The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Actingmeg1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Actingmeg1 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:54 pm

Long time lurker... I am median at a California TTT. In the Vale. I was wondering if people were hearing that they need to pass the bar before bothering to apply places. I have worked mostly in non-profit/Public Interest, but am still interested in small/medium firms. I've made good connections, especially externing for a judge that told me not to worry with her on my resume. But I've been told by most that no offers will be made until I pass the bar. Is this a California thing? Especially considering our ridiculously low bar passage from July 2016. Is this a TTT thing? I definitely want to stay in SoCal.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:29 pm

Can I post a bar related question here?

Currently in the vale and going to school in IL. I would like to stay here post-graduation, but I'm worried that I wouldn't be able to find a job here after graduation and couldn't afford rent without a job. I'm from NorCal and could easily live back at home if I do not get a job, but it would be a lot harder to find an IL job if I'm not in IL (so I would likely search for CA jobs).

Does anyone have any advice on whether I should sign up for the IL bar or apply to both IL and CA? The final filing deadline for IL is May 15th, and CA is June 15th. As of now, I think the best course of action is to wait until the IL deadline (since it's earlier) and if I do not have anything, sign up for CA. I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions, being in the vale is not fun.

Thanks

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:59 am

Can speak to IL bar but the moral character for the CA bar is super long. And if you have anything that could be problematic, passing the moral character stage will take even longer, delaying getting your license even after you pass the bar.

There have been people who lose their jobs because of licensing delays in CA.

So here's something else to consider.

Good luck on your search!

PS my two cents is to take the bar in the jurisdiction you'd like to practice in. If I hadn't gotten a job, I would have had to move back in with my parents in AL. You better believe I would never want to work there. Your situation might be different. Just stuff to think about.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can I post a bar related question here?

Currently in the vale and going to school in IL. I would like to stay here post-graduation, but I'm worried that I wouldn't be able to find a job here after graduation and couldn't afford rent without a job. I'm from NorCal and could easily live back at home if I do not get a job, but it would be a lot harder to find an IL job if I'm not in IL (so I would likely search for CA jobs).

Does anyone have any advice on whether I should sign up for the IL bar or apply to both IL and CA? The final filing deadline for IL is May 15th, and CA is June 15th. As of now, I think the best course of action is to wait until the IL deadline (since it's earlier) and if I do not have anything, sign up for CA. I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions, being in the vale is not fun.

Thanks


I would pick one, CA bar is just loaded with bullshit to keep the pass rates artificially low so I can't imagine studying for that and somewhere else. It's worse for you since neither of your targets is a UBE state.

edit- accidental anon.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:00 pm

SECRETLY STARTED APPLYING TO PARALEGAL JOBS 3LOL WOOOOHOOO I LOVE LAW SCHOOL

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:07 pm

I know it's easier for me to say this looking from the outside, but if you can, don't do this yet. I applied to many jobs as a 3L but I tried to not apply to anything I didn't want to do. Simply put, I didn't want to end up having to take a job just because I had an offer and I needed the money.

Good luck!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:04 pm

NVM
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MarkinKansasCity
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:SECRETLY STARTED APPLYING TO PARALEGAL JOBS 3LOL WOOOOHOOO I LOVE LAW SCHOOL


Are you still in law school? Because if you are it's way too early for this level of desperation.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:16 pm

Yeah, if you're a 3L you have a long stretch between now and bar results coming out for applications (and there are a lot of places that won't hire until after you're licensed). It's too early to apply for paralegal gigs.

iliketurtles123
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby iliketurtles123 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:20 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yeah, if you're a 3L you have a long stretch between now and bar results coming out for applications (and there are a lot of places that won't hire until after you're licensed). It's too early to apply for paralegal gigs.


Yeah. I remember I had biglaw interviews (and for other gigs) until graduation.

Some of the strike-outs at my school ended up with biglaw gigs after graduation. It's not over yet. Just keep hustling. You shouldn't be applying for paralegal gigs until after your bar results, and even still. I know people who are just getting job offers now (they graduated last year). It's a long process

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:33 pm

3L with an offer from a midsize firm. I want to continue to take a swing at biglaw. Just having difficulty determining who is still hiring. Should I just email previous contacts and cold email firms? Any advice would be great!

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BVest
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Should I just email previous contacts and cold email firms?


Yes. Everybody's hiring, unless they're not. If you assume they're not you run the risk of missing those who are.


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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:30 pm

narfkarta wrote:Just use this: https://lawsalaries.blogspot.com/

Stop shilling this blog, dude. Not helpful in this thread.

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trebekismyhero
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby trebekismyhero » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:3L with an offer from a midsize firm. I want to continue to take a swing at biglaw. Just having difficulty determining who is still hiring. Should I just email previous contacts and cold email firms? Any advice would be great!


You're not in the vale so not the best thread to ask for advice. But obviously, yeah keep mass mailing and networking if you want a different job.

iliketurtles123
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby iliketurtles123 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:3L with an offer from a midsize firm. I want to continue to take a swing at biglaw. Just having difficulty determining who is still hiring. Should I just email previous contacts and cold email firms? Any advice would be great!



majority of my 3L interviews with biglaw were from posts on Simplicity.
I stopped mass mailing since I saw no results from it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:44 pm

Dinged from my second callback (was dinged from first months ago). Now have no serious leads. Also checked my student loans for first time. Holy shit.


law school was far and away the biggest mistake i've ever made and i've made so, so many. tried to do it right. ended up at a t14. have above median grades. have a personality. fuck

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:45 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yeah, if you're a 3L you have a long stretch between now and bar results coming out for applications (and there are a lot of places that won't hire until after you're licensed). It's too early to apply for paralegal gigs.



Im at a T1 (25-30 range), been mostly top third throughout law school. I had a bad semester where I made a few B-'s and zero A's. I dropped to just outside median. Other than starting my own practice, odds of practicing law anywhere for a salary are looking dim. I need a job right out of graduation because I have a large amount of loans from law school and undergrad.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:55 pm

Again, it's January; I think it's too early to say that. I get that you need to do what works for you but I don't want you to sell yourself short this early in the game. Also, keep in mind that payment on law school loans doesn't kick in until November and you should be able to have everything on an income-based plan. If your income is low enough your payments are 0.

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yeah, if you're a 3L you have a long stretch between now and bar results coming out for applications (and there are a lot of places that won't hire until after you're licensed). It's too early to apply for paralegal gigs.



Im at a T1 (25-30 range), been mostly top third throughout law school. I had a bad semester where I made a few B-'s and zero A's. I dropped to just outside median. Other than starting my own practice, odds of practicing law anywhere for a salary are looking dim. I need a job right out of graduation because I have a large amount of loans from law school and undergrad.


I know plenty of people in your same situation (re school and class rank) who found jobs either as 3Ls or within the first 9 months after graduation.

Outside of biglaw, firms, local government, and public interest organizations care a lot less about grades. Then it becomes a who you game in a way. So tap your resources, go to every networking event available, smile and be likeable. I once got offered a job with a family law firm because I met the partner and he liked my terrible jokes. He didn't even ask what my class standing was or what classes I had taken.

If you do graduate without a job, you can get in income-driven payment plans. If your income is zero, that means your payment will also be zero. But if you can't for some reason, you can always talk to your lender about deferment.

I know a little bit on how you feel. I didn't get my offer for the job I'm in until a week before I was set to take my last law school finals. The stress and pressure was real, and I was freaking the fuck out. Despite that, I tried to keep my goals clear. You will likely not work during the bar full time. So you have all of that summer to look for paralegal jobs if you're in fact feeling like there's nothing else. But for now, all of your energy should go to finishing the semester strong and continuing to look for attorney jobs. It's not gonna be easy. Actually, with more rejections, this shit will be depressing AF. But it only takes one fucking yes. So keep pushing.

iliketurtles123
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby iliketurtles123 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Dinged from my second callback (was dinged from first months ago). Now have no serious leads. Also checked my student loans for first time. Holy shit.


law school was far and away the biggest mistake i've ever made and i've made so, so many. tried to do it right. ended up at a t14. have above median grades. have a personality. fuck



Same boat as you.
Just take it slowly. I looked on linkedin and it seemed like some of my strikeout classmates are in biglaw now, or in a decent gov. gig, or working for pwc/kpmg/similar firms. i'm a 2016 grad.

I'm utilizing my school funded fellowship since I had to move back to my home market where there are less jobs. Not sure what the outcome will be for me but it is getting me some great experience.

Also, I see tons of job postings for entry level jobs (much more after November when bar results come out) but on Simplicity. I haven't applied to them since they're not in my home market.

Moving forward: keep applying. Make sure you pass the bar. If you can, keep your grades up.

Loans: there's IBR. Don't worry. I'm 99% sure I have more loans than you. It's stressful sometimes but look at the big picture. Look at it over 10-20 years. Right now you might not be able to make a dent in your student loans but over the next couple years it will be paid back (slowly). Just keep your head up and don't let it get in the way of enjoying life.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:16 pm

zot1 wrote:Can speak to IL bar but the moral character for the CA bar is super long. And if you have anything that could be problematic, passing the moral character stage will take even longer, delaying getting your license even after you pass the bar.

There have been people who lose their jobs because of licensing delays in CA.

So here's something else to consider.

Good luck on your search!

PS my two cents is to take the bar in the jurisdiction you'd like to practice in. If I hadn't gotten a job, I would have had to move back in with my parents in AL. You better believe I would never want to work there. Your situation might be different. Just stuff to think about.


Anon from above, thanks for the advice!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:20 pm

zot1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
I know plenty of people in your same situation (re school and class rank) who found jobs either as 3Ls or within the first 9 months after graduation.

Outside of biglaw, firms, local government, and public interest organizations care a lot less about grades. Then it becomes a who you game in a way. So tap your resources, go to every networking event available, smile and be likeable. I once got offered a job with a family law firm because I met the partner and he liked my terrible jokes. He didn't even ask what my class standing was or what classes I had taken.
.



What networking events? the only thing I know about is the public interest networking events organized by my law school and I have ZERO interests in PI. Where can I find networking events in the Bay Area or in general?

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blueapple
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby blueapple » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
zot1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
I know plenty of people in your same situation (re school and class rank) who found jobs either as 3Ls or within the first 9 months after graduation.

Outside of biglaw, firms, local government, and public interest organizations care a lot less about grades. Then it becomes a who you game in a way. So tap your resources, go to every networking event available, smile and be likeable. I once got offered a job with a family law firm because I met the partner and he liked my terrible jokes. He didn't even ask what my class standing was or what classes I had taken.
.



What networking events? the only thing I know about is the public interest networking events organized by my law school and I have ZERO interests in PI. Where can I find networking events in the Bay Area or in general?


Join the local bar association

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:30 pm

I wasn't the one who mentioned networking events, but join the local bar association(s) (any and all, like usually the state and the local big city will have separate associations - dues are usually 0 for students), join the local associations for the kind of law you're interested in (like AILA for immigration lawyers - there are lots and lots of these, not limited to public interest), find out if you can join any the local Inns of Court (this can require getting someone to vouch for you but is an excellent opportunity if you can swing it), join the appropriate race/ethnicity/gender-in-law group if one is available to you, and go to any and all events any of these groups hold that you can. Talk to people. Don't walk up and say "I need a job," but just be a normal human being and talk to them and socialize and talk to them about what they do. Go to local CLEs in your field, if you can afford to (often they waive fees or are very cheap for law students). Volunteer to help out for events and such (people LOVE volunteers).

You can also do the informational interviewing thing - reach out to people from your law school/undergrad/whatever community you might have in common, ask them if they have time to answer some questions about getting into their field, ask genuine questions, have conversations with them, maintain contact in the future. But there are also lots of organized events.




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