2012 Clerkship Application Thread

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:42 am

This talk of "objectively" measuring competitiveness through # of applications misses the whole point. 50 Harvard / Yale kids applying for 1 spot is far more competitive than 300 Georgetown kids applying for 1 spot - that's just a fact of life. There are exceptions to this generalization, but they are just that - exceptions. You can argue whether it's fair that H and Y dominate the clerkship market year after year, but that's a whole other conversation. So the easiest way to look at "competitiveness" would likely be to look at the hotbeds for Harvard, Yale and (maybe) Stanford students towards the top of their classes, since anyone else applying to these places is likely at a MUCH greater disadvantage than a Harvard or Yale person would be if they applied to places where lesser ranked schools do better. Is there a coastal - especially east coast - bias to this? Of course there is, just like there is for the ENTIRE LEGAL PROFESSION. (Indeed, this very thread refers to virtually everything else as a flyover district - and there's a reason for that.) So a cursory glance at the districts where Harvard has 3 or more clerks this year gives you the following districts (in approx. order of # of clerks): SDNY, DMA, CDCA, DNJ, EDNY, EDVA, SDFL, EDLA, DDC, NDIL, SDTX . It's safe to say these represent the bulk of the most "prestigious" district courts.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:03 pm

Anyone know YLS or SLS distributions? I would think SDNY and DDC, DC Cir 2d Cir and maybe ND CA. SD CA, and 9th Cir (for SLS) would lead the lists

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:13 pm

How is federal magistrate clerkship looked at compared to a district court clerkship? Is it still considered a Article III clerkship?

augusta1985
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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby augusta1985 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How is federal magistrate clerkship looked at compared to a district court clerkship? Is it still considered a Article III clerkship?


District Judge (Art. III) clerkships are more prestigious and are looked upon more favorably by employers. Mag clerkships are great experience - especially since the MJs deal with discovery, but there's definitely a pecking order between the DJ clerks and the MJ clerks.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:37 pm

Do firms give bonuses for the Bristow fellowship above what they would already give for the COA clerkship? I assume not full SCOTUS bonus but I would think something. No?

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:39 pm

Are you guys putting your upcoming clerkship on your resume? If so, how do you do it?

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nevdash
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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby nevdash » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Are you guys putting your upcoming clerkship on your resume? If so, how do you do it?

Yes.

United States District Court for the District of Blah
Judicial Law Clerk for District Judge Blah -- Beginning August 2013 - August 2014

Edit: Oh, if your question included how/whether to include anticipated duties: don't.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby ClerkAnon » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:02 pm

So a cursory glance at the districts where Harvard has 3 or more clerks this year gives you the following districts (in approx. order of # of clerks): SDNY, DMA, CDCA, DNJ, EDNY, EDVA, SDFL, EDLA, DDC, NDIL, SDTX . It's safe to say these represent the bulk of the most "prestigious" district courts.


You know, it's funny you mention this list, because it reminded me of hearing from several HLS students over the past couple of years that the school has apparently been having difficulty placing people in NDCA clerkships recently. Allegedly (according to these students), the perception over in Cambridge is that NDCA judges are increasingly favoring Stanford and Berkeley grads over Harvard grads. I haven't seen current lists of clerks, but assuming the truth of their perception, I highly doubt that a district that prioritizes Stanford (and Berkeley) over Harvard is "less prestigious" than a district that does the opposite.

All of this to say: if your court appears on one of these random prestige lists on TLS and it makes you feel good, right on. But understand that these TLS prestige barometers don't apply in the real world (which, among other things, does not refer to internal lists of Harvard and Yale clerks to figure out competitiveness or prestige.)

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby ClerkAnon » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How is federal magistrate clerkship looked at compared to a district court clerkship? Is it still considered a Article III clerkship?


I agree with the comments above regarding pecking order and the worthwhile experience you receive during a magistrate clerkship. However, to be clear, magistrate clerkships are not Article III clerkships.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby kalvano » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:12 pm

ClerkAnon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How is federal magistrate clerkship looked at compared to a district court clerkship? Is it still considered a Article III clerkship?


I agree with the comments above regarding pecking order and the worthwhile experience you receive during a magistrate clerkship. However, to be clear, magistrate clerkships are not Article III clerkships.



It's my understanding that it's easier to get an AIII D.ct. clerkship if you can clerk for another year after a mag clerkship though. Is that correct?

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby augusta1985 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:22 pm

kalvano wrote:
ClerkAnon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How is federal magistrate clerkship looked at compared to a district court clerkship? Is it still considered a Article III clerkship?


I agree with the comments above regarding pecking order and the worthwhile experience you receive during a magistrate clerkship. However, to be clear, magistrate clerkships are not Article III clerkships.



It's my understanding that it's easier to get an AIII D.ct. clerkship if you can clerk for another year after a mag clerkship though. Is that correct?


Generally, yes. Many of the DJ clerks in my court came from MJ clerkships. I'm assuming a phone call from an MJ saying "Hey, I've got this great guy/gal clerking for me and I think he/she'd be great fit in your chambers" goes a lot further than a LOR from some professor. This is especially true for judges that tend to hire off plan or who don't use OSCAR.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You can argue whether it's fair that H and Y dominate the clerkship market year after year, but that's a whole other conversation. So the easiest way to look at "competitiveness" would likely be to look at the hotbeds for Harvard, Yale and (maybe) Stanford students towards the top of their classes, since anyone else applying to these places is likely at a MUCH greater disadvantage than a Harvard or Yale person would be if they applied to places where lesser ranked schools do better.


Blatant pro-HLS trolling.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:41 pm

nevdash wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are you guys putting your upcoming clerkship on your resume? If so, how do you do it?

Yes.

United States District Court for the District of Blah
Judicial Law Clerk for District Judge Blah -- Beginning August 2013 - August 2014

Edit: Oh, if your question included how/whether to include anticipated duties: don't.


Thanks. Was just wondering whether to put (anticipated) or anything next to the position. Definitely wasn't going to fill in any duties.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby ClerkAnon » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do firms give bonuses for the Bristow fellowship above what they would already give for the COA clerkship? I assume not full SCOTUS bonus but I would think something. No?


Interesting question, but I'm not sure anyone here will be able to give you an answer. There are four Bristows a year, and usually some of them are coming from or heading to a SCOTUS clerkship (i.e., they'd just collect the SCOTUS bonus if they went to a firm.) And at least some Bristows want to stay with the government rather than going to firms. Given how few people are in the situation you describe, I'm betting that most firms don't have a fixed policy on this, and non-SCOTUS-clerk Bristows who want to go to firms have to negotiate this individually. But if there are any anon Bristows hanging around this thread, I'd be curious to hear their answers.

(It never occurred to me to ask my firm about this prior to applying, because the odds are so slim (as was the envelope I received from OSG, actually :)) - and it'd have been a weird hypothetical conversation to have, especially in the middle of the recession: "So, just in case I get a Bristow after my COA clerkship, and then want to come back to this firm, how much past 50K can you sweeten the deal?")

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:24 am

Got a call from Stotler (C.D. Cal.) on Monday. Had to decline (already accepted a 2013 position) but apparently judges are still calling!

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:24 pm

I keep getting random emails from oscar about postings for 2013 clerkships... i dont get it.. isnt it so late? i think most are magistrates, but still.. and i think i saw one for a DC last week too?

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I keep getting random emails from oscar about postings for 2013 clerkships... i dont get it.. isnt it so late? i think most are magistrates, but still.. and i think i saw one for a DC last week too?


Some of these are for "temporary" (unpaid) clerkships, I think. I saw at least one that was like this. By the way, do unpaid clerks have to make it clear that they were unpaid on their resumes or can they make it look like they were normal clerks?

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby nevdash » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I keep getting random emails from oscar about postings for 2013 clerkships... i dont get it.. isnt it so late? i think most are magistrates, but still.. and i think i saw one for a DC last week too?


Some of these are for "temporary" (unpaid) clerkships, I think. I saw at least one that was like this. By the way, do unpaid clerks have to make it clear that they were unpaid on their resumes or can they make it look like they were normal clerks?

I can't imagine anyone would take unpaid positions if they didn't get the resume boost of a normal term clerkship.

A question related to pay: how does the JSP scale work if you're not in a city specifically listed in a table title? Are you just JSP 11-1 on the base table: http://www.uscourts.gov/Careers/Compens ... /JSP00.pdf

Or do you get a percentage bump from that? Or do you look at the table for the nearest major city/area? I would normally assume that it would just be JSP 11-1 on the base table, but when trying to Google one of my judge's former clerks, I came across a job posting on the court's website from last year. The starting salary was listed as JSP-11, but they also gave a number that was more than JSP 11-1 on the base table.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:31 pm

nevdash wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I keep getting random emails from oscar about postings for 2013 clerkships... i dont get it.. isnt it so late? i think most are magistrates, but still.. and i think i saw one for a DC last week too?


Some of these are for "temporary" (unpaid) clerkships, I think. I saw at least one that was like this. By the way, do unpaid clerks have to make it clear that they were unpaid on their resumes or can they make it look like they were normal clerks?

I can't imagine anyone would take unpaid positions if they didn't get the resume boost of a normal term clerkship.

A question related to pay: how does the JSP scale work if you're not in a city specifically listed in a table title? Are you just JSP 11-1 on the base table: http://www.uscourts.gov/Careers/Compens ... /JSP00.pdf

Or do you get a percentage bump from that? Or do you look at the table for the nearest major city/area? I would normally assume that it would just be JSP 11-1 on the base table, but when trying to Google one of my judge's former clerks, I came across a job posting on the court's website from last year. The starting salary was listed as JSP-11, but they also gave a number that was more than JSP 11-1 on the base table.

If you're not in a city listed in a table title, you get the "Rest of the United States" rate: http://www.uscourts.gov/Careers/Compens ... /JSP01.pdf
(It's higher than the base rate but sadly, I think it's lower than everywhere else.)

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nevdash
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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby nevdash » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:58 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
nevdash wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I keep getting random emails from oscar about postings for 2013 clerkships... i dont get it.. isnt it so late? i think most are magistrates, but still.. and i think i saw one for a DC last week too?


Some of these are for "temporary" (unpaid) clerkships, I think. I saw at least one that was like this. By the way, do unpaid clerks have to make it clear that they were unpaid on their resumes or can they make it look like they were normal clerks?

I can't imagine anyone would take unpaid positions if they didn't get the resume boost of a normal term clerkship.

A question related to pay: how does the JSP scale work if you're not in a city specifically listed in a table title? Are you just JSP 11-1 on the base table: http://www.uscourts.gov/Careers/Compens ... /JSP00.pdf

Or do you get a percentage bump from that? Or do you look at the table for the nearest major city/area? I would normally assume that it would just be JSP 11-1 on the base table, but when trying to Google one of my judge's former clerks, I came across a job posting on the court's website from last year. The starting salary was listed as JSP-11, but they also gave a number that was more than JSP 11-1 on the base table.

If you're not in a city listed in a table title, you get the "Rest of the United States" rate: http://www.uscourts.gov/Careers/Compens ... /JSP01.pdf
(It's higher than the base rate but sadly, I think it's lower than everywhere else.)

Got it, thanks. ~$8k/yr bump is a pleasant surprise. Why do they have a base table if nobody actually receives that base salary?

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Anyone know when the courts of appeal interview for staff attorney positions? Particularly 3rd circuit

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Citizen Genet » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:59 am

So we talked about the election impact on nominations. I originally predicted if the Senate and White House stayed in Dem control, they would push through the roughly 20 nominees that have passed the S. Judiciary committee. Does not look like that will happen: http://www.rollcall.com/news/republican ... 195-1.html . There is a chance, but if Orin Hatch is saying no, my guess is most repubs will fall in line. That means Pres. Obama will have to renominate them and the earliest I would expect any judge to take a seat is April. But then again, I thought the Republicans wouldn't put up a hissy fit about a bunch of unobjectionable nominations.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:While any district court rankings are obviously subjective, I'm not quite sure what it means to say prestige is "hardly done on a district court basis." I don't think anyone would argue there are certain district courts that would be more "prestigious" (and I mean that in the superficial way law students usually do) than other district courts, and even more prestigious than some circuit courts (see S.D.N.Y. versus most circuit courts not named DC, 2nd, or 9th). Surely there are exceptions within both district and circuit courts for some more notable judges, but I do think it's possible to generalize by court - including district court - to a certain extent. That said, would be interested in getting people's take on what they think are the best district courts from a prestige perspective. Here's how I would rank the top 10:

1. SDNY
2. DDC
3. CDCA
4. EDNY
5. NDIL
6. NDCA
7. EDVA
8. DMA
9. SDFL
10. DNJ

Others that could be thrown into the top-ten, depending on your coastal bias: SDCA, PAE, EDTX (for patent stuff), EDLA


Random question: Why is the EDNY rated so highly (almost on par with SDNY)? Every other district, except EDVA, at least covers a major metropolitan area. And the other districts, like EDVA, at least have special focus (rocket docket, national security). EDNY seems pretty random and marginal.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:While any district court rankings are obviously subjective, I'm not quite sure what it means to say prestige is "hardly done on a district court basis." I don't think anyone would argue there are certain district courts that would be more "prestigious" (and I mean that in the superficial way law students usually do) than other district courts, and even more prestigious than some circuit courts (see S.D.N.Y. versus most circuit courts not named DC, 2nd, or 9th). Surely there are exceptions within both district and circuit courts for some more notable judges, but I do think it's possible to generalize by court - including district court - to a certain extent. That said, would be interested in getting people's take on what they think are the best district courts from a prestige perspective. Here's how I would rank the top 10:

1. SDNY
2. DDC
3. CDCA
4. EDNY
5. NDIL
6. NDCA
7. EDVA
8. DMA
9. SDFL
10. DNJ

Others that could be thrown into the top-ten, depending on your coastal bias: SDCA, PAE, EDTX (for patent stuff), EDLA


Random question: Why is the EDNY rated so highly (almost on par with SDNY)? Every other district, except EDVA, at least covers a major metropolitan area. And the other districts, like EDVA, at least have special focus (rocket docket, national security). EDNY seems pretty random and marginal.

Are you mixing up EDNY and WDNY? Because last I checked, Brooklyn (EDNY - main courthouse at least) was in a major metropolitan area.

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Re: 2012 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:32 pm

The EDNY and SDNY courthouses are like 2-3 miles away from one another




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