The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[worldtraveler]

rinkrat do the fellowship. I did a one year fellowship (not school funded, but kind of a similar deal) and had some great options after just one year of experience.

[BlueLotus]

I'm lucky enough to have a school post-grad fellowship, which is awesome, but like above poster, really struggling with how to use it. I'm below median, t14, legal aid and PD experience, but not interested in legal aid and not confident enough about being a PD that I want to lock-in with a year-long stint.

Career services suggested state AG's office, or working for a judge. I had never thought about clerking before, they've placed fellows with similarly mediocre grades with with district court judges. I guess this would not technically be clerking but would look similar on a resume, or could open the door to a clerkship sometime during the year or afterwards. But don't federal clerkships mostly just help for firm work, unless they're super-prestigious, like CoA or something? I honestly don't really know anything about what clerks do or what the payoff is.

I'm a d. ct. clerk.

I'd be surprised if you could just waltz into a d.ct. fellowship/volunteer clerkship/whatever it's called at this point. But, that being said, if you could do that, I would strongly recommend it. Depending on the judge, you may be treated just like the other clerks. But you could be relegated to the routine, boring stuff that no one likes doing but has to get done, so the relative value of the experience could be limited.

Although I think it's totally unjustified, the preftige of clerking (for an Article 3 judge) is real and substantial. It opens up a lot of doors. It's also a great experience that I would recommend anyone with an interest in litigation do.

If you're in a volunteer/unpaid clerkship, it it fair to call yourself a "Law Clerk"? Or should you give yourself a different title to differentiate yourself from the paid clerks?

[Anonymous User]

There was a clerk in the chambers where I worked, her CSO required her (as part of getting the money) to list it as "volunteer"/ make sure it was clear on her resume that it was unpaid.

[BVest]

For those with numbers/school anywhere within sniffing range of a clerkship, I saw a strange posting on my weekly OSCAR email yesterday:

Judge Janis Jack
United States District Court
Corpus Christi, TX
Term: 1 Year
Clerkship Type: Term Law Clerk-Chambers
Applications accepted: Feb 11, 2015 - Apr 1, 2015
Term Start: Jul 27, 2015
Application Methods: On-line

What's especially weird is that she's a Clinton appointee, so it's odd that she'd be looking this late in the game for a 2015 clerk. Also that July 27 date is the day before the Texas Bar, though her listing on OSCAR also allows for "on or about." She's not likely to get the usual batch of clerkship applicants at this point in the process, so if you have numbers that are halfway decent and are interested in clerking, give it a shot.

I concede that it could be a typo, however, if it is a typo, it is repeated several times in her full listing and it has been posted for almost a week now so I would think it would have been caught.

Here's the full listing:

Judge Janis Graham Jack

Status: Available

Clerkship Type: Term Law Clerk-Chambers

Clerkship Term: 1 Year
Term Start: July 27, 2015
Term End: July 29, 2016

Accepting Applications: Feb 11, 2015 - Apr 01, 2015

Interview Method Preferences: No Preference

Description: One-year clerkship to begin on or about July 27, 2015.
Renewable: No

City: Corpus Christi
State: Texas

Required Documents:
Resume
Cover Letter
Writing Sample
Law Grade Sheet
Undergraduate Grade Sheet

Number of Writing Samples: 1

Minimum Number of Semesters of Law School Grades Required: No Preference
Please note that for any positions with an application open date before 9/26/2014, the Minimum Number of Semesters of Law School Grades Required fields defaults to "No Preference." Do not assume that this reflects the actual preference of the judge.

Number of Recommendations Required: 3

Law Review/Journal Preferred?: No

Other Journal Preferred?: No
Moot Court Participation Preferred?: -

Bar Membership Preferred?: No

Prior Judicial Clerkship Experience Preferred?: -

Specialized Work Experience Preferred?: No

Legal Work Experience Post-Law School: -

Class Standing Preferred: No Preference

[Anonymous User]

For those with numbers/school anywhere within sniffing range of a clerkship, I saw a strange posting on my weekly OSCAR email yesterday:

Judge Janis Jack
United States District Court
Corpus Christi, TX
Term: 1 Year
Clerkship Type: Term Law Clerk-Chambers
Applications accepted: Feb 11, 2015 - Apr 1, 2015
Term Start: Jul 27, 2015
Application Methods: On-line

What's especially weird is that she's a Clinton appointee, so it's odd that she'd be looking this late in the game for a 2015 clerk. Also that July 27 date is the day before the Texas Bar, though her listing on OSCAR also allows for "on or about." She's not likely to get the usual batch of clerkship applicants at this point in the process, so if you have numbers that are halfway decent and are interested in clerking, give it a shot.

I concede that it could be a typo, however, if it is a typo, it is repeated several times in her full listing and it has been posted for almost a week now so I would think it would have been caught.

Here's the full listing:

Judge Janis Graham Jack

Status: Available

Clerkship Type: Term Law Clerk-Chambers

Clerkship Term: 1 Year
Term Start: July 27, 2015
Term End: July 29, 2016

Accepting Applications: Feb 11, 2015 - Apr 01, 2015

Interview Method Preferences: No Preference

Description: One-year clerkship to begin on or about July 27, 2015.
Renewable: No

City: Corpus Christi
State: Texas

Required Documents:
Resume
Cover Letter
Writing Sample
Law Grade Sheet
Undergraduate Grade Sheet

Number of Writing Samples: 1

Minimum Number of Semesters of Law School Grades Required: No Preference
Please note that for any positions with an application open date before 9/26/2014, the Minimum Number of Semesters of Law School Grades Required fields defaults to "No Preference." Do not assume that this reflects the actual preference of the judge.

Number of Recommendations Required: 3

Law Review/Journal Preferred?: No

Other Journal Preferred?: No
Moot Court Participation Preferred?: -

Bar Membership Preferred?: No

Prior Judicial Clerkship Experience Preferred?: -

Specialized Work Experience Preferred?: No

Legal Work Experience Post-Law School: -

Class Standing Preferred: No Preference

She has a reputation of firing her clerks often and generally being a terrible boss. I personally can't verify either of those things, but I'm just passing along a possible explanation/a warning for anyone thinking of applying.

[BlueLotus]

Is it tough to land a clerkship if you haven't had judicial internship experience? All of my internships have been direct services (PD/Legal Aid).

[BVest]

She has a reputation of firing her clerks often and generally being a terrible boss. I personally can't verify either of those things, but I'm just passing along a possible explanation/a warning for anyone thinking of applying.

I wondered if it was maybe a situation of a two-year clerk who's now leaving mid-term. The start date doesn't seem to line up with a clerk firing since she'd presumably want someone who can start ASAP. As to her rep, I can't speak to that (and wouldn't if I could).

[transferror]

Anyone know anything about hiring/competitiveness for the First Judicial District's Judicial Fellowship Program (unpaid clerkships in Philadelphia's Court of Common Pleas)? Seems to have a pretty good track record of getting fellows into paid employment, and only requires 20 hours a week, thus allowing you to have paid employment at the same time.

http://www.courts.phila.gov/jfp/

Rutgers CSO said that the overwhelming majority (I think 70-80% IIRC) of people in the program found full-time employment within 3 months. A counselor also mentioned that you only work 20 hours/week so that the rest of your time can be spent networking and sending applications, and it even sounded like many of the assigned judges would help set up informational interviews and such.

[Anonymous User]

She has a reputation of firing her clerks often and generally being a terrible boss. I personally can't verify either of those things, but I'm just passing along a possible explanation/a warning for anyone thinking of applying.

I wondered if it was maybe a situation of a two-year clerk who's now leaving mid-term. The start date doesn't seem to line up with a clerk firing since she'd presumably want someone who can start ASAP. As to her rep, I can't speak to that (and wouldn't if I could).

A two-year clerk leaving mid-term is often the result of a firing. Firing someone doesn't necessarily have to be a "pack up your stuff and leave immediately" situation.

[BlueLotus]

Anyone know anything about hiring/competitiveness for the First Judicial District's Judicial Fellowship Program (unpaid clerkships in Philadelphia's Court of Common Pleas)? Seems to have a pretty good track record of getting fellows into paid employment, and only requires 20 hours a week, thus allowing you to have paid employment at the same time.

http://www.courts.phila.gov/jfp/

Rutgers CSO said that the overwhelming majority (I think 70-80% IIRC) of people in the program found full-time employment within 3 months. A counselor also mentioned that you only work 20 hours/week so that the rest of your time can be spent networking and sending applications, and it even sounded like many of the assigned judges would help set up informational interviews and such.

Thanks. Glad to know that it's not a dead end.

Anyone else angling for state trial court clerkships?

[Anonymous User]

I'm lucky enough to have a school post-grad fellowship, which is awesome, but like above poster, really struggling with how to use it. I'm below median, t14, legal aid and PD experience, but not interested in legal aid and not confident enough about being a PD that I want to lock-in with a year-long stint.

Career services suggested state AG's office, or working for a judge. I had never thought about clerking before, they've placed fellows with similarly mediocre grades with with district court judges. I guess this would not technically be clerking but would look similar on a resume, or could open the door to a clerkship sometime during the year or afterwards. But don't federal clerkships mostly just help for firm work, unless they're super-prestigious, like CoA or something? I honestly don't really know anything about what clerks do or what the payoff is.

If you're in a volunteer/unpaid clerkship, it it fair to call yourself a "Law Clerk"? Or should you give yourself a different title to differentiate yourself from the paid clerks?

It depends. Some judges with particularly heavy dockets will have volunteer law clerks who are treated just like the other clerks. Some have volunteer law clerks who do the mundane, insignificant work.If you're the latter, I don't think it's fair to say you're a law clerk without indicating the nature of your position. Also, some judges explicitly require listing the work as volunteer, although I know of one in my court who has had volunteer clerks for years who doesn't care.

[BVest]

She has a reputation of firing her clerks often and generally being a terrible boss. I personally can't verify either of those things, but I'm just passing along a possible explanation/a warning for anyone thinking of applying.

I wondered if it was maybe a situation of a two-year clerk who's now leaving mid-term. The start date doesn't seem to line up with a clerk firing since she'd presumably want someone who can start ASAP. As to her rep, I can't speak to that (and wouldn't if I could).

A two-year clerk leaving mid-term is often the result of a firing. Firing someone doesn't necessarily have to be a "pack up your stuff and leave immediately" situation.

Fair enough. My guess -- again without any information on which to base it -- was a pregnancy.

[Anonymous User]

Fair enough. My guess -- again without any information on which to base it -- was a pregnancy.

Well, as long as we're gonna throw out our best guess--I think the clerk realized he made a huge mistake letting Emma go off to Paris for that year-long internship without him, and decided if he left right now, he just might be able to catch her at the airport.

[rinkrat19]

As you may remember, I am inquiring about interest in hosting a funded fellow.

I've already gotten back very interested-sounding replies from two non-profits on the court-appointed defense side of things. Might have to fly home to interview with one (sheesh, you'd think a non-profit would understand the need to save money and use Skype). Still crossing my fingers on the DA.

[Anonymous User]

What do you post-grad/post-bar valers do during the day?

Besides looking everywhere for jobs and sending out mass e-mails (not a single response btw), I don't know what to do with myself. I've applied to a few unpaid positions and never got a response. Luckily I'm not in much debt, so money hasn't been a huge worry, though I'm wondering if I should look harder for a temp position somewhere (non-legal) just to fill my time? This is pretty depressing.

[Anonymous User]

What do you post-grad/post-bar valers do during the day?

Besides looking everywhere for jobs and sending out mass e-mails (not a single response btw), I don't know what to do with myself. I've applied to a few unpaid positions and never got a response. Luckily I'm not in much debt, so money hasn't been a huge worry, though I'm wondering if I should look harder for a temp position somewhere (non-legal) just to fill my time? This is pretty depressing.

Take on at least a volunteer legal position to keep up your skills/resume. Also, do contract work/respond to postings looking for a law clerk (2L/3L) and perhaps do that for 15-20 hrs/week.

[Anonymous User]

Interviewed for an amazing job last week and got the rejection email this evening. I'm pretty crushed. It's now 10 months post-graduation and I'm still unemployed. Some of it is timing for the particular field I want to work in, but still! It's starting to wear on me.

[Anonymous User]

Interviewed for an amazing job last week and got the rejection email this evening. I'm pretty crushed. It's now 10 months post-graduation and I'm still unemployed. Some of it is timing for the particular field I want to work in, but still! It's starting to wear on me.

In the same boat, except I'm getting even fewer bites.

[Anonymous User]

What do you post-grad/post-bar valers do during the day?

Besides looking everywhere for jobs and sending out mass e-mails (not a single response btw), I don't know what to do with myself. I've applied to a few unpaid positions and never got a response. Luckily I'm not in much debt, so money hasn't been a huge worry, though I'm wondering if I should look harder for a temp position somewhere (non-legal) just to fill my time? This is pretty depressing.

Take on at least a volunteer legal position to keep up your skills/resume. Also, do contract work/respond to postings looking for a law clerk (2L/3L) and perhaps do that for 15-20 hrs/week.

Any advice on where to look for flexible volunteer legal positions?

The problem I've run into is that there aren't as many legal volunteer opportunities where I live. I'd certainly move anywhere in the state for a paying job, but there's no fucking way I'd relocate to do volunteer work...

[UndecidedMN]

Check your local legal-aid. They are always looking for someone.

[BlueLotus]

What do you post-grad/post-bar valers do during the day?

Besides looking everywhere for jobs and sending out mass e-mails (not a single response btw), I don't know what to do with myself. I've applied to a few unpaid positions and never got a response. Luckily I'm not in much debt, so money hasn't been a huge worry, though I'm wondering if I should look harder for a temp position somewhere (non-legal) just to fill my time? This is pretty depressing.

Take on at least a volunteer legal position to keep up your skills/resume. Also, do contract work/respond to postings looking for a law clerk (2L/3L) and perhaps do that for 15-20 hrs/week.

Any advice on where to look for flexible volunteer legal positions?

The problem I've run into is that there aren't as many legal volunteer opportunities where I live. I'd certainly move anywhere in the state for a paying job, but there's no fucking way I'd relocate to do volunteer work...

Check out PSJD and Idealist for legal volunteer opps where you live.

[JJDancer]

What do you post-grad/post-bar valers do during the day?

Besides looking everywhere for jobs and sending out mass e-mails (not a single response btw), I don't know what to do with myself. I've applied to a few unpaid positions and never got a response. Luckily I'm not in much debt, so money hasn't been a huge worry, though I'm wondering if I should look harder for a temp position somewhere (non-legal) just to fill my time? This is pretty depressing.

Take on at least a volunteer legal position to keep up your skills/resume. Also, do contract work/respond to postings looking for a law clerk (2L/3L) and perhaps do that for 15-20 hrs/week.

Any advice on where to look for flexible volunteer legal positions?

The problem I've run into is that there aren't as many legal volunteer opportunities where I live. I'd certainly move anywhere in the state for a paying job, but there's no fucking way I'd relocate to do volunteer work...

Just look up public service orgs in your town/city and send in cold emails saying you would like to volunteer. In a smaller city they may not be advertising for volunteers but that doesn't mean you can't offer. Is your school in the same town? I'm sure they have a list.

[Anonymous User]

Hey y'all, I finally just got out of the vale and I wanted to quickly share my story to hopefully make some of you feel better. I'm a 2014 grad from a mediocre T50 law school. I had to move out of my school's primary market due to outside issues and have been searching ever since graduation in a totally different region. I finally landed a job in state government a few weeks ago that pays pretty well, with full benefits. It's a JD-preferred job, so although I passed the bar in this state, I didn't technically need it.

Here is where I hope I can help:

(1) The job is in a field I specialized in during law school, but I am the quintessential K-JD student with a humanities undergrad degree. This means that if I can get a law-related job, literally any of you can. My recommendation is to drop the lawyer-or-bust mentality and apply to any law-related jobs you find interesting.

(2) Moreover, I applied cold, not knowing anyone in the agency, and just got lucky. Luck plays a huge role in this shitty process.

(3) I am one of those poor bastards who have only had 6-8 interviews since graduation, despite trying for many more. You never know when it will happen for you.

(4) Finally, I applied for the job in early October, and didn't get the offer until late January. Things can take a long time, so try not to get discouraged by the fucking dead silence that so many asshole employers are fond of these days.

Until now, I've had pretty frequent breakdowns, worrying about my career, my future, $$ etc. I absolutely know the discouraging nature of this shit, and I want y'all to know that it only takes one lucky break to get from application to offer. A few weeks ago, I really did feel like the chasm between interview and job offer was insurmountable. But try and stay upbeat--it can happen at any moment. I really hope this helps somebody.

[JJDancer]

Congrats anon and thanks for the encouragement!

I haven't looked at any JDpreferred nonlawyer jobs, probably because I have no idea what those are.
Can you share some examples? thanks!

[Pleasye]

Congrats on the job anon!