How fast to send thank yous after callback?

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sunynp
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby sunynp » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:19 am

I don't know. If the associate is so stressed out about life and work that she dings people for not sending thank yous , maybe she should stop being part of recruiting. Recruiting is part of the job of an associate for the benefit of their firm. They are not doing interviewees a huge favor by interviewing them. I'm sure there are other people at the firm who could step in for her.I think dinging someone for not sending a thank you is very petty.
Last edited by sunynp on Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

Rhidan
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Rhidan » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:If you are sending a thank you to an associate, you would literally have to send it the moment you walked out of the building or sooner for it to matter because the associates fill out a form appraising you when you leave and that's that. Partners are different depending on hiring process.


So a thank you email only matters if it helps lead to an offer? Doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of a thank you email?

I usually send thank you emails the day after I interview. Even though a thank you likely will not have a huge impact on your evaluation it is still appropriate to be courteous to people. The people I interview with are generally great people who offer great career advice beyond the interview process.

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Sheffield
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Sheffield » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:55 am

+1. I cannot think of a reason why I should not send a thank you email. So I always do. Usually within 24 hours.

Anonymous User
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:45 pm

homestyle28 wrote:This. Holy christ I can't believe that anyone would be as self-absorbed and oblivious as anonymous. "You should be thanking ME for the pleasure of interviewing my pompous ass!"


I agree that someone thinking that way would be self-absorbed and oblivious, but you appear to have missed the crux of the argument being made.

The point was that no rational interviewee is sitting there expecting an e-mail thank you note from each of the people he met with that day nor do candidates holds it against the interviewer one doesn't come. So why would it make sense for an interviewer, who has by any objective measure given up much less, to hold that "you should be thanking me for gracing you with my presence" attitude you just ridiculed?

KidStuddi
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby KidStuddi » Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:This. Holy christ I can't believe that anyone would be as self-absorbed and oblivious as anonymous. "You should be thanking ME for the pleasure of interviewing my pompous ass!"


I agree that someone thinking that way would be self-absorbed and oblivious, but you appear to have missed the crux of the argument being made.

The point was that no rational interviewee is sitting there expecting an e-mail thank you note from each of the people he met with that day nor do candidates holds it against the interviewer one doesn't come. So why would it make sense for an interviewer, who has by any objective measure given up much less, to hold that "you should be thanking me for gracing you with my presence" attitude you just ridiculed?


Anon posted by accident.

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Bronte
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Bronte » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:20 pm

Thank you notes are lame. Wanting to get a thank you note is lame. The fact that an associate felt compelled to post here encouraging people to send thank you notes is causing me to reflect sorrowfully on the human condition.

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Lasers
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Lasers » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:24 pm

sunynp wrote:I don't know. If the associate is so stressed out about life and work that she dings people for not sending thank yous , maybe she should stop being part of recruiting. Recruiting is part of the job of an associate for the benefit of their firm. They are not doing interviewees a huge favor by interviewing them. I'm sure there are other people at the firm who could step in for her.I think dinging someone for not sending a thank you is very petty.

i don't see it as dinging someone for not sending a thank you. i think, more to the tune of what that supposed associate recruiter said, if you're a borderline candidate, a thank you later may well give you a slight jump over your competition because it shows more interest in the firm (and arguably better "manners"). i just don't see how sending a thank you can hurt you so long as you're not a complete idiot and can proofread a simple email.

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Lasers
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Lasers » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:26 pm

Bronte wrote:Thank you notes are lame. Wanting to get a thank you note is lame. The fact that an associate felt compelled to post here encouraging people to send thank you notes is causing me to reflect sorrowfully on the human condition.

lame or not, if it doesn't hurt you, it's something i would recommend people doing. i don't see why you can't spend 5 minutes to humor someone by sending a thank you irrespective of how ridiculous you may think it is.

Snape
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Snape » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:28 pm

I sent unique emails to each person I interviewed with recently at two V10 firms. Got offers from both next day.

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20130312
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby 20130312 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:30 pm

Sorry to post in the legal employment forum, but this is pretty ridiculous. It takes five minutes to write a thank you note. It probably doesn't make any difference at all, but is it really that much of a burden?

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drmguy
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby drmguy » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:32 pm

I sent emails when I got home.

I sent one to everyone I talked to for longer than 30 seconds. The people that usually don't receive them were really happy to get them.

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Bronte
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Bronte » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:36 pm

Lasers wrote:
Bronte wrote:Thank you notes are lame. Wanting to get a thank you note is lame. The fact that an associate felt compelled to post here encouraging people to send thank you notes is causing me to reflect sorrowfully on the human condition.

lame or not, if it doesn't hurt you, it's something i would recommend people doing. i don't see why you can't spend 5 minutes to humor someone by sending a thank you irrespective of how ridiculous you may think it is.


I had an interviewer last year say to me, as I was walking out the door, "Oh, and don't send me one of those thank you notes." I shit you not.

Listen guys, it's immaterial. It does not matter whether or not you send a thank you note. But I don't see why there's any reason to think it's more likely to help you than hurt you.

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20130312
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby 20130312 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:38 pm

Bronte wrote:I had an interviewer last year say to me, as I was walking out the door, "Oh, and don't send me one of those thank you notes." I shit you not.

Listen guys, it's immaterial. It does not matter whether or not you send a thank you note. But I don't see why there's any reason to think it's more likely to help you than hurt you.


Just hard to imagine an interviewer saying "A thank you note? What an asshole."

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Bronte
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Bronte » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:41 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
Bronte wrote:I had an interviewer last year say to me, as I was walking out the door, "Oh, and don't send me one of those thank you notes." I shit you not.

Listen guys, it's immaterial. It does not matter whether or not you send a thank you note. But I don't see why there's any reason to think it's more likely to help you than hurt you.


Just hard to imagine an interviewer saying "A thank you note? What an asshole."


I promise, and I'm going to the grave with this, if I end up doing OCI interviews, I will literally ding every person that sends me a thank you note.

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Lasers
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Lasers » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:43 pm

Bronte wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:
Bronte wrote:I had an interviewer last year say to me, as I was walking out the door, "Oh, and don't send me one of those thank you notes." I shit you not.

Listen guys, it's immaterial. It does not matter whether or not you send a thank you note. But I don't see why there's any reason to think it's more likely to help you than hurt you.


Just hard to imagine an interviewer saying "A thank you note? What an asshole."


I promise, and I'm going to the grave with this, if I end up doing OCI interviews, I will literally ding every person that sends me a thank you note.

haha, you seem to have a particular distaste for these emails.

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Bronte
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Bronte » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:16 pm

Lasers wrote:
Bronte wrote:I promise, and I'm going to the grave with this, if I end up doing OCI interviews, I will literally ding every person that sends me a thank you note.

haha, you seem to have a particular distaste for these emails.


All in fun. I genuinely believe it doesn't matter. For every person who claims to like them, I would bet there's a person who's annoyed by them. Add to that the effort that goes into sending them (minor, but real during OCI season), the possibility of making a typo, and, if you're personalizing them, the possibility of saying the wrong thing, and I think they're not worth sending.

But, like many things that law students worry about, it probably does not matter either way. I did not send a single one last year and did just fine. I asked another person in my class yesterday if he sent them, and he didn't, and he has a job. I also remember last year one of my friends saying she sent them, and she also has a job. It's really no big deal.

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Sheffield
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Sheffield » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:36 am

If it came down to a close call on me or someone else getting an offer, I would rather be on the side of having sent a thank you note. If I was never in the running, what’s the downside. . .a 0¢ email stamp?

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Bronte
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Bronte » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:38 am

Sheffield wrote:If it came down to a close call on me and or someone else getting an offer, I would rather be on the side of having sent a thank you note. If I was never in the running, what’s the downside. . .a 0¢ email stamp?


I will quit this profession if I find credible evidence that a thank you note ever changed the outcome of an offer.

Anonymous User
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:43 am

any correlation between no response to a thank you and no offer?

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Bronte
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Bronte » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:any correlation between no response to a thank you and no offer?


I give up.

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Sheffield
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Sheffield » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:any correlation between no response to a thank you and no offer?

If a hiring person is truly struggling between two candidates. A final tap on the shoulder might tip it your way. If they are leaning the other way, a thank you note will likely fall short (ditto sending bouquet of flowers!).

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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:06 am

I think one of the things that muddies the waters in the thank you note debate is that I think people write them differently. While I'm a strong believer in thank you notes, 90% of the thank you note samples I've seen distributed by OCSs I would personally never consider sending. Using a random OCS sample from a google search:

"Thank you for taking the time to speak with me about employment opportunities with Jones & Smith LLP. My strong interest in becoming a litigator stems from my experience working for Judge Alexander and my work with Professor Tate in my first-year of law school. Working on the Moot Court Board confirms my commitment to pursuing a career as a litigator and I cannot think of a more supportive environment in which to begin my career than at Jones & Smith LLP.

I am enclosing a writing sample, per your request. If you should require any other information, please do not hesitate to call me at (412) 222-2222. Thank you again for your consideration and I look forward to hearing from you."


If I received something like this, I would think 1) the person wasn't actually grateful at all, 2) the person is self-centered, and 3) it wasn't a thank you note, but instead just an excuse for the writer to try to sell him or herself further. Don't get me wrong, even then I would probably understand that the student was just doing what OCS was telling them to and was trying his or her best to get a job in this tough market, but I don't think pity is the result you should be shooting for when you send a thank you note. I also could imagine some people being offended or annoyed by such a note, since it really does nothing for the reader but steal more of their time.

I think if you're going to bother to actually write a thank you note, you should aim to make it sincere, charming, funny, and under certain circumstances maybe even touching. I think if the reader doesn't at least smile at some point while reading the note, or doesn't walk away feeling at least a little warmed by it, that it's unlikely to help you.

Anyway, the point is that if you come off as someone who sincerely appreciates the time of others and has enough insight and charm to write an amusing or warming thank you note, that can make a difference, maybe even the difference between an offer and no offer as was discussed above. Although I strongly believe the primary function of a thank you note should be to genuinely convey gratitude, it is also another opportunity to show who you are, and without the pressures of an interview.

How big a difference a thank you note makes is something we'll never know-- probably, as a whole, the difference is negligible. I will say, though, that I put a lot of time into my thank you notes, and some people have gone out of their way to thank me for my notes or write back something equally sincere.

Also, as much as people dread making mistakes, I think it's a rare person who is just going to can your ass for making a typo or something. I wrote a thank you note for a screener the day after and misspelled the name of the partner who interviewed me. Reading that sentence, TLS probably crapped its pants three times- once for the thank you note, twice for the fact it was after a screener, and a third time for misspelling a partner's name. I caught the mistake immediately and followed it up with a short message apologizing for the mistake, making fun of myself with a joke/some humor, and apologizing and thanking him again. The partner wrote back an e-mail indicating that he was amused by my apology and telling me that he decided to recommend me for a callback. Maybe I would have received the callback anyway, and maybe he was just a 1/1000 super nice guy, but my guess is that he's just a reminder of the fact that even people at big law firms are people nonetheless. I think if a thank you note can help demonstrate that you have a heart and brain, you're doing as much for yourself writing one as you would be giving a strong answer to one of their questions. Just my two cents.

anon5225
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby anon5225 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:21 am

grrrstick wrote:Unless someone specifically invited you to email them in an interview, do not do it.



is that not typical? literally every CB I have had every single attorney has given me their info and told me to contact them with any additional Qs and anything else I might need/want.

IFoughtTheLaw
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby IFoughtTheLaw » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:I think one of the things that muddies the waters in the thank you note debate is that I think people write them differently. While I'm a strong believer in thank you notes, 90% of the thank you note samples I've seen distributed by OCSs I would personally never consider sending. Using a random OCS sample from a google search:

"Thank you for taking the time to speak with me about employment opportunities with Jones & Smith LLP. My strong interest in becoming a litigator stems from my experience working for Judge Alexander and my work with Professor Tate in my first-year of law school. Working on the Moot Court Board confirms my commitment to pursuing a career as a litigator and I cannot think of a more supportive environment in which to begin my career than at Jones & Smith LLP.

I am enclosing a writing sample, per your request. If you should require any other information, please do not hesitate to call me at (412) 222-2222. Thank you again for your consideration and I look forward to hearing from you."


If I received something like this, I would think 1) the person wasn't actually grateful at all, 2) the person is self-centered, and 3) it wasn't a thank you note, but instead just an excuse for the writer to try to sell him or herself further. Don't get me wrong, even then I would probably understand that the student was just doing what OCS was telling them to and was trying his or her best to get a job in this tough market, but I don't think pity is the result you should be shooting for when you send a thank you note. I also could imagine some people being offended or annoyed by such a note, since it really does nothing for the reader but steal more of their time.

I think if you're going to bother to actually write a thank you note, you should aim to make it sincere, charming, funny, and under certain circumstances maybe even touching. I think if the reader doesn't at least smile at some point while reading the note, or doesn't walk away feeling at least a little warmed by it, that it's unlikely to help you.

Anyway, the point is that if you come off as someone who sincerely appreciates the time of others and has enough insight and charm to write an amusing or warming thank you note, that can make a difference, maybe even the difference between an offer and no offer as was discussed above. Although I strongly believe the primary function of a thank you note should be to genuinely convey gratitude, it is also another opportunity to show who you are, and without the pressures of an interview.

How big a difference a thank you note makes is something we'll never know-- probably, as a whole, the difference is negligible. I will say, though, that I put a lot of time into my thank you notes, and some people have gone out of their way to thank me for my notes or write back something equally sincere.

Also, as much as people dread making mistakes, I think it's a rare person who is just going to can your ass for making a typo or something. I wrote a thank you note for a screener the day after and misspelled the name of the partner who interviewed me. Reading that sentence, TLS probably crapped its pants three times- once for the thank you note, twice for the fact it was after a screener, and a third time for misspelling a partner's name. I caught the mistake immediately and followed it up with a short message apologizing for the mistake, making fun of myself with a joke/some humor, and apologizing and thanking him again. The partner wrote back an e-mail indicating that he was amused by my apology and telling me that he decided to recommend me for a callback. Maybe I would have received the callback anyway, and maybe he was just a 1/1000 super nice guy, but my guess is that he's just a reminder of the fact that even people at big law firms are people nonetheless. I think if a thank you note can help demonstrate that you have a heart and brain, you're doing as much for yourself writing one as you would be giving a strong answer to one of their questions. Just my two cents.


You touched on exactly why I hate writing thank you notes. Those OCS samples sound horribly fake and lame to me. And often in a callback, I'll really click with only some out of the four interviewers. So I'm left with writing a real human sounding thank you note to some, and that fake bullshit to others.

I'm at the point where I'm only sending thank yous to that rare person that I had a really interesting conversation with, and can thus write a thank you note that sounds sincere. Even if that means not sending it to all 4 interviewers.

pkt63
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Re: How fast to send thank yous after callback?

Postby pkt63 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:49 am

I send them to each one I meet, and they are all very individualized. Sort of exhausting. But, I get responses from about 50% of them, many just to say thanks great to meet you too, while others also capitalize on something in our conversation (i.e. one guy commenting on changing his vacation plans based on recommendations I made, and another kind of teased me about an inside joke we created in the thirty minute meeting). And a few others along that line. I am hopeful they forward those to my files, and now I know exactly which ones I will call first to talk to again, productively, as I am making my decisions. So overall, I thought it was a good investment of time...even though I usually met 6-7 attorneys each time, plus the recruiter. The first time took me at least two hours, but I have liberally stolen language each time, and it got faster. I never missed correcting a firm name when I cut and pasted (amazing, such a relief), but one time I did forget to correct "yesterday" to "Friday" when I sent a thank you note out on the following monday. I have a message from that firm to call me back, which I would hope they would just leave the rejection on my voicemail, if that's what it is, and not make me actually call back. So perhaps that little mistake didn't blackball me.




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