Do firms YP? Any sense in sending a LOCI equivalent?

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Do firms YP? Any sense in sending a LOCI equivalent?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:41 am

I did a callback at a NYC firm last Wednesday that is not highly (though still moderately) grade selective at my school. I am lucky enough to have very strong grades, and I'm a little concerned that this firm sees me as someone who will choose a higher-ranked firm over it. In reality, I have a lot of genuine interest in the firm for practice-related reasons. Obviously I tried to express this during the callback, but it's now going on 8 days and I've heard nothing. I can't guarantee that I'd choose this firm if I got an offer, but I would strongly consider it.

My question simply is: would there be any value in e-mailing my interviewers from this firm to thank them for their time and reaffirm my strong interest? I know the conventional wisdom is to not bother with e-mail thank-yous, and I generally haven't been, but I'm getting a little concerned that I'm being YP'd here. I'd like to give off the impression that I'm as invested as I really am. Thoughts?

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ph14
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Re: Do firms YP? Any sense in sending a LOCI equivalent?

Postby ph14 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:I did a callback at a NYC firm last Wednesday that is not highly (though still moderately) grade selective at my school. I am lucky enough to have very strong grades, and I'm a little concerned that this firm sees me as someone who will choose a higher-ranked firm over it. In reality, I have a lot of genuine interest in the firm for practice-related reasons. Obviously I tried to express this during the callback, but it's now going on 8 days and I've heard nothing. I can't guarantee that I'd choose this firm if I got an offer, but I would strongly consider it.

My question simply is: would there be any value in e-mailing my interviewers from this firm to thank them for their time and reaffirm my strong interest? I know the conventional wisdom is to not bother with e-mail thank-yous, and I generally haven't been, but I'm getting a little concerned that I'm being YP'd here. I'd like to give off the impression that I'm as invested as I really am. Thoughts?


A firm isn't going to YP if you've already have your callback with them. They've already sunk money into your callback flight, hotel, and more importantly, associate and partner's time. Some firms do YP (rarely), but it's at the screener stage.

Yes, send a thank you letter and reexpress your interest.
Last edited by ph14 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Do firms YP? Any sense in sending a LOCI equivalent?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:44 am

Perfectly acceptable use of the thank you. Although you need to send them ASAP, > 8 days is a long time for a thank you.

Agree with above that they are probably not "YPing" you explicitly. It's possible that they don't want to extend too many offers that won't be accepted though, merely because it adds to uncertainty and the possibility that the class size becomes too large.

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RVP11
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Re: Do firms YP? Any sense in sending a LOCI equivalent?

Postby RVP11 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:20 am

LOL @ the idea that firms yield protect. Are firms, like law schools, ranked by acceptance percentages? No. They have no reason to yield protect.

Sending an LOCI equivalent just makes you look desperate. It likely has no effect at all on your candidacy.

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Re: Do firms YP? Any sense in sending a LOCI equivalent?

Postby DrGuano » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:09 am

RVP11 wrote:LOL @ the idea that firms yield protect. Are firms, like law schools, ranked by acceptance percentages? No. They have no reason to yield protect.

Sending an LOCI equivalent just makes you look desperate. It likely has no effect at all on your candidacy.


Law firms absolutely yield protect. It's not about protecting their yield for rankings purposes...it's to avoid under subscription.

At my school we have 35 bids, 60/40 preselect/lottery. Firms can only preselect students who bid on them. Kids at the top of the class have to bid on lower ranked firms to round out their 35 and the lower ranked firms will usually preselect them. After they select students in their more traditional GPA range, they'd rather choose over-qualified interviewees than under-qualified ones. But after screeners and taking the chance that one of those higher ranked students may sincerely want to work at one of those firms , they yield protect against those that don't show a sincere interest. No point in wasting limited callback spots, money, and time on students who will never accept there.

I had 20/29 callbacks. The CBs were all top firms...Cravath, DPW, Weil, Kirkland, Cleary, Sidley, Cahill, MoFo, etc. My 9 rejections were from Hughes Hubbard, Stroock & Stroock, Schulte, Kaye Scholer, etc. If that's not yield protection, I don't know what is.

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Re: Do firms YP? Any sense in sending a LOCI equivalent?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:18 am

DrGuano wrote:
RVP11 wrote:LOL @ the idea that firms yield protect. Are firms, like law schools, ranked by acceptance percentages? No. They have no reason to yield protect.

Sending an LOCI equivalent just makes you look desperate. It likely has no effect at all on your candidacy.


Law firms absolutely yield protect. It's not about protecting their yield for rankings purposes...it's to avoid under subscription.

At my school we have 35 bids, 60/40 preselect/lottery. Firms can only preselect students who bid on them. Kids at the top of the class have to bid on lower ranked firms to round out their 35 and the lower ranked firms will usually preselect them. After they select students in their more traditional GPA range, they'd rather choose over-qualified interviewees than under-qualified ones. But after screeners and taking the chance that one of those higher ranked students may sincerely want to work at one of those firms , they yield protect against those that don't show a sincere interest. No point in wasting limited callback spots, money, and time on students who will never accept there.

I had 20/29 callbacks. The CBs were all top firms...Cravath, DPW, Weil, Kirkland, Cleary, Sidley, Cahill, MoFo, etc. My 9 rejections were from Hughes Hubbard, Stroock & Stroock, Schulte, Kaye Scholer, etc. If that's not yield protection, I don't know what is.


Yeah, exactly, if a firm doesn't think you are going to accept their offer, they don't want to give you an offer if they think you are going to go somewhere else. They obviously plan for a certain number of their offers to be turned down, but there is no point in giving an offer that they believe will almost definitely be turned down.

Also, law is such a prestige obsessed field that I'm sure ego plays a role to some extent. Kind of a reject you before you reject me sort of thing.

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Re: Do firms YP? Any sense in sending a LOCI equivalent?

Postby target » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:51 am

DrGuano wrote:
RVP11 wrote:LOL @ the idea that firms yield protect. Are firms, like law schools, ranked by acceptance percentages? No. They have no reason to yield protect.

Sending an LOCI equivalent just makes you look desperate. It likely has no effect at all on your candidacy.


Law firms absolutely yield protect. It's not about protecting their yield for rankings purposes...it's to avoid under subscription.

At my school we have 35 bids, 60/40 preselect/lottery. Firms can only preselect students who bid on them. Kids at the top of the class have to bid on lower ranked firms to round out their 35 and the lower ranked firms will usually preselect them. After they select students in their more traditional GPA range, they'd rather choose over-qualified interviewees than under-qualified ones. But after screeners and taking the chance that one of those higher ranked students may sincerely want to work at one of those firms , they yield protect against those that don't show a sincere interest. No point in wasting limited callback spots, money, and time on students who will never accept there.

I had 20/29 callbacks. The CBs were all top firms...Cravath, DPW, Weil, Kirkland, Cleary, Sidley, Cahill, MoFo, etc. My 9 rejections were from Hughes Hubbard, Stroock & Stroock, Schulte, Kaye Scholer, etc. If that's not yield protection, I don't know what is.


Do you think smaller firms will generally call back fewer ppl and have lower cbs to offer ratio?

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RVP11
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Re: Do firms YP? Any sense in sending a LOCI equivalent?

Postby RVP11 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:55 pm

DrGuano wrote:
RVP11 wrote:LOL @ the idea that firms yield protect. Are firms, like law schools, ranked by acceptance percentages? No. They have no reason to yield protect.

Sending an LOCI equivalent just makes you look desperate. It likely has no effect at all on your candidacy.


Law firms absolutely yield protect. It's not about protecting their yield for rankings purposes...it's to avoid under subscription.

At my school we have 35 bids, 60/40 preselect/lottery. Firms can only preselect students who bid on them. Kids at the top of the class have to bid on lower ranked firms to round out their 35 and the lower ranked firms will usually preselect them. After they select students in their more traditional GPA range, they'd rather choose over-qualified interviewees than under-qualified ones. But after screeners and taking the chance that one of those higher ranked students may sincerely want to work at one of those firms , they yield protect against those that don't show a sincere interest. No point in wasting limited callback spots, money, and time on students who will never accept there.

I had 20/29 callbacks. The CBs were all top firms...Cravath, DPW, Weil, Kirkland, Cleary, Sidley, Cahill, MoFo, etc. My 9 rejections were from Hughes Hubbard, Stroock & Stroock, Schulte, Kaye Scholer, etc. If that's not yield protection, I don't know what is.


I thought this was about callback-to-offer, not interview-to-callback.

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Re: Do firms YP? Any sense in sending a LOCI equivalent?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:11 pm

One partner at a major market firm specifically told me during my callback that her firm has begun yield protecting during the callback stage (although she didn't call it that, she just explained what they do in order to signal to me that I was seen as a wanted commodity rather than 1 in a million). I wasn't shocked at all but it was funny how she thought it was borderline genius/novel

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Re: Do firms YP? Any sense in sending a LOCI equivalent?

Postby Old Gregg » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:37 pm

I had 20/29 callbacks. The CBs were all top firms...Cravath, DPW, Weil, Kirkland, Cleary, Sidley, Cahill, MoFo, etc. My 9 rejections were from Hughes Hubbard, Stroock & Stroock, Schulte, Kaye Scholer, etc. If that's not yield protection, I don't know what is.





The former firms tend to have much larger summer classes than the latter. I don't understand how that's hard to comprehend.

I knew from the get go that getting an offer to be one of the 4 SAs at K&L gates would be a lot harder than Paul Weiss. The former isn't necessarily more grade selective, but is fit selective because so few spots are available.

If a firm rejects you because of lack of interest, it's because you didn't show enough interest, not because of yield protection.

Yield protection is one of the most self-aggrandizing inventions of TLSers.




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