Cravath

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:47 am

My friend was offered a Saturday callback at Cravath.

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:05 pm

I just spent my summer as CS&M. You will definitely work a lot, but that is true for any big firm. Whether you work 75 or 80 hours will not make a significant difference to your life, and the hours are -- at any firm -- more of a function of your practice group and how busy they are than it is a function of the name on the door.

The bigger difference is the method by which work is assigned. Cravath's rotation system will affect your life in significant ways. You have input into which partner you work for, but beyond that you have no control over your assignments, as they are determined by the partner's business. This can be good or bad: you can end up working on something you don't find thrilling, and working a lot, and you have no control over it. Some mid-levels left while I was there because they were unhappy with their latest rotation.

But you can also end up working exclusively with the same amazing partner for 2 years and learn more than you ever have before. I got to know fewer people at my firm than my friends at peer firms, but the people I worked with I got to know very well. Associates and partners often spent up to an hour with me individually giving me feedback. I spent significant out-of-office "quality time" with the partner to whom I was assigned, met the partner's family, and learned a ton from them and got a lot of guidance. I worked on a total of 4 cases, and got to know those cases very well. My roommate, who was at another top NYC firm, worked on 10+ different matters for as many different partners and tons of different associates.

Similarly, if you want to try some real estate, M&A, banking, litigation, antitrust, etc., Cravath probably isn't the best choice. Likewise if you want to rotate abroad. I knew I wanted neither of those: I wanted litigation, and I wanted NYC. I loved all the people with whom I worked, and feel more confident that the choice was right -- mostly do to comparing my summer with that of my friends -- than I did when I made that choice, but I also see more now that it's not the right choice for everyone.

PS. The saturday CBs happen. But most people work from home on the weekends. It is true, however, that if you're worried about your hours, don't go to Cravath. In fact, if you're worried about hours, don't become a lawyer.

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:17 pm

FWIW, the top 5 firms (in terms of numbers hired) at HLS are:

Cleary (23)
Cravath (16)
DPW (16)
SullCrom (13)
Paul Weiss (12)

Ropes Boston and Debevoise are the only other 2 firms that took a double-digit number of HLS students. Cravath also takes plenty of LR people. It's definitely a popular destination for top HLS people.

Wachtell's yield was only 2 out of 6 offers, FWIW. I know one of the 4 people who turned it down went to Ropes Boston. People just are not that prestige-obsessed here - some are, but most tend to pick between peer firms based on fit, the people they met, or other intangibles. The only firm that stands out as a "can't miss" for top students is W&C (and, to a lesser extent, Munger - but even they had only a 50% yield).

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:28 pm

PMan99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Crescat scientia wrote:
Cravath probably isn't even in the top 5 of places that the top HLS students want to go.

To the anonymous person who wrote that, what are the top 5 places that the top HLS students want to go? (You can PM me if you'd like.)
Thanks.


Other poster but I can almost guarantee that the answer is:

Williams and Connolly
Wachtell
Kellogg Huber/Susman/Bartlitt Beck/Keker
Govt (SG, OWHC, DOJ, etc..)
Clerkship -> Teaching


TCR is probably four DC offices and WLRK, but yea.


I'm the anonymous above who wrote that. First, Cravath is a great firm, especially if you're interested in corporate work, but it's obviously not for everyone and doesn't offer the greatest quality of life.

Don't take this as gospel, and there are certainly many great options out there, but here are the firms top HLS students want to go the most (excluding public interest positions):
Williams & Connolly DC
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher DC
Munger, Tolles, & Olson LA (HLR Pres. from a couple years back who is clerking for Justice Kagan summered here)
Jenner & Block DC
Wilmerhale DC
Covington DC
WLRK NY
Susman & Godfrey TX
Keker & Van Nest SF
Irell & Manella LA

Williams & Connolly is probably the most desired firm, by quite a bit.

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:FWIW, the top 5 firms (in terms of numbers hired) at HLS are:

Cleary (23)
Cravath (16)
DPW (16)
SullCrom (13)
Paul Weiss (12)

Ropes Boston and Debevoise are the only other 2 firms that took a double-digit number of HLS students. Cravath also takes plenty of LR people. It's definitely a popular destination for top HLS people.

Wachtell's yield was only 2 out of 6 offers, FWIW. I know one of the 4 people who turned it down went to Ropes Boston. People just are not that prestige-obsessed here - some are, but most tend to pick between peer firms based on fit, the people they met, or other intangibles. The only firm that stands out as a "can't miss" for top students is W&C (and, to a lesser extent, Munger - but even they had only a 50% yield).


This post is highly credited. But remember, the firms that have the most offer/acceptances aren't necessarily the most desired. I agree with what you said about W&C and Munger.

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Re: Cravath

Postby alabamabound » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:36 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
In my experience, CSM and WLRK are fascinating to the average lawyer in a way that S&C, Skadden etc. aren't.


Probably one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on this forum.

And I keep thinking to myself that it can't get any worse. But then someonone like you comes along and writes something like this.


The posters on this site are so obnoxious I can never manage to stay involved in a thread for very long, but I'm happy to answer PMs about my take on Cravath, which is the take of someone who worked there as a paralegal and just finished working as an SA at a "V15" in a different city.

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:56 pm

What are exit options like from Cravath? In particular, to government (eg: AUSA).

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:What are exit options like from Cravath? In particular, to government (eg: AUSA).
Currently considering an offer so I'd love to see what people think about this.

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:26 am

exit options from cravath are very strong, i think. with re:AUSA, however, I am not sure it is the best option. Its white collar practice is relatively small and it does not have as strong a relationship with SDNY as some other NYC firms.

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What are exit options like from Cravath? In particular, to government (eg: AUSA).


I think that DPW in particular would be better for exiting to something like AUSA than Cravath.

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:exit options from cravath are very strong, i think. with re:AUSA, however, I am not sure it is the best option. Its white collar practice is relatively small and it does not have as strong a relationship with SDNY as some other NYC firms.
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What are exit options like from Cravath? In particular, to government (eg: AUSA).


I think that DPW in particular would be better for exiting to something like AUSA than Cravath.
Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, I don't have an offer from DPW. Is AUSA/DOJ still reachable from Cravath?

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:29 pm

doj should be reachable from cravath. it's just not as "plugged in." i know of only one former prosecutor who works there currently (it's worth checking whether there are more), whereas most firms that are considered "feeder firms" have more. what other firms are you considering?

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:doj should be reachable from cravath. it's just not as "plugged in." i know of only one former prosecutor who works there currently (it's worth checking whether there are more), whereas most firms that are considered "feeder firms" have more. what other firms are you considering?
No other offers right now. Pending decisions at Skadden and Latham.

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:57 pm

I had callbacks at over 20 firms, and the interviewers at Cravath were easily the most openly and visibly miserable ones I met at any firm. One associate told me he hadn't had a weekend off (as in not even one day of the weekend) in over three years. Another said he regularly works until midnight on Saturdays, etc.

If you want the hours expectations of Wachtell without equivalent pay... go to Cravath. Prestige isn't enough to make me happy; I also need sleep and something vaguely resembling a personal life.

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Re: Cravath

Postby GeePee » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:doj should be reachable from cravath. it's just not as "plugged in." i know of only one former prosecutor who works there currently (it's worth checking whether there are more), whereas most firms that are considered "feeder firms" have more. what other firms are you considering?

For a lot of the white shoe firms, particularly Cravath, their White Collar practices are fairly young. For a very long time, the prevailing opinion (among these firms) was that criminal defense work was not desirable and so it got outsourced to smaller partner firms. This was even after people like Edward Bennett Williams started to make names for themselves as crossovers from criminal work to commercial civil litigatiion. The name will still look good, but especially for places like SDNY, an in is often enormously helpful, and there are more of those at some peer firms.

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:20 pm

SUPER SATURDAY!!

Thoughts from those who went?

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:SUPER SATURDAY!!

Thoughts from those who went?


A friend told me that there were 20+ students there today. My friend did not get offered on the spot - were there on-the-spot offers today with that many candidates?

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:27 pm

Not on-the-spot. A friend of mine got a call later in the day from the litigation team. Not sure if the corporate side got their act together as quickly.

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Not on-the-spot. A friend of mine got a call later in the day from the litigation team. Not sure if the corporate side got their act together as quickly.


Anyone heard from the corporate side?

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:14 am

I received an offer from corporate last night.

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:29 am

To those of you who have offers, what has the turnaround time been from callback to offer?

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:54 am

Same day (call later that day from hiring partner). I know two people who also received calls the same day.

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Re: Cravath

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:59 am

they also do on-the-spot offers if the hiring partner is around




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