Patent Litigation Firms (NY): Help me decide! Forum

[Anonymous User]

Also received a callback invitation to Skadden (NY). Would you consider going to Skadden for patent lit over these three firms?

[Big Shrimpin]

OPs question depends upon a number of factors, each of which vary depending upon individual preferences.

First, there's size. As others have intimated ITT, Demarsais is pretty small, Skadden/PW are huge, and Fitzpatrick isn't small, but it is certainly not big. Each of these environments will feel different, attorneys will be staffed differently, etc. The much larger firms tend to feel less tight-knit. To be sure, however, there will be departments that are tighter than others, but firm size is something to consider. Moreover, I'm not sure about PW/Skadden, but their patent lit departments might be really big/super small, so that's another issue to consider.

Second, there's the work. As others have also intimated, Demarsais has a very particular type of practice. Fitzpatrick does just about everything but specializes in Hatch-Waxman litigation. I'm not sure about PW/Skadden, however, but I would imagine they probably do a bit of everything. You obviously don't want to work at a firm that either doesn't deal in the technology/practice that you're interested in, or, alternatively, has merely 1 or 2 of attorneys doing that type of work.

Third, there's rankings. Vault is really corporate-centric, so I don't think Vault is very helpful in ranking patent litigation shops/departments. I like to use Chambers as a general gauge for relative practice strength. IIRC, these rankings are based upon client feedback, so each firm's practice area is represented as a function of reputation amongst clients. Chambers has PW/Skadden in Band 3/4 nationally and in NY, whereas Fitzpatrick is Band 1/2 nationally and in NY. Demarsais isn't on there, in part I guess because they're so new.

Fourth, there's lateral opportunities. This factor is, in part, based upon a various number of factors: how prospective firms view the firm, your practice area, your pre-LS work experience, recommendations, contacts and connections, etc. I love it when TLS discusses exit options, because much of the conversations are unfounded or based upon flawed assumptions (e.g. just because you're at a V20 instead of a V50, your lateral options will be better). I don't know that much about lateraling, as I haven't lateraled yet. But I've spoken with attorneys about it, and the important aspects include those factors I've listed above.

Finally, there's firm culture. Each firm will obviously have a different feel, notwithstanding its size. This subject is beaten to death on TLS, so I assume you understand what I'm talking about. This factor depends upon the person, so you'd have to make this call for yourself, based upon your impressions during your CB.

I'm poasting from my phone, so I'm sure I've missed something. OP, you can PM me if you want.

[Anonymous User]

. . . Fitzpatrick is a terrible place to work, and Desmarais is a place to end a career, not start one. You can lateral just about anywhere from Paul Weiss. Don't think that's true of the other two.

Didn't apply to Quinn (not at PLIP) and didn't get offers from the others. Why do you say Fitzpatrick is a terrible place to work?

Also interested to hear your reasoning.

I worked there recently as an SA and had a f*cking blast. Also, associates got lateral offer calls from headhunters daily. That summer, a handful of associates lateralled to biglaw firms. Dunno where you're getting your info from, lil breh.

Bump. Interested in why you think Fitzpatrick is a terrible place to work.

[Anonymous User]

. . . Fitzpatrick is a terrible place to work, and Desmarais is a place to end a career, not start one. You can lateral just about anywhere from Paul Weiss. Don't think that's true of the other two.

Didn't apply to Quinn (not at PLIP) and didn't get offers from the others. Why do you say Fitzpatrick is a terrible place to work?

Also interested to hear your reasoning.

I worked there recently as an SA and had a f*cking blast. Also, associates got lateral offer calls from headhunters daily. That summer, a handful of associates lateralled to biglaw firms. Dunno where you're getting your info from, lil breh.

Bump. Interested in why you think Fitzpatrick is a terrible place to work.

I don't think he knows. Although I would also be curious.

[englawyer]

I don't think he knows. Although I would also be curious.

when i was doing EIP, i heard to avoid Fitzpatrick due to shaky financials. They no offered a bunch of ppl from Class 2011/2012 2L sa's i believe.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think he knows. Although I would also be curious.

when i was doing EIP, i heard to avoid Fitzpatrick due to shaky financials. They no offered a bunch of ppl from Class 2011/2012 2L sa's i believe.

Your EIP was last year though right? Wasn't that when things were really unpredictable for a lot of other firms too? Should one be less worried now if everyone in last year's summer class were all given an offer (according to NALP)?

[Anonymous User]

when i was doing EIP, i heard to avoid Fitzpatrick due to shaky financials. They no offered a bunch of ppl from Class 2011/2012 2L sa's i believe.

Your EIP was last year though right? Wasn't that when things were really unpredictable for a lot of other firms too? Should one be less worried now if everyone in last year's summer class were all given an offer (according to NALP)?

I certainly hope so... and yeah, it appears that everyone got an offer last summer according to NALP. Hopefully that trend continues.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think he knows. Although I would also be curious.

when i was doing EIP, i heard to avoid Fitzpatrick due to shaky financials. They no offered a bunch of ppl from Class 2011/2012 2L sa's i believe.

Class of 2011: three were no-offered because of terrible WP/professionalism.

Class of 2012: 100% offer rate, all of which accepted and are now first-year associates.

Class of 2013 (this past year): two (IIRC, but it might be 3) no-offered due to WP/professionalism.

Also, the firm had it's best revenue years to date (the firm has been around since the 70s) in 2010/2011. 2012 won't be as good, but still very solid.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think he knows. Although I would also be curious.

when i was doing EIP, i heard to avoid Fitzpatrick due to shaky financials. They no offered a bunch of ppl from Class 2011/2012 2L sa's i believe.

Class of 2011: three were no-offered because of terrible WP/professionalism.

Class of 2012: 100% offer rate, all of which accepted and are now first-year associates.

Class of 2013 (this past year): two (IIRC, but it might be 3) no-offered due to WP/professionalism.

Also, the firm had it's best revenue years to date (the firm has been around since the 70s) in 2010/2011. 2012 won't be as good, but still very solid.

2-3 out of how many? 17 (from NALP)?

How do you know this? Was WP/professionalism the reason given by the firm or did you get to witness it first hand?

[Anonymous User]

In 2011 it was like 17 or so. 2012 was 12, and this year was like 15-17 or something. The firm always tries to get around 12-17/yr. The 2012 12-person class was the smallest in recent history (apparently, due to offer yield, etc.).

I didn't witness it firsthand, but that's the consensus from those who did. You'd be surprised at how many people are not quite mature enough to work in a professional environment. Also, biglaw isn't for some people who might otherwise be qualified. Latham did the same thing this year. If your work sucks/you can't control your burgers in a social/professional atmosphere, then you don't deserve to be in that position in the first place.

[Anonymous User]

In 2011 it was like 17 or so. 2012 was 12, and this year was like 15-17 or something. The firm always tries to get around 12-17/yr. The 2012 12-person class was the smallest in recent history (apparently, due to offer yield, etc.).

I didn't witness it firsthand, but that's the consensus from those who did. You'd be surprised at how many people are not quite mature enough to work in a professional environment. Also, biglaw isn't for some people who might otherwise be qualified. Latham did the same thing this year. If your work sucks/you can't control your burgers in a social/professional atmosphere, then you don't deserve to be in that position in the first place.

can't control your burgers? i have never heard this phrase. you mean getting food on your clothes?

not to derail this thread entirely, but what kind of behavior would be considered not quite mature enough?

[09042014]

How much patent does Paul Weiss even do?

[Big Shrimpin]

How much patent does Paul Weiss even do?

There are like 20-30ish in the NYC office, so not a ton.

[09042014]

How much patent does Paul Weiss even do?

There are like 20-30ish in the NYC office, so not a ton.

Do you know this personally or did you just check their site? Because their website lists a bunch of people who apparently do patent occasionally but not full time. It's hard for me to figure out how many are actually doing patent work regularly.

[Big Shrimpin]

How much patent does Paul Weiss even do?

There are like 20-30ish in the NYC office, so not a ton.

Do you know this personally or did you just check their site? Because their website lists a bunch of people who apparently do patent occasionally but not full time. It's hard for me to figure out how many are actually doing patent work regularly.

Website. And yes, I'd agree patent-only would be a lot less.

[androstan]

In 2011 it was like 17 or so. 2012 was 12, and this year was like 15-17 or something. The firm always tries to get around 12-17/yr. The 2012 12-person class was the smallest in recent history (apparently, due to offer yield, etc.).

I didn't witness it firsthand, but that's the consensus from those who did. You'd be surprised at how many people are not quite mature enough to work in a professional environment. Also, biglaw isn't for some people who might otherwise be qualified. Latham did the same thing this year. If your work sucks/you can't control your burgers in a social/professional atmosphere, then you don't deserve to be in that position in the first place.

can't control your burgers? i have never heard this phrase. you mean getting food on your clothes?

not to derail this thread entirely, but what kind of behavior would be considered not quite mature enough?

Not sure if this or if "burger" is a nickname/codeword/slang for some kind of alcoholic beverage.

[Big Shrimpin]

TLS "burgers" translation: inability to function in social situations.

Come on, people.

[androstan]

TLS "burgers" translation: inability to function in social situations.

Come on, people.

Thanks. I come from a pretty modest background. Neither of my parents graduated from college. I have nightmares about not knowing the appropriate social graces at partner-hosted dinner parties.

[androstan]

I don't like the poll title because you're missing Ropes, Kirkland, and Quinn out of the "best" NYC patent firms.

I feel like Paul Weiss is a no-brainer, but I honestly don't know if their patent practice is even close to the strength of their general lit practice. I would probably still take Paul Weiss regardless. Fitzpatrick is a terrible place to work, and Desmarais is a place to end a career, not start one. You can lateral just about anywhere from Paul Weiss. Don't think that's true of the other two.

Why is Fitzpatrick a terrible place to work?

[Anonymous User]

I don't like the poll title because you're missing Ropes, Kirkland, and Quinn out of the "best" NYC patent firms.

I feel like Paul Weiss is a no-brainer, but I honestly don't know if their patent practice is even close to the strength of their general lit practice. I would probably still take Paul Weiss regardless. Fitzpatrick is a terrible place to work, and Desmarais is a place to end a career, not start one. You can lateral just about anywhere from Paul Weiss. Don't think that's true of the other two.

Why is Fitzpatrick a terrible place to work?

It's not. The people are smart and nice. It has a stellar reputation (see chambers band ranking for IP, I believe only two firms are ranked band 1 in NY). You can probably lateral to almost any IP practice that does Hatch-Waxman from there, if not any IP practice in general.