Denver legal market?

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Denver legal market?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:08 am

Greetings,

Does anyone have firsthand knowledge of the legal market and the legal community in Denver? If so, would you be able to provide some insights? I have done research on NALP, Vault, and Chambers, but I looking to learn as much as I can before heading into OCI.

Many Thanks!

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LeDique
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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby LeDique » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:14 am

Could you be a little more specific about what you want to know?

Yet another great use of anon.

turbotong
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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby turbotong » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:37 am

I'm sure there are a lot of personal injury and medical malpractice clinics near the ski resorts.

dudders
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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby dudders » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:07 am

turbotong wrote:I'm sure there are a lot of personal injury and medical malpractice clinics near the ski resorts.


Yet another useless comment by someone who has no idea what they're talking about.
Try: http://www.dora.state.co.us/tramway/SkiSafetyAct.pdf
And a map.

I can't really help with OCI info since I'm an undesirable and completely bombed out last year. Lots of small class sizes it seemed. I had one mass-mail screener with the Denver office of a V100, and they were down to 2 SAs - one 2L, and a diversity 1L from whatever the DU/CU program is.

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kalvano
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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby kalvano » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:42 am

The Denver legal market is, by all accounts, probably the toughest to crack. They want an insane amount of connections, and even then, it may not be enough.

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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:51 am

I summered in Denver two years ago, and would be happy to answer any specific questions about it. I was at one of the satellite offices of a V100 firm, but I also went through the process for a lot of the indigenous Denver firms.

I think Denver is one of the toughest large-ish markets in the country. At my firm, being from out west or doing undergrad in Colorado was enough of a tie; at others, the fact that I left for law school, even having grown up there, going to college there, and working there before law school, meant I wasn't serious enough about Denver to merit an offer.

There are also maybe 70 true SA slots in the city that aren't outright reserved for CU/DU kids. Probably fewer, to be honest. It's very, very difficult, but very worth it: the national firms pay either 145 or 160 there, which is like making 300 in NYC.

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LeDique
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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby LeDique » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:58 am

70 is a way overestimate if you're talking spots that aren't going to be taken by CU/DU. I'd say 70 is right with those spots included.

Actually, now that I've give it a seconds more thought - probably a bit high. I think about 15 CU students got SA's through OCI last year. No idea what DU's number was.

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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:17 pm

LeDique wrote:70 is a way overestimate if you're talking spots that aren't going to be taken by CU/DU. I'd say 70 is right with those spots included.

Actually, now that I've give it a seconds more thought - probably a bit high. I think about 15 CU students got SA's through OCI last year. No idea what DU's number was.


GDC takes 5-10, A&P 2-3, Patton 2-3, Hogan 5ish, DGS has 6-8, Greenberg/Sherman/Bryan Cave HRO each have 5ish, Faegre has 6, Kutak has 4-5, Reilly and Brownstein each have a couple...right there, that's between 40 and 55, and there are a lot of firms I'm either not sure about (Otten, Polsinelli, Holland, Kilpatrick, McKenna, etc.) that definitely have summer classes, or that take 1-2 folks. You could be right, since every one of those classes has a CU or DU person in it.

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LeDique
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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby LeDique » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:43 pm

Well, Sherman cancelled their summer program last year - I haven't asked if they're having one this year yet. They're not doing CU's OCI for whatever that's worth. Overall, I looked at most of these firm's NALP forms for OCI and I felt like most took 2-3 and really none took more than 5. Brownstein took 5. GDC has 7. A lot of your parenthetical list do only take 1-2. But I think the point we're in agreement on is there's not all too many spots available and it's going to be tough - we're just quibbling over the exact number.

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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:24 pm

From the OP:

Thank you to everyone for the info. I am aware that the market is difficult to get into. There's little I can do about that, and I do have several backup options in mind if I am not successful in getting a summer associate position in Denver.

As to specific questions: what are the major practice areas in the city? I have read that mining and energy law are big. Is that accurate? I have also read that there is significant work being done in the state with renewable energy sources. Has that translated into legal work in Denver, or are renewable energy companies still too few and too small to generate much business?

I've also read that there's been a lot of upheaval in the Denver legal market, for example, lateral moves, and delayed start dates. Is that sort of thing still going on? If so, is it negatively affecting the number of summer associate and associate positions available?

Finally, as far as long-term employment, do firms in Denver follow the same model as many of the firms in NYC/LA/Chicago of hiring lots of associates with the expectation that two-thirds of them (or more) will be gone after a few years, and that as few as 1 in 10 might make partner? Or do firms there tend to view associates as a long-term investment, with the expectation that most associates will stay with the firm long enough to make partner?

Many thanks!

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patrickd139
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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby patrickd139 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:35 pm

kalvano wrote:The Denver legal market is, by all accounts, probably the toughest to crack. They want an insane amount of connections, and even then, it may not be enough.

Truth. I personally know more than one person who has moved to Denver, passed the bar, and not been able to find J.D. required legal work.

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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:53 pm

On the toughness of breaking into the Denver market, anyone know if being from a nearby Mountain West state and also having attended UG in the Mountain West is sufficient for ties? Or am I fucked without direct Denver legal market connections and CO undergrad. Would love to practice in Denver and am attending CCN.

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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:On the toughness of breaking into the Denver market, anyone know if being from a nearby Mountain West state and also having attended UG in the Mountain West is sufficient for ties? Or am I fucked without direct Denver legal market connections and CO undergrad. Would love to practice in Denver and am attending CCN.


It will actually probably be easier for you to get a job with one of the national firms than it will one of the local firms. At one of the V100s last summer, only 1 of the summers was a Colorado native. The rest all were from the west, though.

Think seriously about spending 1L summer there (if you're an 0L). The Colorado AG has a great summer program which, while unpaid, would show your commitment to the city.

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sunynp
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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby sunynp » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:53 pm

Even if you are not looking for an SA, why not make a list of how many SAs there are in Denver? I did that when I was looking into possibly going to Alabama for personal reasons. The tiny numbers of SAs made me realize it would be almost impossible for me, without any real ties, to get a job. It was also the first time I realized that the Alabama firms hire a very high number of 1Ls and then bring them back as 2Ls.

I'm from NY and I was shocked at how few SAs there are, I knew if there were few SAs they were less likely to hire anyone outside of their program. I ended up changing my mind about Alabama as my personal situation changed.

I went to NALP and listed the firms and the number of SAs. Then I made a thread here and asked for specific corrections. People were very helpful about sharing their information as well as explaining to me that most firms split summers.

I think the same thing might happen to you if you ask about specific firm hiring in Denver. Denver is a much bigger city so there have to be more jobs than in Alabama.

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LeDique
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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby LeDique » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:00 pm

sunynp wrote:Even if you are not looking for an SA, why not make a list of how many SAs there are in Denver? I did that when I was looking into possibly going to Alabama for personal reasons. The tiny numbers of SAs made me realize it would be almost impossible for me, without any real ties, to get a job. It was also the first time I realized that the Alabama firms hire a very high number of 1Ls and then bring them back as 2Ls.

I'm from NY and I was shocked at how few SAs there are, I knew if there were few SAs they were less likely to hire anyone outside of their program. I ended up changing my mind about Alabama as my personal situation changed.

I went to NALP and listed the firms and the number of SAs. Then I made a thread here and asked for specific corrections. People were very helpful about sharing their information as well as explaining to me that most firms split summers.

I think the same thing might happen to you if you ask about specific firm hiring in Denver. Denver is a much bigger city so there have to be more jobs than in Alabama.


To that end, I'd be willing to send you the guide CU's CSO gives us for OCI that has a lot of the firms in one pdf. Just PM me.

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LeDique
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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby LeDique » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:03 pm

Greenberg also doesn't have an SA program in their Denver office anymore.

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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:31 pm

These estimates are way high. Yes, GDC had 7 summers this year. But two were diversity 1L positions and they normally have more like 2 or 3 summers. Other firms have 1 or 2. And I have also heard of extremely low offer rates at some of the big local firms, making Denver a very risky proposition. Many of the national firms don't have a summer program at all in most years. And most DO NOT pay market, despite what you've heard here. More like 115000 or so.

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mountaintime
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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby mountaintime » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:03 pm

There are like 30 SA spots in Denver. About 20 of those go to CU/DU students. Denver is super-difficult to break into.

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Mick Haller
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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby Mick Haller » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:59 pm

kalvano wrote:The Denver legal market is, by all accounts, probably the toughest to crack. They want an insane amount of connections, and even then, it may not be enough.

Q: What's the toughest legal market?
A: Mine

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Re: Denver legal market?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:17 pm

Gibson Dunn is having 3-4 summers this year, and at least 1 position has already been filled.




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