NYC for a half-day of interviews. My final interviewer (the hiring partner) asked if I had any dinner plans, and I lied and said no. The partner invited me to dinner with two of the associates who'd interviewed me earlier, and near the end of the dinner the partner surreptitiously had our waiter bring a bottle of champagne. Once glasses were poured, the partner offered a quick toast "here's to you joining the firm!". I was floored, and almost wept right then and there.

After being insecure about my future for the last three years I'd finally made it out of the vale, and at a V10. Sure, it wasn't litigation like I wanted (which, in retrospect, thank god!) and not in my preferred market. The partners at the firm were great, and so were the associates--but after three years I knew that firm life was not for me. A few months ago after bonuses were handed out I started looking for in-house jobs. I start in the Bay Area office of a Seattle tech giant in a month.

The moral of the story is, at least what worked for me, be flexible. The worst thing you can do is to get too down, which isn't to say there won't be bouts of depression. I spent three or four days in bed after getting rejected post-interview from a firm I applied to while studying for the bar. There are a lot of genuinely helpful people on this board, listen to them. There is also a vocal minority of trolls here, block them out. They're just miserable people who don't have anything better to do than to spread that around everywhere they go. Don't lose sight of your worth, or your dreams. Keep applying, I'm certain if you keep trying everything will work out.


Thanks for sharing your story. I'm in the same position you were while studying for the bar, although at a lower T14 and only above median (but good internships). I have one question. I am assuming you originally took the bar exam of a west coast state and weren't anticipating working in NYC. Did the firm let you start before having to take the NY bar exam?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:24 pm

Currently a rising 3L from a bottom T13 and in the bottom quarter of the class. Spending the summer at a mid sized firm in Miami but they dont typically offer as far as I know and I have no real connections here. Expecting this to be a tough year in terms of the job hunt, so was looking for some guidance early on as I haven't found my career office to be super helpful. Are NYC mid sized firms still in play given these stats? What should the plan of attack be here? Ideally I'd like to do some kind of transactional/corporate work in NYC, but I obviously know I'm in no place to be picky.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:03 pm

Might be the wrong thread; apologies if so.

2014 grad currently working at a local/state/federal agency. I'm ~6 months away from tenure (i.e., the point from which I can only be fired for cause). I recently got a new supervisor who isn't that thrilled about my work product. Less about my research or analysis than about my writing style.

Anyway, enough has been said about the subject that I think there's a high chance that I'll be let go before I get tenure. I'll keep trying to deliver what I think is being asked while I'm there, but it's probably about time to start thinking about my future and best options going forward.

Mostly, I'm wondering how much better my prospects would be if I started looking for another job while still employed. If I'm looking at the private sector, I could say with a straight face that I'm looking for more money (and make up some other bullshit like helping real clients). One problem with this though is the ethics involved with firms that might have litigation with my agency. I definitely imagine I'd have to recuse myself (and tell my supervisor) about any firms that I apply to and are on my current docket. For reasons I don't want to get into, this could potentially be a lot of firms in my practice area & location. Less certain about the rules regarding other firms with litigation with my agency on a colleague's docket. I guess I need to look into this.

I could also look at other local/state/federal agencies, though to an extent I'd run into similar ethical issues and having to recuse myself from cases. Plus there'd be less of a believable reason as to why I'm leaving in the first place.

Other than the fact that my supervisor has been pretty critical of my work (more so than of my colleagues), I really like where I'm at. So my first preference is to stay. But I want to be prepared in case that's not an option. I had a hard time finding a good job after graduation, and I don't want to return to that.

Anyway, to return to the big question, how much better are my prospects of getting picked up by a firm while I'm still employed at my agency as opposed to after getting canned?



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