2012 Clerkship Application Thread

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:37 am

Has anyone's references been called? I have an interview Friday with a judge that actually required references. Also curious if the calls would come before or after interview.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:50 am

Calls still trickling in - EDNY Magistrate today

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:03 pm

Has anyone heard anything from/about Judge Davila in N.D. Cal? Has he made interview calls already?

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone heard anything from/about Judge Davila in N.D. Cal? Has he made interview calls already?


I heard he might not be hiring but nothing definite.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:49 pm

ClerkAnon (or anyone else),

I'm in my second year of my 2-year magistrate clerkship. I applied to district court clerkships this term, but struck out. I will be applying to law firms in the next few months, but I am getting a little worried. I didn't have stellar grades, but did better than average. Pre-2008, someone with my grades at my school would have been competitive for a mid-sized firms and even some of the biglaw shops. The clerkship has been awesome so far, but I don't think the experience is helping me when it comes to getting hired at a firm. I spoke with a legal recruiter who told me that while the experience of a magistrate clerkship is great, she doesn't think there will be much of a resume bump (i.e. I have the same chance at getting hired at a firm as a graduating 3L with the same grades/rank as me).

Based on your experiences or observations, what are firms' preceptions on federal magistrate law clerks? I'm not expecting a clerkship bonus or even an associate class credit, I just want a job. When I look at the associate profiles at the local firms, none of the attorneys have magistrate clerkships. All of them are either District Court, COA, state appellate, or state supreme court. I know you can only speak as a COA/DC law clerk, but I was hoping you knew of mag clerks who have been successful, or have some insight based on your experiences as an associate at your firm.

Thanks!

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone heard anything from/about Judge Davila in N.D. Cal? Has he made interview calls already?


I heard he might not be hiring but nothing definite.


What's your source on that? I understood that he was hiring but was slow in reviewing applications this year...

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:40 pm

@ Magistrate clerk:

As you probably know, nobody clerks with a magistrate in hopes of impressing employers. You clerk with a magistrate in hopes of getting the experience and connections you need to clerk with an Article III judge.

The problem you're facing -- as you realize -- is that you're applying in essentially the most competitive clerkship market ever. There are lots and _lots_ of '11 and '12 grads repeating, and you have to compete with the class of '13, one of the largest classes ever with some of the worst job prospects. It's a clerkship logjam.

My advice to you is to stop trying to impress employers with your current CV, but instead to keep trying to land a fed district or a state supreme court. Have your current judge line something up for you. Exploit every resource you have. And start researching now to find out which new-judge and promotion confirmations are expected in December/January. There will be a whole slate of new or promoted judges who will have openings, and would love to have someone with experience.

Good luck!

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Mind saying which judge for S.D. Tex? Or at least if it was an OSCAR or paper application?


I don't think I should say which judge, but it was a paper application. The judge took both paper and OSCAR apps. The judge is on-plan, though. Also, the judge is not in Houston if that helps narrow things down.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:

Was feeling quite down after not hearing anything from OSCAR apps yet.

However, I did a rough calculation based on the information I - somewhat obsessedly - scraped together and found that only 1/2 of the judges I've applied to* have contacted people so far. This made me feel a lot better. I hope it helps others feel the same.

*I avoided NYC completely, so this will skew many people's numbers. Also, I'm sure some have made contact that I haven't heard about, but I've gotta work with the information I can scrounge up (Since it's not all on a convenient, centralized website. Now there's an idea....)

there's something in the works. PM me w/ email if you're interested in being involved.

Mind saying which states these silent judges are in?[/
quote]

They're all over the place. While there are some states (like LA) that I don't see any responses from, mostly I'd bet it's judges who have been in trial, etc since a lot of judges in their districts have hired.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:21 am

Ding from Judge Schneider (E.D. Tex.). Both positions filled.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:@ Magistrate clerk:

As you probably know, nobody clerks with a magistrate in hopes of impressing employers. You clerk with a magistrate in hopes of getting the experience and connections you need to clerk with an Article III judge.

The problem you're facing -- as you realize -- is that you're applying in essentially the most competitive clerkship market ever. There are lots and _lots_ of '11 and '12 grads repeating, and you have to compete with the class of '13, one of the largest classes ever with some of the worst job prospects. It's a clerkship logjam.

My advice to you is to stop trying to impress employers with your current CV, but instead to keep trying to land a fed district or a state supreme court. Have your current judge line something up for you. Exploit every resource you have. And start researching now to find out which new-judge and promotion confirmations are expected in December/January. There will be a whole slate of new or promoted judges who will have openings, and would love to have someone with experience.

Good luck!


I know plenty of people that have landed good litigation gigs in big firms from their magistrate clerkships. Its not like you are just taking a job in the hopes of impressing an Art. III judge somewhere down the road. You're getting great substantive experience in discovery practice, and motion practice, basically you handle everything needed to prepare for a trial and then hand the case over to the district judge. Plenty of employers value these skills, you just need to market yourself and talk about how you learned skills that would help them right off the bat. They won't need to train you.

You should not take a magistrate position with the hopes of moving up the clerking foodchain. It happens, but its not the rule. You should do it for the experience, to learn on the job and to develop great relationships with practitioners.

Its not like magistrate judges do work that is not transferable to the real world. In fact, many cases are won and lost based on what you do before trial. Furthermore, in some districts, parties frequently consent to having their cases heard by magistrate judges so - in these areas you get the best of both world - you get the discovery prep work, and the "prestigious" writing opinions deal.

Not everyone comes out with great grades competitive for Art. III, but for a handful of firms that are big - maybe not the prestigious obnoxious egotistical firms - they value the skills you bring to the table more than your resume. Sell yourself.

Apply broadly. Look beyond Vault 100. But also ask your judge to help you out. They have tons of connections. Reach out to past clerks - find out what they did.

You are in a MUCH better position than 70+% of kids coming out of law school looking for jobs with 0 practical experience. Sure the market sucks, but you are bringing serious skills to the table. Speak with headhunters.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:14 am

a DNJ judge (camden/trenton) has just started hiring (just called about an interview) so the process may not be quite over yet

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:03 pm

Does anyone know if judge scirica is done?

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:31 pm

Any information from the S. D. Cal?

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any information from the S. D. Cal?


Huff is full; I've also heard that Battaglia and Anello are full for at least 2013 but that's unconfirmed.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:10 pm

For 3Ls who struck out, when is the next time to apply? March? May (while studying for the bar)?

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For 3Ls who struck out, when is the next time to apply? March? May (while studying for the bar)?


Graduating 3L's should aim to get their application packages out by the end of March. Keep any eye open for newly confirmed judges through the year.

-DoubleClerk

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Citizen Genet » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For 3Ls who struck out, when is the next time to apply? March? May (while studying for the bar)?


Graduating 3L's should aim to get their application packages out by the end of March. Keep any eye open for newly confirmed judges through the year.

-DoubleClerk


As a note on this, if Pres. Obama loses in November, don't expect any confirmations until about July or August.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby 84weeks » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:25 pm

Any movement from Vanaskie (3d Cir) this week?

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:23 pm

Just got a D. Ct. clerkship for next year and contemplating not accepting my offer to my firm from this summer. Didn't love the experience and more importantly it doesn't have a great rep for my desired practice area. I have a couple questions and any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.

For those who went through a similar thought process, how did you decide whether or not to pull the trigger on switching firms? I know I didn't love my firm, but how bad does it have to be to go to another firm permanently w/o the benefit of a summer's worth of knowledge?

There are a lot of other considerations involved, but I'm also curious how much money that decision could cost me. Would a firm I didn't summer with still pay for bar prep, moving expenses, clerkship bonus, etc.? Also, is there a good source for comparing clerkship bonuses firm to firm?

Thanks.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just got a D. Ct. clerkship for next year and contemplating not accepting my offer to my firm from this summer. Didn't love the experience and more importantly it doesn't have a great rep for my desired practice area. I have a couple questions and any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.

For those who went through a similar thought process, how did you decide whether or not to pull the trigger on switching firms? I know I didn't love my firm, but how bad does it have to be to go to another firm permanently w/o the benefit of a summer's worth of knowledge?

There are a lot of other considerations involved, but I'm also curious how much money that decision could cost me. Would a firm I didn't summer with still pay for bar prep, moving expenses, clerkship bonus, etc.? Also, is there a good source for comparing clerkship bonuses firm to firm?

Thanks.


The proper first step is to ask your judge how s/he prefers to handle firm offers. Some judges prefer that you ask the firm to close the offer and to re-extend the offer towards the end of your clerkship. Some judges allow you to have an open offer, but do not allow you to accept it. Some judges allow you to accept an offer, but not to accept any money or benefit from the firm. Finally, a some judges allow you to accept an offer and receive money from the firm prior to the clerkship, but the money cannot be a salary advance (these are considered loans).

The second step is to find out if your firm will allow you to accept/receive money, some will not.

If the firm will allow you to accept, then you need to decide whether or not you want to return there. If, as you say, you are sure that you do not want to return, then you should not accept the offer. You can ask them to leave the offer open. You can also consider trying to get a pre-clerkship SA if you want to try another firm.

I know this was asked in another thread, and to answer the question presented there - it is not ethical to accept an offer from a firm and receive money from them if you know that there is absolutely zero odds of you returning there. That's different, though, from changing your mind - this happens, and the most important thing to do if you accept and change your mind is to be honest with the prior firm and to talk to them well in advance of the start date.

-DoubleClerk

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:34 pm

Citizen Genet wrote:As a note on this, if Pres. Obama loses in November, don't expect any confirmations until about July or August.


If Obama wins, how quickly could confirmations get going again?

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Citizen Genet » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:02 pm

Tangerine Gleam wrote:
Citizen Genet wrote:As a note on this, if Pres. Obama loses in November, don't expect any confirmations until about July or August.


If Obama wins, how quickly could confirmations get going again?


I would expect ( but can't be sure ) that the Senate would move on some of the 17 nominees who have already cleared the judiciary during the lame duck session in November. Setting that aside, during Clinton's and Bush II's second terms, they started moving again in late March early April.

EDIT: For some reason said "late March early November." Meant "late March early April."
Last edited by Citizen Genet on Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:50 pm

Just accepted a two-year clerkship with a federal district judge and I didn't have an SA this past year. I've heard people mention this "pre-clerkship SA" thing; is it too late for me to apply for those? Should I be calling firms in the area and asking their recruiters if they're open to the idea?

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:57 pm

Find out whether I got a clerkship tomorrow. Nervous and hoping for the best news I've gotten in law school.




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