The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:05 pm

Hey guys,

I was wondering if I could get your advice. About a week ago I reached out to an alum partner at a regional big firm (via mm), (with a resume). The partner e-mailed me back and seemed pleased at my letter and experience (I worked in a relevant industry for a few years prior to law school), and said that he would send over my information to the firm's HR, and I should hear back from them. Its been a bit over a week, and radio silence. Should I follow-up with the partner? The HR? Already dinged? Any advice?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:38 pm

Out of the Vale! That was a long, painful slog. 3L job hunting sucked more than I could have possibly imagined. But, thank god, it's over.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Out of the Vale! That was a long, painful slog. 3L job hunting sucked more than I could have possibly imagined. But, thank god, it's over.


Congrats! Care to provide more info? What type of job is this and how did you get it (MM/Simplicity/Networking, etc.)?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Out of the Vale! That was a long, painful slog. 3L job hunting sucked more than I could have possibly imagined. But, thank god, it's over.


Congrats! Care to provide more info? What type of job is this and how did you get it (MM/Simplicity/Networking, etc.)?

It's a job doing impact lit, and I found it through a job posting site. I think it was either Idealist or PSJD.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lincoln » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:58 am

andythefir wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi OP, here. Thank you for the summary. This unfortunately leaves me in a bit of predicament tho, because I am international and I would need to secure a job by September, or else I'd get deported. Am I out of luck? :cry:


I'd look for the most desperate offices in desperate places. Rural mountain west DAs and PDs.


This is not great advice. Many (most?) DA offices require you to be a citizen.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby SFSpartan » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:36 pm

Quarles & Brady is looking for an entry level Business Law Associate (transactional) in Milwaukee. Currently working a deal across from this firm (different office) and can attest to the fact that they are (mostly) good attorneys.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Sprout » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:31 pm

Does anyone have any pro tips for surviving this vale?

I can't anymore. Every job op leads to a No. Anyone have any coping strategies or insight?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ernie » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:46 pm

Sprout wrote:Does anyone have any pro tips for surviving this vale?

I can't anymore. Every job op leads to a No. Anyone have any coping strategies or insight?

Only way out is through. Applying to jobs is a huge investment of time, and when you're not getting any bites it seems like you're doing it all for nothing. But it only takes one offer. Keep telling yourself that, and don't let off the gas.

What are you looking to do? Firm/PI/Gov't?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:16 pm

ernie wrote:
Sprout wrote:Does anyone have any pro tips for surviving this vale?

I can't anymore. Every job op leads to a No. Anyone have any coping strategies or insight?

Only way out is through. Applying to jobs is a huge investment of time, and when you're not getting any bites it seems like you're doing it all for nothing. But it only takes one offer. Keep telling yourself that, and don't let off the gas.

What are you looking to do? Firm/PI/Gov't?


This is super important. Keep applying. At one point someone will say yes.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby andythefir » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:23 pm

Lincoln wrote:
andythefir wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi OP, here. Thank you for the summary. This unfortunately leaves me in a bit of predicament tho, because I am international and I would need to secure a job by September, or else I'd get deported. Am I out of luck? :cry:


I'd look for the most desperate offices in desperate places. Rural mountain west DAs and PDs.


This is not great advice. Many (most?) DA offices require you to be a citizen.


I've worked in 3 in 2 states and have never heard of a citizenship requirement. Certainly true for AUSA positions, but not for state prosecutors in the mountain west.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Sprout » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:23 am

ernie wrote:
Sprout wrote:Does anyone have any pro tips for surviving this vale?

I can't anymore. Every job op leads to a No. Anyone have any coping strategies or insight?

Only way out is through. Applying to jobs is a huge investment of time, and when you're not getting any bites it seems like you're doing it all for nothing. But it only takes one offer. Keep telling yourself that, and don't let off the gas.

What are you looking to do? Firm/PI/Gov't?



Re: bolded and general advice, thank you Ernie. You're right.

I'm looking for anything. Literally. But mostly right now applying to smaller/mid sized firms that hire on a rolling or need basis.

ETA: Sent out probably over 700 mass mails. Started sending out physical snail mail apps (CL/resume) to some small places and actually did get an interview that way. Just seems like even if I get an interview it never works out. Never felt more discouraged in my life.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ernie » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:14 pm

Sprout wrote:
ernie wrote:
Sprout wrote:Does anyone have any pro tips for surviving this vale?

I can't anymore. Every job op leads to a No. Anyone have any coping strategies or insight?

Only way out is through. Applying to jobs is a huge investment of time, and when you're not getting any bites it seems like you're doing it all for nothing. But it only takes one offer. Keep telling yourself that, and don't let off the gas.

What are you looking to do? Firm/PI/Gov't?



Re: bolded and general advice, thank you Ernie. You're right.

I'm looking for anything. Literally. But mostly right now applying to smaller/mid sized firms that hire on a rolling or need basis.

ETA: Sent out probably over 700 mass mails. Started sending out physical snail mail apps (CL/resume) to some small places and actually did get an interview that way. Just seems like even if I get an interview it never works out. Never felt more discouraged in my life.

When you apply to these jobs, are you leveraging your network? If you're applying in the same region where you attend law school, you're likely well connected—between clinical professors, lawyers you've worked with in internships/externships, colleagues and mentors from your summer jobs, people you've met at networking events, etc. Do they know you're looking? They might be able to put in a good word/make calls, connect you to the right people, and/or let you know about opportunities you might not have found otherwise.

I sent out hundreds of apps when I was in the Vale, but I only got three interviews. Two of them were from leveraging my network. In one case, someone in my network knew I was job hunting and told me about an opportunity that I hadn't heard about; when I expressed interest he made a call for me. In the other case, I applied to a job and asked one of my contacts to put in a good word (I got the job). Speaking from the PI side, having a contact who can help you get a foot in the door can make a huge difference (and if you don't have a contact, you can always make one).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:29 pm

Hi, future Valer here needing advice. I have a connection who will be starting with a big firm. I have already emailed the hiring partner as well as submitted my application online for a position in the IP practice group. And my connection has followed up with her own email to the partner. It's been a week with no response, to either one of us. Should I give it another week? Follow up?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby quirky » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:45 pm

So the vale sucks.

But Littler Mendelson - Austin is hiring an entry level associate.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi, future Valer here needing advice. I have a connection who will be starting with a big firm. I have already emailed the hiring partner as well as submitted my application online for a position in the IP practice group. And my connection has followed up with her own email to the partner. It's been a week with no response, to either one of us. Should I give it another week? Follow up?


I'm only a 2L, but you should probably give it some more time

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:43 pm

Out of the vale! Thank you for the encouragement you guys provided during this difficult time for all of us. I hope to stick around and help others on here.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pokemon » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi, future Valer here needing advice. I have a connection who will be starting with a big firm. I have already emailed the hiring partner as well as submitted my application online for a position in the IP practice group. And my connection has followed up with her own email to the partner. It's been a week with no response, to either one of us. Should I give it another week? Follow up?


I'm only a 2L, but you should probably give it some more time



Agree. Pushing too much can come off.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pokemon » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:52 am

Sprout wrote:Does anyone have any pro tips for surviving this vale?

I can't anymore. Every job op leads to a No. Anyone have any coping strategies or insight?



Keep applying. You only need one and it can come from the most unexpected place. Also, keep open communication with school, friends etc, try to stay on their radar that you are looking for something.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby deepwater » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:41 pm

Still in the vale, but have had some interviews for government/judicial openings. We'll see what happens. feeling hopeful though.

I got some solace from a friend who said the best thing I can do between now and October is network once a week and then apply in earnest after I take the bar, since that's the next hiring season. That put things into perspective and calmed the anxiety a bit.

Nevertheless, the vale still sucks and I'm looking forward to being out one day.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ernie » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:42 pm

deepwater wrote:Still in the vale, but have had some interviews for government/judicial openings. We'll see what happens. feeling hopeful though.

I got some solace from a friend who said the best thing I can do between now and October is network once a week and then apply in earnest after I take the bar, since that's the next hiring season. That put things into perspective and calmed the anxiety a bit.

Nevertheless, the vale still sucks and I'm looking forward to being out one day.

I'd keep on applying during the spring and summer. People are getting hired for entry level legal positions now, as this thread attests to. You mentioned government and judicial openings; there are a handful of judges still hiring for the 2017-2018 term, and in NYC at least, some municipal agencies hire over the summer for a September start.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ernie » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Out of the vale! Thank you for the encouragement you guys provided during this difficult time for all of us. I hope to stick around and help others on here.

Grats!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Sprout » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:17 pm

ernie wrote:
deepwater wrote:Still in the vale, but have had some interviews for government/judicial openings. We'll see what happens. feeling hopeful though.

I got some solace from a friend who said the best thing I can do between now and October is network once a week and then apply in earnest after I take the bar, since that's the next hiring season. That put things into perspective and calmed the anxiety a bit.

Nevertheless, the vale still sucks and I'm looking forward to being out one day.

I'd keep on applying during the spring and summer. People are getting hired for entry level legal positions now, as this thread attests to. You mentioned government and judicial openings; there are a handful of judges still hiring for the 2017-2018 term, and in NYC at least, some municipal agencies hire over the summer for a September start.

First off thank you for bolded because it did help me.

Problem though Ernie at least for me is the not having a job thing is making it so much harder and discouraging to study for the bar. I could almost guarantee I wouldn't be quite the anxious wreck going into this summer and studying for the bar if I knew I had a job. So I feel like time might be better spent not crazy mass mailing/applying etc and just studying. Obv Im not saying people shouldn't apply, or not to network (this I think would be the best because it could a social event if you join a bar association in your area/group/whatever, and could be a reprieve from stress and studying when necessary while also being beneficial), but the job question mark and continuous discouraging hustle at trying to obtain a job has made me noticably more scattered re: bar prep.

I dk if that made sense so apologies. Ive been watching too much Trump, I might have forgotten sentence structure

eta: or maybe the vale is literally a vale and I cant see well enough to type or proofread. Either way. Congrats deepwater

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:21 am

Pokemon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi, future Valer here needing advice. I have a connection who will be starting with a big firm. I have already emailed the hiring partner as well as submitted my application online for a position in the IP practice group. And my connection has followed up with her own email to the partner. It's been a week with no response, to either one of us. Should I give it another week? Follow up?


I'm only a 2L, but you should probably give it some more time



Agree. Pushing too much can come off.


I'd like to hear others' thoughts on pushing/being pushy. I feel like recently, the advice has been to be pushy (not on here, but what I've heard personally). Anyone?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby andythefir » Mon May 01, 2017 9:00 pm

Sprout wrote:Problem though Ernie at least for me is the not having a job thing is making it so much harder and discouraging to study for the bar. I could almost guarantee I wouldn't be quite the anxious wreck going into this summer and studying for the bar if I knew I had a job. So I feel like time might be better spent not crazy mass mailing/applying etc and just studying. Obv Im not saying people shouldn't apply, or not to network (this I think would be the best because it could a social event if you join a bar association in your area/group/whatever, and could be a reprieve from stress and studying when necessary while also being beneficial), but the job question mark and continuous discouraging hustle at trying to obtain a job has made me noticably more scattered re: bar prep.

I dk if that made sense so apologies. Ive been watching too much Trump, I might have forgotten sentence structure

eta: or maybe the vale is literally a vale and I cant see well enough to type or proofread. Either way. Congrats deepwater


I'd actually rather not have a job during bar prep. You think it's stressful to think about prolonging the job search for a few months, imagine the pressure of knowing you'll lose the job you scrambled to get if you fail. Plus some jobs (like mine) ask you to work full time while studying, thereby making failure more likely. Try to put yourself in that headspace: the consequences for failure are a few more months in a place where you already are, instead of being fired and having to start from scratch, get a new lease, etc.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pokemon » Mon May 01, 2017 9:19 pm

andythefir wrote:
Sprout wrote:Problem though Ernie at least for me is the not having a job thing is making it so much harder and discouraging to study for the bar. I could almost guarantee I wouldn't be quite the anxious wreck going into this summer and studying for the bar if I knew I had a job. So I feel like time might be better spent not crazy mass mailing/applying etc and just studying. Obv Im not saying people shouldn't apply, or not to network (this I think would be the best because it could a social event if you join a bar association in your area/group/whatever, and could be a reprieve from stress and studying when necessary while also being beneficial), but the job question mark and continuous discouraging hustle at trying to obtain a job has made me noticably more scattered re: bar prep.

I dk if that made sense so apologies. Ive been watching too much Trump, I might have forgotten sentence structure

eta: or maybe the vale is literally a vale and I cant see well enough to type or proofread. Either way. Congrats deepwater


I'd actually rather not have a job during bar prep. You think it's stressful to think about prolonging the job search for a few months, imagine the pressure of knowing you'll lose the job you scrambled to get if you fail. Plus some jobs (like mine) ask you to work full time while studying, thereby making failure more likely. Try to put yourself in that headspace: the consequences for failure are a few more months in a place where you already are, instead of being fired and having to start from scratch, get a new lease, etc.


I graduated some time ago but think this is the wrong approach. Getting a job is much harder than passing the bar.




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