The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[jamesm722]

I'm in my last semester, is it ok to join in the conversation? I'm still without a job and it's getting stressful. I had several interview for Honors Programs in DC, but received rejection letters from each by now. Have had 3 big law interviews with no offers as well.

I'm primarily interested in DC, Boston, and NYC. Really debating on taking 2 night classes after the bar and qualifying for the patent bar. My resume is pretty good, but it's apparently not enough.

[BlueLotus]

Congrats anon and thanks for the encouragement!

I haven't looked at any JDpreferred nonlawyer jobs, probably because I have no idea what those are.
Can you share some examples? thanks!

This is an example (compliance):

TITLE IX AND EQUITY COORDINATOR

Easton, PA
LAFAYETTE COLLEGE
http://www.lafayette.edu/
Date Posted: 01/27/2015
Job Type: LAW RELATED POSITIONS
Schedule Type: Full Time

Practice Areas: Education, Gender/Sexuality, Legislative/Policy Issues

Job Description
The Title IX and Equity Coordinator will have the primary responsibility for leading the College’s education initiatives and prevention programs regarding sexual assault, sexual misconduct, relationship violence, and sexual harassment. The Title IX and Equity Coordinator will ensure that such programs are conducted in compliance with Title IX of the Education Amendments of the 1972 Civil Rights Act (Title IX), the Violence Against Women Act Reauthorization of 2012 (VAWA), other federal and state legislation and regulations, and reflect best practices in the higher education community. The Title IX and Equity Coordinator will also have responsibility for ensuring the College’s timely response to reports of sexual assault, sexual misconduct, relationship violence, and sexual harassment, monitoring investigations into such reports, and developing and implementing policies and procedures related to these matters.

Responsibilities:

Serve as an expert on Title IX requirements and compliance and provide consultation to senior officers as necessary.
Develop and coordinate the delivery of campus-wide education, prevention, training, and outreach programming for students, faculty and staff related to Title IX, Clery Act, and VAWA. Maintain documentation of all training and educational programs related to compliance with Title IX and the Clery Act.
Review and ensure policies, procedures, protocols and practices are in compliance with Title IX implementing regulations.
Monitor investigations into reports of sexual assault, sexual misconduct, relationship violence, and sexual harassment to ensure that they are conducted in a timely, efficient, effective, and fair manner for all parties.
Identify resources for faculty, staff, and students who could benefit from supplementary support during the investigation.
Implement grievance procedures and organize the grievance files, disposition reports, and other records regarding Title IX cases. Make recommendations regarding updates to the disciplinary procedure for sexual assault as necessary.
Stay up-to-date on current relevant statutes and regulations, and identify and integrate best practices in the Title IX investigation arena. Review reports on the number, nature, and disposition of complaints. Identify any patterns and systemic problems, and make recommendations to address such patterns and problems.
Collaborate with Public Safety to ensure accuracy in reporting of annual crimes statistics.
Qualifications
Title IX and Equity Coordinator Core Competencies:

Knowledge of current state and federal laws and regulations, institution-specific policies, practices and procedures, and best practices and trends in the field of higher education related to harassment and other discriminatory practices.
Ability to recommend policies, revise practices, and implement equitable procedures across departments, including, athletics, academic affairs, student affairs/student conduct/discipline, and human resources.
Ability to oversee and manage caseload in a manner that ensures the prompt, effective, and equitable conclusion of these matters.
Ability to design and deliver training programs to all campus constituencies, and assess the effectiveness of these training programs; and
Ability to build relationships and balance the multiple, and sometimes conflicting interests of diverse stakeholders.
Qualifications Knowledge, Skills and Abilities:

Required:



Bachelor’s degree plus 3 years of experience in a field related to addressing sexual violence in a college or university setting.
Demonstrated knowledge and ability to interpret federal, state, and local equal opportunity and non-discrimination laws and regulations related to higher education (e.g. Title IX,Title VI, FERPA, Clery Act, Rehabilitation Act, etc.).
Knowledge of best practices as they relate to institutions of higher education compliance with the foregoing regulatory obligations.
Effective project management, organization, and analytical skills.
Strong presentation and facilitation skills with an emphasis on education and training for a variety of constituencies.
Strong written communication skills.
Ability to guide, advise, and support training and learning.
Excellent attention to detail, strong problem-solving skills, and ability to deal with sensitive information.
Ability to build relationships and establish collaborative partnerships across the institution and with peer institutions.
Demonstrated commitment to diversity and inclusivity, as well as the ability to work with a wide range of constituencies (staff, students, faculty, parents, administrators, community).
Strong interpersonal skills and ability to remain a neutral party.
Discretion, good judgment, and ability to maintain a high level of confidentiality.


Preferred:



JD degree with experience practicing in a related field of law or experience in higher education, particularly serving as a Title IX Coordinator.
Experience with cases involving sexual assault, sexual misconduct, relationship violence, and sexual harassment cases in a university or college setting.
Experience conducting or overseeing investigations and resolving allegations of discrimination, harassment, sexual violence, and sexual misconduct.
Application Instructions:
Send resume to: Office of Human Resources, Title IX Coordinator, Lafayette College. Easton, PA 18042 or hr@lafayette.edu

[pattyw2008]

I'm in my last semester, is it ok to join in the conversation? I'm still without a job and it's getting stressful. I had several interview for Honors Programs in DC, but received rejection letters from each by now. Have had 3 big law interviews with no offers as well.

I'm primarily interested in DC, Boston, and NYC. Really debating on taking 2 night classes after the bar and qualifying for the patent bar. My resume is pretty good, but it's apparently not enough.

I'm pretty much in the same place as you regarding having several interviews, but no offers. I've been an alternate at some BigFed honors programs, which is even more frustrating.

Career services says to just keep applying and be lucky i'm getting interviews, since most people are not. It's so stressful though... this job search has been killing me.

[rinkrat19]

The ongoing hunt for a fellowship host employer continues...

We have to have an employer for next year lined up, letter of commitment in hand, before we can even apply for the fellowship (deadline March)
My top choice (omgyay!) employer finally emails me back saying they'd be interested in speaking with me about the fellowship...after I've passed the bar (October, obviously)
No, sparky, that's not how it works. And thanks for reading my letter so carefully.

[girlrunning]

I saw these postings on Symplicity and thought it might help someone looking:

The Richmond, VA office of Frost Brown Todd is looking for a new associate (December Graduate, Recent Graduate, Graduate/Alumni). Experience in commercial real estate finance is a plus, but is not required. Practice area is listed as Business/Commercial Transactions, Land Use & Zoning, Real Estate & Real Estate Development. You submit via its website's “self-apply” feature.

The TN Dept. of Labor and Workforce Development is looking for an Assistant General Counsel (December Graduate, Recent Graduate, Graduate/Alumni). It's a full time position w/ benefits.

Fingers crossed for all of you!

[Anonymous User]

Hey all I figured I should join in on this thread.

I'm in my last semester at a T14 with above median grades and almost outside the top 1/3 of the class. I am also a transfer student from a TTT who was in the top 10%. I have applied to every job I could find and have not received any interviews, nor has mass mailing turned anything up. Starting to get really worried to say the least. I have good work experience as well, as I had a legal paid job last semester and this semester, as well as two internships since last year. Any words of encouragement or anecdotal evidence of people in similar situations would be greatly appreciated.

Also, do employers care to see my Fall semester 3L grades? Or are 1L and 2L grades sufficient?

[sparty99]

Hey all I figured I should join in on this thread.

I'm in my last semester at a T14 with above median grades and almost outside the top 1/3 of the class. I am also a transfer student from a TTT who was in the top 10%. I have applied to every job I could find and have not received any interviews, nor has mass mailing turned anything up. Starting to get really worried to say the least. I have good work experience as well, as I had a legal paid job last semester and this semester, as well as two internships since last year. Any words of encouragement or anecdotal evidence of people in similar situations would be greatly appreciated.

Also, do employers care to see my Fall semester 3L grades? Or are 1L and 2L grades sufficient?

I received several interviews at the National BLSA interviews in NY AFTER I had graduated 3 months earlier. For the most part, those 6 interviews were all I have had since. Don't be afraid to apply to career fairs after you graduated. I thought they would say no, but to my surprise, they didn't.

[Anonymous User]

Hey all I figured I should join in on this thread.

I'm in my last semester at a T14 with above median grades and almost outside the top 1/3 of the class. I am also a transfer student from a TTT who was in the top 10%. I have applied to every job I could find and have not received any interviews, nor has mass mailing turned anything up. Starting to get really worried to say the least. I have good work experience as well, as I had a legal paid job last semester and this semester, as well as two internships since last year. Any words of encouragement or anecdotal evidence of people in similar situations would be greatly appreciated.

Also, do employers care to see my Fall semester 3L grades? Or are 1L and 2L grades sufficient?

I received several interviews at the National BLSA interviews in NY AFTER I had graduated 3 months earlier. For the most part, those 6 interviews were all I have had since. Don't be afraid to apply to career fairs after you graduated. I thought they would say no, but to my surprise, they didn't.

Did you have similar stats from a T14?

[sparty99]

Hey all I figured I should join in on this thread.

I'm in my last semester at a T14 with above median grades and almost outside the top 1/3 of the class. I am also a transfer student from a TTT who was in the top 10%. I have applied to every job I could find and have not received any interviews, nor has mass mailing turned anything up. Starting to get really worried to say the least. I have good work experience as well, as I had a legal paid job last semester and this semester, as well as two internships since last year. Any words of encouragement or anecdotal evidence of people in similar situations would be greatly appreciated.

Also, do employers care to see my Fall semester 3L grades? Or are 1L and 2L grades sufficient?

I received several interviews at the National BLSA interviews in NY AFTER I had graduated 3 months earlier. For the most part, those 6 interviews were all I have had since. Don't be afraid to apply to career fairs after you graduated. I thought they would say no, but to my surprise, they didn't.

hells no. Horrible stats. But most of these interviews were with DAs or Court Clerkships. I did get one firm interview.

Did you have similar stats from a T14?

[BlueLotus]

The ongoing hunt for a fellowship host employer continues...

We have to have an employer for next year lined up, letter of commitment in hand, before we can even apply for the fellowship (deadline March)
My top choice (omgyay!) employer finally emails me back saying they'd be interested in speaking with me about the fellowship...after I've passed the bar (October, obviously)
No, sparky, that's not how it works. And thanks for reading my letter so carefully.

How frustrating! I'm sure with your stats you'll find someone willing to take your free labor by March.

[Mr. Archer]

Does anyone have any experience with/know anything about fellowships with private companies? I saw a posting for one but it doesn't have any information about timeframe or salary. I wasn't sure if this would be similar to a public interest fellowship. Any information would be great. Thanks!

[BlueLotus]

Does anyone have any experience with/know anything about fellowships with private companies? I saw a posting for one but it doesn't have any information about timeframe or salary. I wasn't sure if this would be similar to a public interest fellowship. Any information would be great. Thanks!

Sounds sketch. Is it like a for-profit company trying to get free labor from a desperate grad?

[Anonymous User]

I can't do this anymore. I've now been on 18 interviews with 14 solid rejections, 2 dormant spots that I've never heard back, and 2 with multiple rounds before getting rejected.

Should I even try becoming a lawyer anymore? I feel and look defeated at this point. At this point, I think it's showing when I go to interviews to the point where I'm hurting my opportunities.

[Mr. Archer]

Does anyone have any experience with/know anything about fellowships with private companies? I saw a posting for one but it doesn't have any information about timeframe or salary. I wasn't sure if this would be similar to a public interest fellowship. Any information would be great. Thanks!

Sounds sketch. Is it like a for-profit company trying to get free labor from a desperate grad?

Eh, it doesn't seem that way. It's a national company and the position is in the legal department at headquarters. But, who knows.

[Lwoods]

Does anyone have any experience with/know anything about fellowships with private companies? I saw a posting for one but it doesn't have any information about timeframe or salary. I wasn't sure if this would be similar to a public interest fellowship. Any information would be great. Thanks!

Sounds sketch. Is it like a for-profit company trying to get free labor from a desperate grad?

Eh, it doesn't seem that way. It's a national company and the position is in the legal department at headquarters. But, who knows.

Ask your CSO. My alma mater and the school where I spent my visiting year both have partnerships with several corporations to provide in-house fellowships for a year after law school. They're paid.

I was introduced to one biglaw associate by a partner in her same firm. The associate had done the fellowship before getting her firm job. The partner seemed to like the program because it gave the associate insight on how the client operates. That's obviously just one anecdote, but that's the way you market it after.

[BlueLotus]

I can't do this anymore. I've now been on 18 interviews with 14 solid rejections, 2 dormant spots that I've never heard back, and 2 with multiple rounds before getting rejected.

Should I even try becoming a lawyer anymore? I feel and look defeated at this point. At this point, I think it's showing when I go to interviews to the point where I'm hurting my opportunities.

Try following up with the two dormant spots you haven't heard back from.

And I know, the Vale is hell. Hang in there and stay strong bro. Seek therapy if that will help in improving your self-esteem. You'll find something or the other soon. You a 3L or grad?

[hiima3L]

I can't do this anymore. I've now been on 18 interviews with 14 solid rejections, 2 dormant spots that I've never heard back, and 2 with multiple rounds before getting rejected.

Should I even try becoming a lawyer anymore? I feel and look defeated at this point. At this point, I think it's showing when I go to interviews to the point where I'm hurting my opportunities.

I'm sorry to say it, but it needs to be said: this is a normal, if not better, outcome than most law school grads these days. I know plenty of people who couldn't even get an interview for months at a time. You just have to remain persistent. I don't even know how many jobs I applied for in law school until I got my first one. And I applied for dozens but only got 4 real interviews to get my second (current) job.

I understand that doing the interviews and getting your hopes up often is worse than getting a rejection without an interview. But the fact that you've gotten 18 interviews means you have something employers want. Keep being persistent.

[BlueLotus]

Will it be especially tough to get a small firm jerb if all of your experience has been public interest? I have a lot of family law and immigration experience (in Legal Aid) and I am targeting small firms that focus on those practice areas.

[Mr. Archer]

Will it be especially tough to get a small firm jerb if all of your experience has been public interest? I have a lot of family law and immigration experience (in Legal Aid) and I am targeting small firms that focus on those practice areas.

I think small firms would be interested since you have experience in those practice areas. I can't see them knocking you for public interest unless they only want someone with previous small firm experience.

[BarbellDreams]

I can't do this anymore. I've now been on 18 interviews with 14 solid rejections, 2 dormant spots that I've never heard back, and 2 with multiple rounds before getting rejected.

Should I even try becoming a lawyer anymore? I feel and look defeated at this point. At this point, I think it's showing when I go to interviews to the point where I'm hurting my opportunities.

Between graduation (May) and getting my first legal job post bar results (offer came ! mid December) I applied to 483 jobs (I have a spreadsheet I kept along with comments, dates, replies, etc., so no exaggeration, it was actually 483), had a grand total of 7 interviews and received 1 offer (to be fair, I cancelled 2 of the interviews as they came after the offer). Idk where you're applying or what stage of the game you're at (grad or 3L), but 18 interviews is pretty amazing.

How confident are you in your interview skills? Is it something you objectively feel like you need to work on. I think most people on here would kill for 18 interviews, but with that said just like the posted above mentioned, this is normal. All you need is 1 offer, and sometimes you have a month of static and sometimes its a month where interview offers are rolling in. I had 1 interview prior to bar results, no one seemed to even care. Bar results came in late Oct and all of a sudden I was getting a call a week.

[Anonymous User]

3L here. Super bummed. Have been sending out applications for months and haven't heard anything back. Is it worth the time to apply for biglaw at this point? Specifically the ones with openings for junior level associates? Also, is it time to give up hope and look for non-legal jobs?

[BlueLotus]

Also, is it time to give up hope and look for non-legal jobs?

Also curious about this. When to throw in the towel and give up? One can volunteer postgrad for only so long.

[BarbellDreams]

Also, is it time to give up hope and look for non-legal jobs?

Also curious about this. When to throw in the towel and give up? One can volunteer postgrad for only so long.

What do you mean by "give up"? What is the alternative? Living with parents in basement and delivering pizza for pocket money?

The long and short of it is that unless you have some awesome non-law opportunity, I don't see why you would ever give up. Its very easy to get discouraged, and I've been there where you're sick of everything and just don't want to look for jobs anymore and watch netflix instead, but you've got loans to pay and a career to make. Getting a job is just as much luck as discipline. When you have the discipline/drive to apply, info interview, volunteer, meet people, etc. thats when luck combos with that to get you a job.

I graduated in a class of 250 from a T2. I know ONE person who didn't have a job 6 months after bar results came out. If you dont sit around watching Netflix all day and grind it out everyone gets something at some point.

[Anonymous User]

Is it worth the time to apply for biglaw at this point? Specifically the ones with openings for junior level associates?

I have similar thoughts on this. I'm assuming experience during law school doesn't count as work experience for this. Its so time consuming researching these firms.

[Anonymous User]

Also, is it time to give up hope and look for non-legal jobs?

Also curious about this. When to throw in the towel and give up? One can volunteer postgrad for only so long.

What do you mean by "give up"? What is the alternative? Living with parents in basement and delivering pizza for pocket money?

The long and short of it is that unless you have some awesome non-law opportunity, I don't see why you would ever give up. Its very easy to get discouraged, and I've been there where you're sick of everything and just don't want to look for jobs anymore and watch netflix instead, but you've got loans to pay and a career to make. Getting a job is just as much luck as discipline. When you have the discipline/drive to apply, info interview, volunteer, meet people, etc. thats when luck combos with that to get you a job.

I graduated in a class of 250 from a T2. I know ONE person who didn't have a job 6 months after bar results came out. If you dont sit around watching Netflix all day and grind it out everyone gets something at some point.

I have a 3.006 from a T30. Barred or not, employers won't exactly be lining up to get applicants like me. Only 57% of the class of 2013 got a FTLT JD-required jerb 9 months after graduation. Not everyone gets something at some point. It's just the math. More students graduate from law school each year than there are jobs available. This process is just so distressing. I can't bum off my parents and volunteer for legal aid indefinitely.