2012 Clerkship Application Thread Forum

[84weeks]

E.D.Pa.:
Someone said that Schiller and Yohn (and maybe someone else) had called, but there are a lot who haven't been mentioned. Has anyone heard about:
Buckwalter, Davis, Diamond, Jones, Joyner, Kelly, McLaughlin, Robreno, Rufe, Shapiro, Slomsky, Surrick, Tucker

(Or, alternatively, are any of these known to be out of the business of hiring term clerks?)

McLaughlin's posting has disappeared - not that it's been marked as "filled" - but it actually is no longer listed on OSCAR at all. Her "Judge Details" state "Judge McLaughlin is not hiring for 2013-2014 at this time." OSCAR says the most recent updates were made on Sept. 7.

[Anonymous User]

Per her chambers, Judge Schroeder (9th) won't start dealing with her clerkships (I couldn't tell if the JA said 'reviewing' or 'interviewing') until later in the fall/early winter.

Wow, you seriously made my day by sharing that. She is my top choice and if I don't get a clerkship through one of the interviews I have next week I will hold out hope for her.

[Anonymous User]

I know the general rule is you don't say no to a judge, but does that apply if you applied for a clerkship beginning in 2013 and they offer you one for 2014? Are you still obligated to accept even if the offer is for a year out and wasn't advertised as such?

Speaking as a former clerk who did not accept every offer received, you aren't "obligated to accept" at all, and certainly not if they offer you a clerkship different than the one for which you applied. Considerations to bear in mind when turning down offers, in addition to the above anon's sound advice to keep things gracious:

- You may come up empty-handed and regret your decision not to take the clerkship that seemed somewhat less than ideal (e.g., not the term you were looking for);
- You may have more difficulty in receiving an offer from other judges on the same court;
- You may be making things more difficult for future clerks from your school, at least according to various CSOs. I am not fully convinced that this is true, unless you're part of a widespread phenomenon in which 3Ls or alums at your school become especially known for rampantly turning down offers. I certainly have never heard a judge mention overtly that they are biased against a particular law school's students because a 3L once turned down an offer.

I turned down two offers for district court clerkships when I was applying, both in districts where I did not intend to practice. One of them was for a term slightly different than I wanted (six months later, not a full year later.) The other was for the term for which I applied. I'm now a few years into a litigation career. There have been no consequences to my decision - beyond my remaining available to receive and accept a clerkship in the district in which I really wanted to clerk. Needless to say, if I had not gotten the subsequent offer, I'd have felt that consequence #1 above applied. And if I intended to practice in the districts in question, prior to turning down the offers, I would have taken into account the awkwardness of appearing in front of the judges whose offers I had rejected.

ClerkAnon

When you turned down the offer for the term you applied for, was it because something happened during the interview that made you think you wouldn't like clerking there? Or did you get more interviews than you had expected and felt confident you'd land something else?

The latter. Specifically, I had two interviews scheduled in the California district in which I was most interested, because I knew I wanted to settle down and practice there. I had a very strong intuition that - while any federal clerkship is valuable - it would be especially valuable to clerk in the district where I planned to live. I thought this would be somewhat useful to the BigLaw firms I planned to interview with during my clerkship. More importantly, I knew that I wanted to move to the public sector, and I thought that an in-district clerkship would be especially attractive to the government offices that were my long-term dream jobs. A secondary consideration was that the California judges were active and the East Coast clerkship that I turned down was with a senior judge with a reduced caseload; I wanted the "full clerkship experience" rather than a more lifestyle-oriented clerkship with fewer hours per week. It wasn't that I felt confident/arrogant about landing a California clerkship - I knew that I was taking a huge risk in turning down a bird in the hand. But I was nervously willing to take that risk.

FWIW, my personal experience has been that my 3L intuition was correct. The firms valued the in-district clerkship, but the public sector (where I now work) responded even more enthusiastically. My practice is now geared primarily towards the CA district courts and the Ninth Circuit. It was very helpful to be able to make the case to employers (supplemented with reference calls from my judges) that I had two solid years of experience working for the specific courts in front of which they practiced.

ClerkAnon

[Anonymous User]

E.D.Pa.:
Someone said that Schiller and Yohn (and maybe someone else) had called, but there are a lot who haven't been mentioned. Has anyone heard about:
Buckwalter, Davis, Diamond, Jones, Joyner, Kelly, McLaughlin, Robreno, Rufe, Shapiro, Slomsky, Surrick, Tucker

(Or, alternatively, are any of these known to be out of the business of hiring term clerks?)

Same poster here. Forget to ask about my Camden peeps as well — Hillman and Rodriguez?

Hillman is not hiring.
Rodriguez may be hiring, but it is off-plan.
Bumb only wants prior legal/judicial experience even if the posting says its preferred. She also may be interviewing already.

[Anonymous User]

E.D.Pa.:
Someone said that Schiller and Yohn (and maybe someone else) had called, but there are a lot who haven't been mentioned. Has anyone heard about:
Buckwalter, Davis, Diamond, Jones, Joyner, Kelly, McLaughlin, Robreno, Rufe, Shapiro, Slomsky, Surrick, Tucker

(Or, alternatively, are any of these known to be out of the business of hiring term clerks?)

Same poster here. Forget to ask about my Camden peeps as well — Hillman and Rodriguez?

I think Hillman might have posted on OSCAR that he is not hiring. Don't know about Rodriguez. I know Irenas' clerk told me yesterday that they filled the position with a former summer intern.

Does anyone know about Bumb (Camden)?

Yes, Hillman posted that on OSCAR on 9/4 with a healthy dose of all-caps.

[Anonymous User]

I know the general rule is you don't say no to a judge, but does that apply if you applied for a clerkship beginning in 2013 and they offer you one for 2014? Are you still obligated to accept even if the offer is for a year out and wasn't advertised as such?

This happened to me and instead of saying no outright, I simply listed all the reasons I wanted to work for the judge then ended by saying that I would much prefer the year I wanted to the year the judge suggested and giving a really good reason why. I got the year I wanted. As a general rule, go the judge's way, but if you have a strong reason for preferring one year over the other, then communicate that. In my case, personal reasons made it impossible for me to clerk in a different year than the one I applied for.

[Anonymous User]

Apropos the last post, also don't assume if you get the second-choice slot that you are a second-choice candidate. That happened to me (I applied for a 2011 clerkship and got a 2012 one), and after working in chambers for a month now, I came upon info suggesting that I was the top candidate -- it's just that I had a job that could tide me over for a year, and my co-clerk who started before me didn't.

[Anonymous User]

Anderson on the 11th called.

[frank galvin]

For those judges who do an initial interview with a career clerk, and a callback type interview with the actual judge, any clue how many candidates will actually meet with the judge? I can imagine it varies, but generally?

[Anonymous User]

For those having success (any interviews), can you please indicate whether you (1) had a connection to the judge (prof knows them personally, etc.), (2) had recommenders without a connection to the judge call them, or (3) personalized your cover letter toward the judge.

NOTE: this opinion is limited to competitive CoA (i.e. DC, 2nd Cir., etc.) and D. Cts. (i.e. SDNY, DDC, CDCA, etc.); I don't know if my opinions expressed in this post apply to flyover district court judges or magistrates.

I personally don't know if it is possible to get an interview nowadays (at either the CoA or a competitive D. Ct.) if the judge doesn't at least receive some sort of call from one of your professors. Of course I'm pretty sure if you are EIC of the Yale Law Journal, you probably won't need anyone to make calls and your applications automatically jumps to the top of the pile. But almost everyone else, even top 5% at a T6 will need someone to call the judge to have almost any chance at an interview.

Yeah, this is total bullshit.

[Anonymous User]

For those having success (any interviews), can you please indicate whether you (1) had a connection to the judge (prof knows them personally, etc.), (2) had recommenders without a connection to the judge call them, or (3) personalized your cover letter toward the judge.

NOTE: this opinion is limited to competitive CoA (i.e. DC, 2nd Cir., etc.) and D. Cts. (i.e. SDNY, DDC, CDCA, etc.); I don't know if my opinions expressed in this post apply to flyover district court judges or magistrates.

I personally don't know if it is possible to get an interview nowadays (at either the CoA or a competitive D. Ct.) if the judge doesn't at least receive some sort of call from one of your professors. Of course I'm pretty sure if you are EIC of the Yale Law Journal, you probably won't need anyone to make calls and your applications automatically jumps to the top of the pile. But almost everyone else, even top 5% at a T6 will need someone to call the judge to have almost any chance at an interview.

Yeah, this is total bullshit.

Seconded. My experience this week directly contradicts this.

[Anonymous User]

For those having success (any interviews), can you please indicate whether you (1) had a connection to the judge (prof knows them personally, etc.), (2) had recommenders without a connection to the judge call them, or (3) personalized your cover letter toward the judge.

NOTE: this opinion is limited to competitive CoA (i.e. DC, 2nd Cir., etc.) and D. Cts. (i.e. SDNY, DDC, CDCA, etc.); I don't know if my opinions expressed in this post apply to flyover district court judges or magistrates.

I personally don't know if it is possible to get an interview nowadays (at either the CoA or a competitive D. Ct.) if the judge doesn't at least receive some sort of call from one of your professors. Of course I'm pretty sure if you are EIC of the Yale Law Journal, you probably won't need anyone to make calls and your applications automatically jumps to the top of the pile. But almost everyone else, even top 5% at a T6 will need someone to call the judge to have almost any chance at an interview.

Yeah, this is total bullshit.

Seconded. My experience this week directly contradicts this.

Thirded. I've talked to people with less than stellar stats who have gotten a few interviews at the D.Ct. level, and I got BK/Mag interviews with much less than stellar stats. All of the interviews above are in competitive jurisdictions (some more competitive than others, but none in Wyoming). My point -- Don't freak out just yet if you haven't heard back yet and you don't have a 3.9 and the dean of Harvard making phone calls on your behalf.

[Anonymous User]

For those having success (any interviews), can you please indicate whether you (1) had a connection to the judge (prof knows them personally, etc.), (2) had recommenders without a connection to the judge call them, or (3) personalized your cover letter toward the judge.

NOTE: this opinion is limited to competitive CoA (i.e. DC, 2nd Cir., etc.) and D. Cts. (i.e. SDNY, DDC, CDCA, etc.); I don't know if my opinions expressed in this post apply to flyover district court judges or magistrates.

I personally don't know if it is possible to get an interview nowadays (at either the CoA or a competitive D. Ct.) if the judge doesn't at least receive some sort of call from one of your professors. Of course I'm pretty sure if you are EIC of the Yale Law Journal, you probably won't need anyone to make calls and your applications automatically jumps to the top of the pile. But almost everyone else, even top 5% at a T6 will need someone to call the judge to have almost any chance at an interview.

Yeah, this is total bullshit.

Thirded. I've talked to people with less than stellar stats who have gotten a few interviews at the D.Ct. level, and I got BK/Mag interviews with much less than stellar stats. All of the interviews above are in competitive jurisdictions (some more competitive than others, but none in Wyoming). My point -- Don't freak out just yet if you haven't heard back yet and you don't have a 3.9 and the dean of Harvard making phone calls on your behalf.

Yeah, I'm kind of bummed that I took advice similar to the one you guys are disagreeing with. A friend told me all that matters are the judges for whom calls are made, so I didn't apply to too many on OSCAR thinking it wouldn't make any difference. Now I'm sitting here with a silent phone while less-credentialed friends are getting D.Ct. interviews in somewhat desirable districts.

[Anonymous User]

NOTE: this opinion is limited to competitive CoA (i.e. DC, 2nd Cir., etc.) and D. Cts. (i.e. SDNY, DDC, CDCA, etc.); I don't know if my opinions expressed in this post apply to flyover district court judges or magistrates.

I personally don't know if it is possible to get an interview nowadays (at either the CoA or a competitive D. Ct.) if the judge doesn't at least receive some sort of call from one of your professors. Of course I'm pretty sure if you are EIC of the Yale Law Journal, you probably won't need anyone to make calls and your applications automatically jumps to the top of the pile. But almost everyone else, even top 5% at a T6 will need someone to call the judge to have almost any chance at an interview.

Yeah, this is total bullshit.

Seconded. My experience this week directly contradicts this.

Thirded. I've talked to people with less than stellar stats who have gotten a few interviews at the D.Ct. level, and I got BK/Mag interviews with much less than stellar stats. All of the interviews above are in competitive jurisdictions (some more competitive than others, but none in Wyoming). My point -- Don't freak out just yet if you haven't heard back yet and you don't have a 3.9 and the dean of Harvard making phone calls on your behalf.

Did these people with less than stellar stats get SDNY or DDC interviews? Did they get 2nd Cir. or DC Cir. interviews? My original point earlier clearly said this was limited to those kind of clerkships. I have no experience as it relates to EDVA or 5th Cir. clerkships for example. Which are great, but I don't think are in the same class as the other spots I mentioned.

There are so few spots at places like DDC and the 2nd Cir. now that I find it hard to believe that folks can get interviews there with "less than stellar stats" as you said without the judge having a personal connection with the recommenders. Maybe I'm wrong, but I find it hard to believe.

[Anonymous User]

Seconded. My experience this week directly contradicts this.

Thirded. I've talked to people with less than stellar stats who have gotten a few interviews at the D.Ct. level, and I got BK/Mag interviews with much less than stellar stats. All of the interviews above are in competitive jurisdictions (some more competitive than others, but none in Wyoming). My point -- Don't freak out just yet if you haven't heard back yet and you don't have a 3.9 and the dean of Harvard making phone calls on your behalf.

Did these people with less than stellar stats get SDNY or DDC interviews? Did they get 2nd Cir. or DC Cir. interviews? My original point earlier clearly said this was limited to those kind of clerkships. I have no experience as it relates to EDVA or 5th Cir. clerkships for example. Which are great, but I don't think are in the same class as the other spots I mentioned.

There are so few spots at places like DDC and the 2nd Cir. now that I find it hard to believe that folks can get interviews there with "less than stellar stats" as you said without the judge having a personal connection with the recommenders. Maybe I'm wrong, but I find it hard to believe.

I got interviews in competitive circuits (both 2 and 9) and districts without connections, and I'm not EIC at Yale. Your point was valuable, you just vastly overstated it. No one doubts that connections are really important, but they aren't necessary. Maybe youre right with respect to DC, I got nothing there, but my school places terribly in DC anyway.

[Anonymous User]

Have people wo calls already given up? If not, when do you think we can safely assume that nothing's coming?

[Anonymous User]

Have people wo calls already given up? If not, when do you think we can safely assume that nothing's coming?

For the competitive districts, yes. For the "lesser" competitive districts, sort of. Judges know the deal with the plan and it's in their best interest to get the pick of the candidates when the floodgates opened on Friday.

[Anonymous User]

Have people wo calls already given up? If not, when do you think we can safely assume that nothing's coming?

For the competitive districts, yes. For the "lesser" competitive districts, sort of. Judges know the deal with the plan and it's in their best interest to get the pick of the candidates when the floodgates opened on Friday.

I think it's fair to say that I can assume I won't get a call. I don't doubt that there may be more calls going out, but the chances that I personally will get a call are probably 90% lower than they were 2 days ago.

[Anonymous User]

Question: In preparation for an interview, what is the best practice for locating some of a particular judge's most well-known opinions? I clicked on the judge's name in Westlaw, and thousands of cases (organized by date) came up. Is there any way to filter a judge's opinions in terms of citations or something?

I would just like to get a rough idea of some of the judge's most important opinions over his/her 20 years on the bench. I'm not going to nerd out and go in to the interview expecting to discuss any of the decisions, but I still think it could helpful as far as giving me some good background on how he/she operates.

[Anonymous User]

Question: In preparation for an interview, what is the best practice for locating some of a particular judge's most well-known opinions? I clicked on the judge's name in Westlaw, and thousands of cases (organized by date) came up. Is there any way to filter a judge's opinions in terms of citations or something?

I would just like to get a rough idea of some of the judge's most important opinions over his/her 20 years on the bench. I'm not going to nerd out and go in to the interview expecting to discuss any of the decisions, but I still think it could helpful as far as giving me some good background on how he/she operates.

See which have the most citing references?

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, this is total bullshit.

Seconded. My experience this week directly contradicts this.

Thirded. I've talked to people with less than stellar stats who have gotten a few interviews at the D.Ct. level, and I got BK/Mag interviews with much less than stellar stats. All of the interviews above are in competitive jurisdictions (some more competitive than others, but none in Wyoming). My point -- Don't freak out just yet if you haven't heard back yet and you don't have a 3.9 and the dean of Harvard making phone calls on your behalf.

Did these people with less than stellar stats get SDNY or DDC interviews? Did they get 2nd Cir. or DC Cir. interviews? My original point earlier clearly said this was limited to those kind of clerkships. I have no experience as it relates to EDVA or 5th Cir. clerkships for example. Which are great, but I don't think are in the same class as the other spots I mentioned.

There are so few spots at places like DDC and the 2nd Cir. now that I find it hard to believe that folks can get interviews there with "less than stellar stats" as you said without the judge having a personal connection with the recommenders. Maybe I'm wrong, but I find it hard to believe.

EDVA (Alexandria division) is certainly in the "same class" as DDC and there are judges in the 5th who are in the same "class" as 2d Cir.

Now having gone through 2 rounds of clerkship hiring (for 2 clerkships) I think I can speak fairly confidently on this point:

About 50% of interview offers were from judges with whom I had some sort of connection - i.e., prof called or I knew/spoke with a current or former clerk. The other 50% were from judges with whom I had 0 connections - some of these were judges who either never hired from my school or who hadn't hired in 5+ years from my school. I think where calls are most helpful / essential are where you are a marginal candidate. If you are solidly within the grade/school range for a judge, it might help, but it certainly isn't necessary. And, before the poster tries to relegate my experience to flyover COAs, I got interview offers without connections for judges in the 2/9.

[madame defarge]

Question: In preparation for an interview, what is the best practice for locating some of a particular judge's most well-known opinions? I clicked on the judge's name in Westlaw, and thousands of cases (organized by date) came up. Is there any way to filter a judge's opinions in terms of citations or something?

I would just like to get a rough idea of some of the judge's most important opinions over his/her 20 years on the bench. I'm not going to nerd out and go in to the interview expecting to discuss any of the decisions, but I still think it could helpful as far as giving me some good background on how he/she operates.

The Almanac of the Federal Judiciary sometimes lists a judge's significant cases. It's available on westlaw (AFJ).

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know if Judge Blake (DMD) has made any calls?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know if Judge Blake (DMD) has made any calls?

I would assume she has. In years past, she has tag-teamed interviewed with Judge F. Motz.

[Anonymous User]

I assume since Judge Nguyen on the 9th is not on the outstanding list there is confirmation she has made calls? If so, for both 13 and 14?