The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
dusters
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:12 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby dusters » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
dusters wrote:After getting no offers from OCI, mass mailing hundreds of firms with hardly any responses, getting no offers from my 5 clerkship interviews after 200 applications, and graduating in December and not being able to enjoy the experience, I have finally secured legal employment in a smallish firm that pays well. Man does it feel good. Keep on hunting everyone, you CAN do this. It won't be fun, and it is going to take a TON of work, but it is possible to find meaningful legal employment during your 3L year or after graduation.


Congrats! How did you get the job? By mass-mailing?


It was a posting on my career services job board. I got literally nothing from mass mailing. Applied to 100+ firms both 2L and 3L year with 0 interviews.

User avatar
proleteriate
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:48 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby proleteriate » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:13 pm

Sprout wrote:Checking in. Had a friend get a unicorn job and escape the vale recently. Clinging to the idea there is still hope. Wanted to share.


Sorry, im unfamiliar, what constitutes a unicorn job?

User avatar
Sprout
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:46 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Sprout » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:01 pm

proleteriate wrote:
Sprout wrote:Checking in. Had a friend get a unicorn job and escape the vale recently. Clinging to the idea there is still hope. Wanted to share.


Sorry, im unfamiliar, what constitutes a unicorn job?

I'm not really sure. I don't know TLS much. I know it in context.

Basically, I think a unicorn job is a job that seems too good to be true; namely: (i) comprising the realistic/obtainable fulfillment of happiness while also providing financial security; (ii) really unlikely (and/or difficult) to personally obtain; (iii) really rare to come by (think persistence PLUS luck of the draw/chance). That is my understanding.

F if I know though.

Anonymous User
Posts: 282604
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:17 pm

When should a 3L have a job lined up? Whats the time frame on this. Finishing my 2L year, and mild moderate panic is starting to keep in. Doesnt help that I asked a kid who was a 3L in my class when he got his offer. His reply: " summer of 2L" .

How does a 3L MM firms? Just asking if they have positions open?

Anonymous User
Posts: 282604
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:26 pm

Wrong thread. Apologies.

Anonymous User
Posts: 282604
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:19 pm

I am in a bit of a difficult situation here.

I worked in house my 2L summer (in house was always the goal) in a different market from my law school. It was my desired market at the time, but after my summer I decided that I would rather live in my law school market. I had an offer from my summer position.

I decided to start looking for positions in my home market and accepted another in house position. I was told it was a permanent position and everything sounded great. I turned town my 2L summer position offer and accepted the position in my home market.

About a month ago I was told the company might not have the finances to justify a permanent position. This leaves me sort of in no mans land.

Now my options are to remain with this company and hope they can justify keeping me on (I don't have a definitive answer one way or the other but doesn't sound good) or

I have another offer for a semi non-legal position.

This offer is essentially a business role with a retail/distribution company as a vendor relationships manager with a minor emphasis on small in house counsel activities (they don't have any in house counsel). This position is with people I know and trust on a personal level and pays the same/slightly more than the in house position (~90-100k base).

I guess I am here to get people's opinions. I am pretty eager to leave the first company as I feel betrayed. They incentivised me to knowingly leave my current offer with the promise of a permanent position and then reneged on the deal. Even if they did keep me on post bar I would never feel secure in my job. But at the same time i am hesitant to take the business role as I would essentially be leaving the law more or less and will feel stupid for having spent 150k on a legal education, and would probably have a very hard time every making the switch back into a legal position down the road if need be.

For reference 3L t30 school top 1/3rd.

Anonymous User
Posts: 282604
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:14 pm

OP from above. I guess I should clarify as to why I am posting this in the vale. I am here because my third option (which is a realistic possibility) is to reject the business offer, wait out the in house offer and find out sometime this summer that they cant keep me and then I will be in the vale.

Anonymous User
Posts: 282604
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:44 pm

Need advice guys. I'm a 3L and have accepted an offer in biglaw but the firm is slow with work in the practice area that I'm in. So much so that they make not let me int hat group. Interested in switching firms during my summer/bar study prior to starting? how realistic is this and how do I go about it? Been trying all year but its been slow for 3L hires. what are backup plans for this?

User avatar
jchiles
Posts: 690
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jchiles » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Need advice guys. I'm a 3L and have accepted an offer in biglaw but the firm is slow with work in the practice area that I'm in. So much so that they make not let me int hat group. Interested in switching firms during my summer/bar study prior to starting? how realistic is this and how do I go about it? Been trying all year but its been slow for 3L hires. what are backup plans for this?


Dude not here

Anonymous User
Posts: 282604
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:04 pm

jchiles wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Need advice guys. I'm a 3L and have accepted an offer in biglaw but the firm is slow with work in the practice area that I'm in. So much so that they make not let me int hat group. Interested in switching firms during my summer/bar study prior to starting? how realistic is this and how do I go about it? Been trying all year but its been slow for 3L hires. what are backup plans for this?


Dude not here



^

SFSpartan
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:01 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby SFSpartan » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Need advice guys. I'm a 3L and have accepted an offer in biglaw but the firm is slow with work in the practice area that I'm in. So much so that they make not let me int hat group. Interested in switching firms during my summer/bar study prior to starting? how realistic is this and how do I go about it? Been trying all year but its been slow for 3L hires. what are backup plans for this?


There is a time and a place for everything. This is neither the right time, nor the right place for this type of inquiry. A bunch of people without offers aren't gonna feel bad for the dude that's going to make $180k but can't get into the group he wants.

That said, you go about it by massmailing, which you should have been doing already.

Anonymous User
Posts: 282604
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:57 am

Graduated in December..... no job and it's crazy already ....
T20 slightly below median = shit law ?

ejs2017
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:48 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ejs2017 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Graduated in December..... no job and it's crazy already ....
T20 slightly below median = shit law ?

Respectfully, that's the wrong attitude, in my humble opinion. I am an established lawyer but no stranger to the "vale." When you're an unemployed recent law grad in an oversaturated market there really is no such thing as "shit law." It's all about getting your foot in the door and establishing yourself.

Stay positive and be patient. You went to a T20 school which is great. Use Linkedin to network. Reach out to established attorneys from your school in your geographic area of choice to make some contacts. Don't be too proud.

Anonymous User
Posts: 282604
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:31 am

3L with public service job offer that was just (this late in the year) revoked due to budgets after it seeming like a settled thing since early 3L. What now? Feeling lost.

User avatar
zot1
Posts: 4474
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:53 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:3L with public service job offer that was just (this late in the year) revoked due to budgets after it seeming like a settled thing since early 3L. What now? Feeling lost.


Hustle and apply everywhere you'd be willing to work.

FamilyLawEsq
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:30 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FamilyLawEsq » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:08 am

We are a 20+ attorney firm in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania seeking an entry level associate with a demonstrated interest in federal and state taxation and general corporate matters. An LLM in taxation is strongly preferred but not required. The successful candidate is someone with ties to the Lancaster County community or a willingness to relocate to Lancaster County. Interested candidates should send their resume and cover letter to Jeffrey Mills at 212 North Queen Street, Lancaster, PA 17603.

Anonymous User
Posts: 282604
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone successfully gotten a job around this time of year after graduating from law school BY MASS-MAILING TO BIGLAW?


i tried to PM you but you are anon.

gaddockteeg
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:33 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gaddockteeg » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Graduated in December..... no job and it's crazy already ....
T20 slightly below median = shit law ?


No way. At a T20, once youre below top third, i think it's all the same.

just keep hustling. I know a few median t20 folks at my own big law firm -- many of whom got offers late in the 3L game. Leverage your prior experience and think about what firms would have the most use for you.

insertusernamehere wrote:3L still stuck in the vale, anyone have any advice on a staff attorney position? This position would be with a top firm in the legal market I would like to stay in. Any thoughts?


Take it. For juniors, the responsibility is pretty indistinguishable from associates. just make sure you lateral out (to an associate position) to a peer firm by year 3 or else you may be come a permanent staff atty. but otherwise, this is very close to regular big law track.
Last edited by gaddockteeg on Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 282604
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:17 pm

Unemployed 3l at CCN who got no offered by my 2l summer firm. Where do I take the bar? I can go back to my home state which is not a part of the MBE or take the new york one

I have interviews and applications pending at some firms in both states, but I don't know what to do.

Anonymous User
Posts: 282604
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:06 pm

Officially out of the vale. While I was initially relieved to receive the offer after months of applying to jobs (in my target market, no less), I am now worried and depressed because the pay is below $45K/year. With over $200K+ of law school/undergrad debt, I am not feeling as happy and relieved as I should be. Sorry to be so negative, it just seems like even though I have finally secured a job, the struggle never seems to stop.

ejs2017
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:48 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ejs2017 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Officially out of the vale. While I was initially relieved to receive the offer after months of applying to jobs (in my target market, no less), I am now worried and depressed because the pay is below $45K/year. With over $200K+ of law school/undergrad debt, I am not feeling as happy and relieved as I should be. Sorry to be so negative, it just seems like even though I have finally secured a job, the struggle never seems to stop.

The market remains very tough. Your disappointment is understandable. However, start the job, do your best, get some experience, make good impressions and contacts and continue to search. Look at it as a means to an end. You're right about one thing: the struggle never seems to stop. I don't know too many in our line of work who believe that they've "made it."

redsox550
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:15 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby redsox550 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:01 pm

gaddockteeg wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Graduated in December..... no job and it's crazy already ....
T20 slightly below median = shit law ?


No way. At a T20, once youre below top third, i think it's all the same.

just keep hustling. I know a few median t20 folks at my own big law firm -- many of whom got offers late in the 3L game. Leverage your prior experience and think about what firms would have the most use for you.

insertusernamehere wrote:3L still stuck in the vale, anyone have any advice on a staff attorney position? This position would be with a top firm in the legal market I would like to stay in. Any thoughts?


Take it. For juniors, the responsibility is pretty indistinguishable from associates. just make sure you lateral out (to an associate position) to a peer firm by year 3 or else you may be come a permanent staff atty. but otherwise, this is very close to regular big law track.


Not too sure the above is true. I am a regular associate so take it with a grain of salt but I always heard, once a staff attorney always a staff attorney

gaddockteeg
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:33 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gaddockteeg » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:17 am

redsox550 wrote:
gaddockteeg wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Graduated in December..... no job and it's crazy already ....
T20 slightly below median = shit law ?


No way. At a T20, once youre below top third, i think it's all the same.

just keep hustling. I know a few median t20 folks at my own big law firm -- many of whom got offers late in the 3L game. Leverage your prior experience and think about what firms would have the most use for you.

insertusernamehere wrote:3L still stuck in the vale, anyone have any advice on a staff attorney position? This position would be with a top firm in the legal market I would like to stay in. Any thoughts?


Take it. For juniors, the responsibility is pretty indistinguishable from associates. just make sure you lateral out (to an associate position) to a peer firm by year 3 or else you may be come a permanent staff atty. but otherwise, this is very close to regular big law track.


Not too sure the above is true. I am a regular associate so take it with a grain of salt but I always heard, once a staff attorney always a staff attorney


It's been pretty true in my exp but I won't say I'm an authority on the subject. I'm at a v20 and we've actually had a problem with staff atty retention. I've been here 2+ years and during this time we've internally promoted 3 to associate, lost 6 to midlaw or other v100 firms as associate, lost 1 to a fed clerkship (but that could havebeen set up in law school so im not sure how it worked), lost 2 to big fed.

Anonymous User
Posts: 282604
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:56 pm

(Excuse the negativity. Bad day and I just really need to vent)

3L without a job a month before graduation... I'm trying sooo hard to stay motivated but to be honest, my mood mostly just swings between depressed and numb. Really what do I do at this point? I was doing so well before law school, went to a T6, and everybody around me was talking about how great their lives are going to be after graduation like they are just going to coast for the rest of their lives. Meanwhile, I can't help but feel like all this money, time and hard work I invested was all for nothing. The prospect of not having a job after the bar terrifies but also paralyzes me. I feel like I've tried everything - MMing, networking (debatable if I've done enough of that), and talking to career services, etc and nothing is working. I know I have to but I seem to be at a point where I just don't have it in me to care anymore. And then I feel guilty about not caring enough. It's this toxic cycle that I can't seem to get out of. How did people get through this? Is there any chance that I can still get a job in the private sector before taking the bar?

Anonymous User
Posts: 282604
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:13 pm

If it makes you feel any better, I'm in the same boat (on the public interest side though). My anxiety has gotten really bad the past week; yesterday I was close to having a panic-attack in the library. I took today off to reset and take care of myself, which helped a lot (if you're able to, I recommend this). Back to the grind tomorrow.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.