The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
I need to dump. Just got rejected from my I think 600th job interview (this is not an exaggeration, I think it is roughly around that number). I am tired and feel broken. Graduated last year from a T6, passed the bar, got admitted in New York, and yet I still can't seem to make anything stick. Working in a contract position that is supposed to end soon. I've been told numerous times that I am a great interviewer, and I got several interviews through networking, but for some reason, every single time, something would go wrong and I wouldn't get the job. I might have to move back in with my parents soon at the age of 32. I used to be a bright, positive, energetic person, but the past 3 years have drained that out of me. Law school was the biggest mistake of my life.
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
Anonymous User wrote:I need to dump. Just got rejected from my I think 600th job interview (this is not an exaggeration, I think it is roughly around that number). I am tired and feel broken. Graduated last year from a T6, passed the bar, got admitted in New York, and yet I still can't seem to make anything stick. Working in a contract position that is supposed to end soon. I've been told numerous times that I am a great interviewer, and I got several interviews through networking, but for some reason, every single time, something would go wrong and I wouldn't get the job. I might have to move back in with my parents soon at the age of 32. I used to be a bright, positive, energetic person, but the past 3 years have drained that out of me. Law school was the biggest mistake of my life.
600 job interviews? Is that even possible? That must be go in the Guinness Book of Records. How much did you spend for all these interviews?
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
Ah, meant 600th job application. I've only interviewed for about 80-90 of those. I've been on the hunt since I got my offer "rescinded" after 2L summer.Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:I need to dump. Just got rejected from my I think 600th job interview (this is not an exaggeration, I think it is roughly around that number). I am tired and feel broken. Graduated last year from a T6, passed the bar, got admitted in New York, and yet I still can't seem to make anything stick. Working in a contract position that is supposed to end soon. I've been told numerous times that I am a great interviewer, and I got several interviews through networking, but for some reason, every single time, something would go wrong and I wouldn't get the job. I might have to move back in with my parents soon at the age of 32. I used to be a bright, positive, energetic person, but the past 3 years have drained that out of me. Law school was the biggest mistake of my life.
600 job interviews? Is that even possible? That must be go in the Guinness Book of Records. How much did you spend for all these interviews?
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
Hang in there my friend. I know it seems impossible now, but something will turn up if you keep putting yourself out there. Pointlessly shooting resumes out into cyberspace was the most demotivating way I ever lookes for a job. If you know someone, or can connect with someone (through local legal happy hours, for example) who will put your name out there for you... those are the best opportunities. If not, consider a less competitive market. I know many people that pursued positions after graduating in places like the Dakotas, Wyoming, or other seemingly obscure markets. Once they kicked the door wide open on legal careers, almost all of them lateralled back to the cities they wanted to be in. Or do something you'd love. If I wasn't working for anyone but myself and I were you... I would honestly ditch law and become a teacher.Anonymous User wrote:I need to dump. Just got rejected from my I think 600th job interview (this is not an exaggeration, I think it is roughly around that number). I am tired and feel broken. Graduated last year from a T6, passed the bar, got admitted in New York, and yet I still can't seem to make anything stick. Working in a contract position that is supposed to end soon. I've been told numerous times that I am a great interviewer, and I got several interviews through networking, but for some reason, every single time, something would go wrong and I wouldn't get the job. I might have to move back in with my parents soon at the age of 32. I used to be a bright, positive, energetic person, but the past 3 years have drained that out of me. Law school was the biggest mistake of my life.
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
Anonymous User wrote:Ah, meant 600th job application. I've only interviewed for about 80-90 of those. I've been on the hunt since I got my offer "rescinded" after 2L summer.Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:I need to dump. Just got rejected from my I think 600th job interview (this is not an exaggeration, I think it is roughly around that number). I am tired and feel broken. Graduated last year from a T6, passed the bar, got admitted in New York, and yet I still can't seem to make anything stick. Working in a contract position that is supposed to end soon. I've been told numerous times that I am a great interviewer, and I got several interviews through networking, but for some reason, every single time, something would go wrong and I wouldn't get the job. I might have to move back in with my parents soon at the age of 32. I used to be a bright, positive, energetic person, but the past 3 years have drained that out of me. Law school was the biggest mistake of my life.
600 job interviews? Is that even possible? That must be go in the Guinness Book of Records. How much did you spend for all these interviews?
Instead of spending all that time and effort on applications/interviews, why don't you just self-employ and spend all that effort seeking clients? You might actually more easily create positive cash flow that way.
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
Depressed because you think you're too good for it?Dyslectric wrote:The idea of taking my home state's bar, moving back in with my parents, being unemployed for an extended period of time, only to eventually settle with a really low-paying few-attorney plaintiff's side PI or insurance defense firm way out in the suburbs haunts me, and has caused me to slip into a bit of depression these past few months, because it seems inevitable.
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
Idk if you actually intended it this way, if not, I apologize, but there's no need to be snarky. I don't think anybody goes to law school wanting to move back in w/ their parents and struggle to find work...Anonymous User wrote:Depressed because you think you're too good for it?Dyslectric wrote:The idea of taking my home state's bar, moving back in with my parents, being unemployed for an extended period of time, only to eventually settle with a really low-paying few-attorney plaintiff's side PI or insurance defense firm way out in the suburbs haunts me, and has caused me to slip into a bit of depression these past few months, because it seems inevitable.
(S)he's just venting his frustrations.
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
(S)he seems to think thinks (s)he's too good for plaintiff's side PI or insurance defense firm work. The thought of it and the suburbs depresses her. Why would she think she's too good for it?Anonymous User wrote:Idk if you actually intended it this way, if not, I apologize, but there's no need to be snarky. I don't think anybody goes to law school wanting to move back in w/ their parents and struggle to find work...Anonymous User wrote:Depressed because you think you're too good for it?Dyslectric wrote:The idea of taking my home state's bar, moving back in with my parents, being unemployed for an extended period of time, only to eventually settle with a really low-paying few-attorney plaintiff's side PI or insurance defense firm way out in the suburbs haunts me, and has caused me to slip into a bit of depression these past few months, because it seems inevitable.
(S)he's just venting his frustrations.
Because she has a JD and has good grades?
They write in IRAC fast better than the average person. That's not a great marketable skill. They're solving partial differential equations or programming self-driving cars. The sense of entitlement on TLS is hilarious. Welcome to the real world.
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
Anonymous User wrote:(S)he seems to think thinks (s)he's too good for plaintiff's side PI or insurance defense firm work. The thought of it and the suburbs depresses her. Why would she think she's too good for it?Anonymous User wrote:Idk if you actually intended it this way, if not, I apologize, but there's no need to be snarky. I don't think anybody goes to law school wanting to move back in w/ their parents and struggle to find work...Anonymous User wrote:Depressed because you think you're too good for it?Dyslectric wrote:The idea of taking my home state's bar, moving back in with my parents, being unemployed for an extended period of time, only to eventually settle with a really low-paying few-attorney plaintiff's side PI or insurance defense firm way out in the suburbs haunts me, and has caused me to slip into a bit of depression these past few months, because it seems inevitable.
(S)he's just venting his frustrations.
Because she has a JD and has good grades?
They write in IRAC fast better than the average person. That's not a great marketable skill. They're solving partial differential equations or programming self-driving cars. The sense of entitlement on TLS is hilarious. Welcome to the real world.
Okay... so what's your point? Because we can't solve partial differential equations or program self-driving cars, we are useless dregs of the society?
Is that what you're saying?
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
I'm saying the OP, like many, many people here have overestimated their value on the job market. OP would probably be lucky to get an insurance defense job, unless (s)he majorly lucks out. Until they realize their own value on the job market, it's going to be tough for them to find work and they're constantly depressed. It's a never ending cycle of being unproductive.Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:(S)he seems to think thinks (s)he's too good for plaintiff's side PI or insurance defense firm work. The thought of it and the suburbs depresses her. Why would she think she's too good for it?Anonymous User wrote:Idk if you actually intended it this way, if not, I apologize, but there's no need to be snarky. I don't think anybody goes to law school wanting to move back in w/ their parents and struggle to find work...Anonymous User wrote:Depressed because you think you're too good for it?Dyslectric wrote:The idea of taking my home state's bar, moving back in with my parents, being unemployed for an extended period of time, only to eventually settle with a really low-paying few-attorney plaintiff's side PI or insurance defense firm way out in the suburbs haunts me, and has caused me to slip into a bit of depression these past few months, because it seems inevitable.
(S)he's just venting his frustrations.
Because she has a JD and has good grades?
They write in IRAC fast better than the average person. That's not a great marketable skill. They're solving partial differential equations or programming self-driving cars. The sense of entitlement on TLS is hilarious. Welcome to the real world.
Okay... so what's your point? Because we can't solve partial differential equations or program self-driving cars, we are useless dregs of the society?
Is that what you're saying?
- anon sequitur
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
We know that's what you say, you say it like 3-4 times a week, always posting anonymously, and obviously off topic since you're not here to help, you're here to smugly shake your head at people.
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
You done with your temper tantrum? I'm not your mother or legal writing professor - no obligation to here you whine and BS you with BS advice.anon sequitur wrote:We know that's what you say, you say it like 3-4 times a week, always posting anonymously, and obviously off topic since you're not here to help, you're here to smugly shake your head at people.
“Everything worthwhile in life is won through surmounting the associated negative experience. Any attempt to escape the negative, to avoid it or quash it or silence it, only backfires. The avoidance of suffering is a form of suffering. The avoidance of struggle is a struggle. The denial of failure is a failure. Hiding what is shameful is itself a form of shame.
Pain is an inextricable thread in the fabric of life, and to tear it out is not only impossible, but destructive: attempting to tear it out unravels everything else with it. To try to avoid pain is to give too many fucks about pain. In contrast, if you’re able to not give a fuck about the pain, you become unstoppable." ~~~~ Mark Manson”
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
You misread that qoute... it said nothing about being an insufferable douche and shitting on others who are putting their efforts into, and reaching out for advice on how to, surmount their own negative experiences.Anonymous User wrote:You done with your temper tantrum? I'm not your mother or legal writing professor - no obligation to here you whine and BS you with BS advice.anon sequitur wrote:We know that's what you say, you say it like 3-4 times a week, always posting anonymously, and obviously off topic since you're not here to help, you're here to smugly shake your head at people.
“Everything worthwhile in life is won through surmounting the associated negative experience. Any attempt to escape the negative, to avoid it or quash it or silence it, only backfires. The avoidance of suffering is a form of suffering. The avoidance of struggle is a struggle. The denial of failure is a failure. Hiding what is shameful is itself a form of shame.
Pain is an inextricable thread in the fabric of life, and to tear it out is not only impossible, but destructive: attempting to tear it out unravels everything else with it. To try to avoid pain is to give too many fucks about pain. In contrast, if you’re able to not give a fuck about the pain, you become unstoppable." ~~~~ Mark Manson”
Oh, and to reciprocate a bit of the douche back at'cha: *hear.
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
I’m not going to get into a TLS piss fest with one of the many 25 year old TLS whiners such as yourself. But if you’re going to edit and correct my writing, you should probably spell “quote” correctly. Such a marketable skill you have, such a genius!Bla Bla Bla Blah wrote:You misread that qoute... it said nothing about being an insufferable douche and shitting on others who are putting their efforts into, and reaching out for advice on how to, surmount their own negative experiences.Anonymous User wrote:You done with your temper tantrum? I'm not your mother or legal writing professor - no obligation to here you whine and BS you with BS advice.anon sequitur wrote:We know that's what you say, you say it like 3-4 times a week, always posting anonymously, and obviously off topic since you're not here to help, you're here to smugly shake your head at people.
“Everything worthwhile in life is won through surmounting the associated negative experience. Any attempt to escape the negative, to avoid it or quash it or silence it, only backfires. The avoidance of suffering is a form of suffering. The avoidance of struggle is a struggle. The denial of failure is a failure. Hiding what is shameful is itself a form of shame.
Pain is an inextricable thread in the fabric of life, and to tear it out is not only impossible, but destructive: attempting to tear it out unravels everything else with it. To try to avoid pain is to give too many fucks about pain. In contrast, if you’re able to not give a fuck about the pain, you become unstoppable." ~~~~ Mark Manson”
Oh, and to reciprocate a bit of the douche back at'cha: *hear.
As for everything else you ask. I am helping by not encouraging people to do the same things over and over that hasn’t been working. Doing the same thing that’s failed over and over, and expecting different results is nuts.
I also gladly answer questions about programming or how to get jobs in the tech industy. That’s far better than the “I deserve better than this insurance defense job I haven’t even gotten waaaahh my employment”, “for sure you’re t14 with good grades keep not working and applying bro” mentality.
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
$20 this guy is a 0L who is going to a TTT but is sure he'll be #1 and transfer to HYS.
The only people who talk/act like this are dropout failures who constantly post motivational slogans and "big things coming" instead of actually accomplishing anything. Most of the unsuccessful people I know from high school and undergrad do this sort of thing today. None of the successful ones do.
Giving this sort of advice is fine. But, the only reason to be a complete tool about it is if you are compensating for your own lack of success.
The only people who talk/act like this are dropout failures who constantly post motivational slogans and "big things coming" instead of actually accomplishing anything. Most of the unsuccessful people I know from high school and undergrad do this sort of thing today. None of the successful ones do.
Giving this sort of advice is fine. But, the only reason to be a complete tool about it is if you are compensating for your own lack of success.
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
“But the problem with entitlement is that it makes people need to feel good about themselves all the time, even at the expense of those around them. And because entitled people always need to feel good about themselves, they end up spending most of their time thinking about themselves. After all, it takes a lot of energy and work to convince yourself that your shit doesn’t stink, especially when you’ve actually been living in a toilet. ”
― Mark Manson
― Mark Manson
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
Please just stop.
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
Oh boo hoo to insurance defense. If you are in the valve then you need to apply to anything and everything. Lawyers in insurance defense can easily make six figures in 2 to 3 years or after 1 to 3 years you can lateral to a larger law firm assuming you had the school/grades. But as long as you are picky waiting for that perfect law job, then you will be unemployed. No one wants to hire a lawyer with no skills. But after a year of law firm experience, you gain a tremendous amount of skills and it is (while still competitive) easier to lateral then when you had no skills. I landed a law firm job and was bottom 20% of my class. If you are unemployed, you apply to Plaintiff's firms, insurance defense, law clerk positions, and staff attorney positions. You don't say "no" to anything. Apply, apply, apply.Anonymous User wrote:I'm saying the OP, like many, many people here have overestimated their value on the job market. OP would probably be lucky to get an insurance defense job, unless (s)he majorly lucks out. Until they realize their own value on the job market, it's going to be tough for them to find work and they're constantly depressed. It's a never ending cycle of being unproductive.Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:(S)he seems to think thinks (s)he's too good for plaintiff's side PI or insurance defense firm work. The thought of it and the suburbs depresses her. Why would she think she's too good for it?Anonymous User wrote:Idk if you actually intended it this way, if not, I apologize, but there's no need to be snarky. I don't think anybody goes to law school wanting to move back in w/ their parents and struggle to find work...Anonymous User wrote:Depressed because you think you're too good for it?Dyslectric wrote:The idea of taking my home state's bar, moving back in with my parents, being unemployed for an extended period of time, only to eventually settle with a really low-paying few-attorney plaintiff's side PI or insurance defense firm way out in the suburbs haunts me, and has caused me to slip into a bit of depression these past few months, because it seems inevitable.
(S)he's just venting his frustrations.
Because she has a JD and has good grades?
They write in IRAC fast better than the average person. That's not a great marketable skill. They're solving partial differential equations or programming self-driving cars. The sense of entitlement on TLS is hilarious. Welcome to the real world.
Okay... so what's your point? Because we can't solve partial differential equations or program self-driving cars, we are useless dregs of the society?
Is that what you're saying?
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
This is great advice. The delusion in this thread is strong. That's what the K-JD academy will do to you.sparty99 wrote:Oh boo hoo to insurance defense. If you are in the valve then you need to apply to anything and everything. Lawyers in insurance defense can easily make six figures in 2 to 3 years or after 1 to 3 years you can lateral to a larger law firm assuming you had the school/grades. But as long as you are picky waiting for that perfect law job, then you will be unemployed. No one wants to hire a lawyer with no skills. But after a year of law firm experience, you gain a tremendous amount of skills and it is (while still competitive) easier to lateral then when you had no skills. I landed a law firm job and was bottom 20% of my class. If you are unemployed, you apply to Plaintiff's firms, insurance defense, law clerk positions, and staff attorney positions. You don't say "no" to anything. Apply, apply, apply.Anonymous User wrote:I'm saying the OP, like many, many people here have overestimated their value on the job market. OP would probably be lucky to get an insurance defense job, unless (s)he majorly lucks out. Until they realize their own value on the job market, it's going to be tough for them to find work and they're constantly depressed. It's a never ending cycle of being unproductive.Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:(S)he seems to think thinks (s)he's too good for plaintiff's side PI or insurance defense firm work. The thought of it and the suburbs depresses her. Why would she think she's too good for it?Anonymous User wrote:Idk if you actually intended it this way, if not, I apologize, but there's no need to be snarky. I don't think anybody goes to law school wanting to move back in w/ their parents and struggle to find work...Anonymous User wrote:Depressed because you think you're too good for it?Dyslectric wrote:The idea of taking my home state's bar, moving back in with my parents, being unemployed for an extended period of time, only to eventually settle with a really low-paying few-attorney plaintiff's side PI or insurance defense firm way out in the suburbs haunts me, and has caused me to slip into a bit of depression these past few months, because it seems inevitable.
(S)he's just venting his frustrations.
Because she has a JD and has good grades?
They write in IRAC fast better than the average person. That's not a great marketable skill. They're solving partial differential equations or programming self-driving cars. The sense of entitlement on TLS is hilarious. Welcome to the real world.
Okay... so what's your point? Because we can't solve partial differential equations or program self-driving cars, we are useless dregs of the society?
Is that what you're saying?
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
There is no need for this negativity here. Please leave.Anonymous User wrote:This is great advice. The delusion in this thread is strong. That's what the K-JD academy will do to you.sparty99 wrote:Oh boo hoo to insurance defense. If you are in the valve then you need to apply to anything and everything. Lawyers in insurance defense can easily make six figures in 2 to 3 years or after 1 to 3 years you can lateral to a larger law firm assuming you had the school/grades. But as long as you are picky waiting for that perfect law job, then you will be unemployed. No one wants to hire a lawyer with no skills. But after a year of law firm experience, you gain a tremendous amount of skills and it is (while still competitive) easier to lateral then when you had no skills. I landed a law firm job and was bottom 20% of my class. If you are unemployed, you apply to Plaintiff's firms, insurance defense, law clerk positions, and staff attorney positions. You don't say "no" to anything. Apply, apply, apply.Anonymous User wrote:I'm saying the OP, like many, many people here have overestimated their value on the job market. OP would probably be lucky to get an insurance defense job, unless (s)he majorly lucks out. Until they realize their own value on the job market, it's going to be tough for them to find work and they're constantly depressed. It's a never ending cycle of being unproductive.Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:(S)he seems to think thinks (s)he's too good for plaintiff's side PI or insurance defense firm work. The thought of it and the suburbs depresses her. Why would she think she's too good for it?Anonymous User wrote:Idk if you actually intended it this way, if not, I apologize, but there's no need to be snarky. I don't think anybody goes to law school wanting to move back in w/ their parents and struggle to find work...Anonymous User wrote:Depressed because you think you're too good for it?
(S)he's just venting his frustrations.
Because she has a JD and has good grades?
They write in IRAC fast better than the average person. That's not a great marketable skill. They're solving partial differential equations or programming self-driving cars. The sense of entitlement on TLS is hilarious. Welcome to the real world.
Okay... so what's your point? Because we can't solve partial differential equations or program self-driving cars, we are useless dregs of the society?
Is that what you're saying?
For the record, I used to post here pretty regularly before I found my position. I was not K-JD. I worked for 3 years in education before law school and went to a CCN. I had a really shitty 1L year due to a confluence of personal circumstances (including a miscarriage, dissolution of a marriage and family member suffering a heart attack) and due to not being able to really recover from that tumultuous 1.5 year, I ended up graduating jobless. I was in a really dark place, and while I did not think PI defense firms were beneath me, I was extremely bitter about the cards that I was dealt with because the whole point of coming to law school for me was to provide a better life for my family, not add on debt to end up at a job getting paid similarly to my previous job doing something I had no interest in. Luckily, I was able to secure a position after the bar through an alumni connection, but I honestly don't think I would have lasted until that point without the encouragement and support from the people on this forum. It felt reassuring to have people share their stories and support each other, and sincerely bring each other up when they are down. Lord knows I needed that several times when I was tossing and turning in bed of the very likely possibility that I could very likely end up moving back in with my parents single, in my 30s, and in debt. This board definitely helped me.
So no, I was not delusional, nor did I think I had an entitlement issue. I was just someone who was lost in a very dark place who needed someone to tell them that everything will be alright. So please, either take your negativity elsewhere or stop being a dick.
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- Ohiobumpkin
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
I feel like people here are confusing entitlement with desire. You can and should be open to working in a job that isn't your top choice (if alternative is mom's basement), but it isn't wrong or a sign of being entitled to want more or something much different.
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
Whoa, did not see this wave of hate and snark coming. I was not shitting on these jobs, I don't think that I am "above" them. I, however, am convinced that they would make me miserable. As I stated, I am petrified by litigation. I really, really dislike the nature of it. It makes me extremely anxious. I was told that this was something I would shake off during law school, but didn't. I am scared that landing one of those jobs would pidgeonhole me into a career that makes me extremely anxious and miserable. I was venting frustration - not projecting delusion and entitlement.
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
Then go for non-litigation jobs? Apply for document review?Dyslectric wrote: As I stated, I am petrified by litigation. I really, really dislike the nature of it. It makes me extremely anxious. I was told that this was something I would shake off during law school, but didn't.
Why are you scared and extremely anxious over a job that you haven't even landed?I am scared that landing one of those jobs would pidgeonhole me into a career that makes me extremely anxious and miserable. I was venting frustration - not projecting delusion and entitlement.
- RCSOB657
- Posts: 3346
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:50 am
Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)
Do me a favor, send me the info on the jobs your passing up.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
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