The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 16, 2017 5:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hello. So post-final meltdown OP here. I ended up staying in my clinic office for another thirty minutes before going home and spent the rest of the day in bed. I feel a little embarrassed now that it's the next day, but thought that I should post a response. First, I want to thank you all for your encouraging responses. It did make me feel better a little. Second, I guess I kind of want to apologize again for posting my meltdown on here. I've been keeping it together all year, just telling myself "Something will turn up before school is over, something will turn up before school is over", and everyone I know, from my school's career services office, to partners I've met through networking events, to my friends, have all been telling me, "You have really good credentials and a great resume - you'll find something in no time!", so when I finished my last final still sans job, I think it just kind of hit me like a brick wall. I feel bad now for airing this because I know that this thread doesn't need any more anxiety than it already has, so again, I really apologize.

In terms of approaching job search and my application; I've served on the exec board on two student groups, and I'm on a journal. I actually wrote a note that was published in one of the student journals at my school. I've worked in legal internships my past two summers. My Achilles' heel has been my grades. I finished just under 3.0 my 1L year, which kind of started the whole downward spiral that has been my ensuing law school career. My grades have improved over the years, but they are not stellar. I honestly don't care about big law/small firm at all; I just really want a job. The reason why I mentioned that in my previous post I guess was just kind of to paint a picture of the environment I'm in. I know that I shouldn't compare myself to other people, and to be honest, I never really cared about the whole big law lifestyle; but it's just been really hard not to compare myself to others when everyone I know has a big law position, and I'm scrambling to just secure ANY position. Ironically enough though, the three interviews I got above were all with Big Law firms. I've been sending applications to EVERYTHING I can find - legal, big or small size firms, boutiques, consulting firms, banks, regulatory practices. And it's only been Big Law firms which have expressed interest, which has been a weird twist of fate. I've been looking at positions on Symplicity, and just cold-emailing people directly through the contact info provided on firms. Are there any other resources or sites that I should be looking at? I would actually like to know if there's a good database for smaller sized firms or midsize firms, because my school, being upper-tier, has great resources with regards to big law, but almost NO info with regards to even mid-size firms :cry: If there are resources people can direct me to, I would definitely appreciate it. Also, I've been sending in my resume, transcript, and a writing sample. Should I just not send my transcript in? Would hiring people find that suspicious?

Thank you again for all the support guys. Like honestly, it has really, really been helpful. Thank you.


2016 T6 who graduated without a job while seemingly everyone else had BigLaw:

I felt exactly the same way.

I subsequently discovered that more people than I had thought didn't have anything lined up. So for starters, know you FEEL like it's just you but there are many others in your boat. Like you, I didn't do well first semester. Got a B- and I still blame that for my striking out for BigLaw.

The commenter who said that you need to focus on the bar is 100% correct.The job market felt incredibly stagnant until around October/November. I know that's not what you want to hear but that's what I saw. At that point, firms/government agencies know that Bar results are coming out. They wait so they know that they'll hire someone who passed. It really helps to pass.

Keep in mind that although a lot of people have jobs lined up, not all of them start on September 1st. A lot of people defer and firms stagger their start dates. I ended up getting a job in November and ended up starting before many of my BigLaw brethren. You're not unemployed. You will find a job. It'll take time and it's frustrating to be in a world where you feel like you failed by not getting a job offer two years before you could even work. Take your mindset out of the legal/law school world for a second. Almost no other field operates this way. Relax. Focus on the bar and keep applying. You'll get there soon.

I know you asked for mid-law advice, but I know empathy really helped me.

PS: Look into government work, too.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 16, 2017 5:36 pm

Thank you so much for this. Can you let us know what job you ended up at and how you came by it? Just graduated and feeling frustrated by interviews and unemployment.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 17, 2017 11:39 am

any advice for people who have loan payments coming up and no job lined up? :cry:

grixxlybear99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby grixxlybear99 » Wed May 17, 2017 11:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:any advice for people who have loan payments coming up and no job lined up? :cry:


Apply for PAYE or REPAYE through studentloans.gov

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 17, 2017 11:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:Thank you so much for this. Can you let us know what job you ended up at and how you came by it? Just graduated and feeling frustrated by interviews and unemployment.

I ended up with a government job. It's local and the pay is obviously a lot less than the BigLaw than I originally thought I was entitled to, but overall I'm quite happy. It's a calm interesting job with normal hours and potentially good exit options.

I didn't do anything different than what you're doing. I continued applying to all jobs I found (probably even less dillefently than you) and eventually one panned out. To be a snob for a second, you have to appreciate that you are still a really good candidate. You went to a very good school and employers still appreciate that. Most of the people who graduated with me without a job may have "struggled" for a few months but eventually got something that they are somewhat proud of.

I agree with others that you should look at the fellowships as a last resort. It's a great fallback to have in your arsenal. A T6 graduate who is licensed and has one year of fellowship experience is a good candidate, too. The pay for that year will suck and you'll still spend the next 12 months looking for the next job, but it is an option you should consider. You're in MUCH better shape than a lot of others.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 18, 2017 12:01 pm

Well, I'm pretty sure I got no-offered. Firm I worked for last summer has been dragging their feet in extending me (and the other summers) any offers. None of us have heard back as of yet. I've been applying for other jobs and gotten interviews, but no other offers yet. Hoping to escape the veil shortly.

EDIT: Not going to out the firm, but it's midlaw. Each office takes on a handful of summers each year. AFAIK none have heard anything yet.

SUPERCHEF
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby SUPERCHEF » Fri May 19, 2017 12:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thank you so much for this. Can you let us know what job you ended up at and how you came by it? Just graduated and feeling frustrated by interviews and unemployment.

I ended up with a government job. It's local and the pay is obviously a lot less than the BigLaw than I originally thought I was entitled to, but overall I'm quite happy. It's a calm interesting job with normal hours and potentially good exit options.


Out of curiosity, would you mind sharing what kind of gov't job? Like city staff attorney?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 22, 2017 12:03 pm

SUPERCHEF wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thank you so much for this. Can you let us know what job you ended up at and how you came by it? Just graduated and feeling frustrated by interviews and unemployment.

I ended up with a government job. It's local and the pay is obviously a lot less than the BigLaw than I originally thought I was entitled to, but overall I'm quite happy. It's a calm interesting job with normal hours and potentially good exit options.


Out of curiosity, would you mind sharing what kind of gov't job? Like city staff attorney?


GC within a big city agency. Makes for an interesting day

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 22, 2017 4:14 pm

Alright can I enter the Vale yet? Not sure if I'm supposed to wait until I begin 3L. I'm a rising 3L at T30 about to start shitty summer job in a few weeks after striking out at OCI and mass mailing. Really down today because it feels like everyone in my class has been posting on social media "first day at Sidley!" or "having a blast at Skadden!" Literally feels like everyone has a cool SA gig in a cool city except me. Can't stop thinking about how my classmates will be bringing in $3,000+ per week while I'll be lucky to make that the entire summer, and so on.

Also, shitty summer job will not lead to any long term opportunities, so I'm curious what I should start doing now if I want a legal job after graduation. I don't have terrible grades. Top 1/3 gpa, no journal, a few externships with financial companies, KJD.

Sorry if this feels like depressed complaining and whining because it probably is. Anyone have any tips for dealing with this mindset?

Pokemon
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pokemon » Mon May 22, 2017 6:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Alright can I enter the Vale yet? Not sure if I'm supposed to wait until I begin 3L. I'm a rising 3L at T30 about to start shitty summer job in a few weeks after striking out at OCI and mass mailing. Really down today because it feels like everyone in my class has been posting on social media "first day at Sidley!" or "having a blast at Skadden!" Literally feels like everyone has a cool SA gig in a cool city except me. Can't stop thinking about how my classmates will be bringing in $3,000+ per week while I'll be lucky to make that the entire summer, and so on.

Also, shitty summer job will not lead to any long term opportunities, so I'm curious what I should start doing now if I want a legal job after graduation. I don't have terrible grades. Top 1/3 gpa, no journal, a few externships with financial companies, KJD.

Sorry if this feels like depressed complaining and whining because it probably is. Anyone have any tips for dealing with this mindset?


Fine to feel depressed at times, but I have been posting on this site for a few years and a lot of people have been in your shoes and ended up ok. You should stop comparing yourself to others though even if difficult at times. Your best bet is to prepare for 3l oci and mass mail. Also, apply to gov and state agencies.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 22, 2017 6:19 pm

Pokemon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Alright can I enter the Vale yet? Not sure if I'm supposed to wait until I begin 3L. I'm a rising 3L at T30 about to start shitty summer job in a few weeks after striking out at OCI and mass mailing. Really down today because it feels like everyone in my class has been posting on social media "first day at Sidley!" or "having a blast at Skadden!" Literally feels like everyone has a cool SA gig in a cool city except me. Can't stop thinking about how my classmates will be bringing in $3,000+ per week while I'll be lucky to make that the entire summer, and so on.

Also, shitty summer job will not lead to any long term opportunities, so I'm curious what I should start doing now if I want a legal job after graduation. I don't have terrible grades. Top 1/3 gpa, no journal, a few externships with financial companies, KJD.

Sorry if this feels like depressed complaining and whining because it probably is. Anyone have any tips for dealing with this mindset?


Fine to feel depressed at times, but I have been posting on this site for a few years and a lot of people have been in your shoes and ended up ok. You should stop comparing yourself to others though even if difficult at times. Your best bet is to prepare for 3l oci and mass mail. Also, apply to gov and state agencies.


How do you go about mass mailing when you're a rising 3L? Are you applying for a summer associate position for next summer or simply an associate position? Do you have an example of a cover letter that someone in my position would use? I guess I'm just confused about the wording of the application and what you're actually applying for.

Pokemon
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pokemon » Mon May 22, 2017 6:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Pokemon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Alright can I enter the Vale yet? Not sure if I'm supposed to wait until I begin 3L. I'm a rising 3L at T30 about to start shitty summer job in a few weeks after striking out at OCI and mass mailing. Really down today because it feels like everyone in my class has been posting on social media "first day at Sidley!" or "having a blast at Skadden!" Literally feels like everyone has a cool SA gig in a cool city except me. Can't stop thinking about how my classmates will be bringing in $3,000+ per week while I'll be lucky to make that the entire summer, and so on.

Also, shitty summer job will not lead to any long term opportunities, so I'm curious what I should start doing now if I want a legal job after graduation. I don't have terrible grades. Top 1/3 gpa, no journal, a few externships with financial companies, KJD.

Sorry if this feels like depressed complaining and whining because it probably is. Anyone have any tips for dealing with this mindset?


Fine to feel depressed at times, but I have been posting on this site for a few years and a lot of people have been in your shoes and ended up ok. You should stop comparing yourself to others though even if difficult at times. Your best bet is to prepare for 3l oci and mass mail. Also, apply to gov and state agencies.


How do you go about mass mailing when you're a rising 3L? Are you applying for a summer associate position for next summer or simply an associate position? Do you have an example of a cover letter that someone in my position would use? I guess I'm just confused about the wording of the application and what you're actually applying for.



Apply for first year positions. You have to be a bit more specific when applying for first year since you cannot apply to the firm as a whole but must apply to specific group. I would create a narrative based on your interest or geographic location and then use that to mass mail (I would wait for this until fall). Also check law firms and simplicity since they might have new job openings. Apply to 1st and 2nd year positions, but you will probably receive no traction for anything above that. Let your ocs know you are searching and stay on their radar.


Also, do not forget clerkships. Most of federal might be out, but semi decent bk courts still in.

Also fed positions and state positions and even city positions or semi-public positions like port authorities etc.

Take easy but strategic classes as a 3l that will allow you to build a narrative and also give you enough time to apply. Applications > 3l classes.

No example with of cover letters with me, but there are online ones. If you want to pm your current one I can take a look tomorrow.

deepwater
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby deepwater » Mon May 22, 2017 10:20 pm

:D out of the Vale! Got a government job in the city I wanted. Thanks everyone for the support and encouragement. After getting no-offered the first day of classes I went all year thinking I'd never get a job. Just before the last final of law school I got the offer. What a great feeling.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 22, 2017 11:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Pokemon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Alright can I enter the Vale yet? Not sure if I'm supposed to wait until I begin 3L. I'm a rising 3L at T30 about to start shitty summer job in a few weeks after striking out at OCI and mass mailing. Really down today because it feels like everyone in my class has been posting on social media "first day at Sidley!" or "having a blast at Skadden!" Literally feels like everyone has a cool SA gig in a cool city except me. Can't stop thinking about how my classmates will be bringing in $3,000+ per week while I'll be lucky to make that the entire summer, and so on.

Also, shitty summer job will not lead to any long term opportunities, so I'm curious what I should start doing now if I want a legal job after graduation. I don't have terrible grades. Top 1/3 gpa, no journal, a few externships with financial companies, KJD.

Sorry if this feels like depressed complaining and whining because it probably is. Anyone have any tips for dealing with this mindset?


Fine to feel depressed at times, but I have been posting on this site for a few years and a lot of people have been in your shoes and ended up ok. You should stop comparing yourself to others though even if difficult at times. Your best bet is to prepare for 3l oci and mass mail. Also, apply to gov and state agencies.


How do you go about mass mailing when you're a rising 3L? Are you applying for a summer associate position for next summer or simply an associate position? Do you have an example of a cover letter that someone in my position would use? I guess I'm just confused about the wording of the application and what you're actually applying for.



I was in a fairly similar position entering 3L and managed to land a dream full-time gig as a 3L through a combination of mass-mailing and networking. The key for me, as Pokemon alluded to, was becoming THE guy for my area of interest and narrowly tailoring my resume and cover letter to that specific practice group while applying broadly to anyone with a good practice in that area. Feel free to PM me for more details if you need. It's a long haul, but totally doable

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 23, 2017 6:13 pm

I don’t know if it’s too early to start posting on here but I’ve legit already started losing sleep over not having a job when I graduate. If anyone has advice on a 3L job hunt timeline I’d be forever grateful. :(

Here’s my situation: I’m a rising 3L at a T20 school. I didn’t do journal but I did do moot court and mock trial. My GPA is decent (above a 3.5) but I don’t know my class rank since my school doesn’t do that. This summer I’m working for a state supreme court judge in the state I want to work in (she’s not hiring clerks for next year so I won’t be able to do much with that). I know some of the advice on here has suggested holding off mass mailing till the fall but my school is out of state so I feel like while I’m here I should be doing something. Only problem is I don’t know what.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Honestly reading through some of these earlier posts has been v helpful. Thanks!!

Pokemon
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pokemon » Tue May 23, 2017 8:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I don’t know if it’s too early to start posting on here but I’ve legit already started losing sleep over not having a job when I graduate. If anyone has advice on a 3L job hunt timeline I’d be forever grateful. :(

Here’s my situation: I’m a rising 3L at a T20 school. I didn’t do journal but I did do moot court and mock trial. My GPA is decent (above a 3.5) but I don’t know my class rank since my school doesn’t do that. This summer I’m working for a state supreme court judge in the state I want to work in (she’s not hiring clerks for next year so I won’t be able to do much with that). I know some of the advice on here has suggested holding off mass mailing till the fall but my school is out of state so I feel like while I’m here I should be doing something. Only problem is I don’t know what.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Honestly reading through some of these earlier posts has been v helpful. Thanks!!



Try networking particularly if your state is not a state that has a lot of biglaw. Set up coffee dates with attorneys in your area.

Also, you can apply for next year if there are larger firms in your state. Set up your cover letter to mention that you want to be in their state and that you are currently working in that state and available to meet at their convenience.

This advise does not apply so well if from ny, but it can work for other states.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 26, 2017 1:20 am

Hey guys, I have a question that I could use some advice on. I've recently graduated from a T9 and just started studying for the bar. After graduation, I've sent out a mad wave of cold emails to every single place I can find. I got a response back from one of the firms. The recruiter from the firm told me that while they are not hiring attorneys at the moment, they are in the process of hiring paralegals and asked if I would like to be considered for the position. Should I keep myself in consideration for the position? What is the general perspective on paralegal gigs? I honestly don't care if I start as a paralegal, but I am trying to think long-term and think about exit options. Would it be easy/hard for me to transition as an attorney after starting as a paralegal? Thanks in advance.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pokemon » Fri May 26, 2017 7:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:Hey guys, I have a question that I could use some advice on. I've recently graduated from a T9 and just started studying for the bar. After graduation, I've sent out a mad wave of cold emails to every single place I can find. I got a response back from one of the firms. The recruiter from the firm told me that while they are not hiring attorneys at the moment, they are in the process of hiring paralegals and asked if I would like to be considered for the position. Should I keep myself in consideration for the position? What is the general perspective on paralegal gigs? I honestly don't care if I start as a paralegal, but I am trying to think long-term and think about exit options. Would it be easy/hard for me to transition as an attorney after starting as a paralegal? Thanks in advance.


Do not do this. Also, what is a T9?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri May 26, 2017 7:53 am

Yeah, working as a paralegal after you get your JD is considered the kiss of death for getting lawyer work after. Frankly it's weird to me that the recruiter would even ask if you want to be considered as a paralegal.

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TooMuchTuna
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TooMuchTuna » Fri May 26, 2017 8:31 am

Pokemon wrote: Also, what is a T9?


I'm assuming Michigan or UVA.




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