Which interviews to cancel?

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Perseus_I
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Which interviews to cancel?

Postby Perseus_I » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:34 pm

3.67, TLR, UT, ties to Bay Area, CA and East Texas (I have already cancelled Perkins, Chicago and Skadden, NY). I would like to end up in NY but would settle for Houston. I have about 7 preselects that did not make it onto my interview list and tons of alternates, so I have room to cancel. All 23 of the below are preselects.

At the NY job fair, interviewers seemed pretty skeptical of my desire to be in NY since my resume mostly has Texas on it. I want to cancel the interviews at which I am a reach based on my numbers (and lack of ties) to maximize my chances of getting callbacks. I have marked a few in bold that I am thinking of canceling.

Fulbright & Jaworski L.L.P. (Houston)
Bracewell & Giuliani LLP, (NY)
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP (Dallas)
Locke Lord LLP (Houston)
Baker Botts L.L.P. (Dallas)
Baker Botts L.L.P. (Palo Alto)
Baker Botts L.L.P. (Houston)
Baker & McKenzie (Houston)
Haynes and Boone, LLP (Houston)
Vinson & Elkins, L.L.P. (Houston)
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP (DC)
Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP (Houston)
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP (NY)
Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan, LLP (NY)
Porter & Hedges, L.L.P. (Houston)
Patton Boggs LLP (Dallas)
Shook, Hardy & Bacon L.L.P. (Houston)
Jones Day (1. NY; 2. SF; 3. Houston)
Sutherland (DC)
King & Spalding LLP (Houston)
Proskauer Rose, LLP (LA)
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP (NY)
SNR Denton LLP (Dallas)
Susman Godfrey (NY; Houston) (arranged through mass mailing, probably can't cancel)

Other preselects (not slotted):

Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP (Dallas, TX)
Ware Jackson Lee Chambers (Houston, TX)
Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan (SF)
Gardere Wynne Sewell LLP (Houston, TX)
GDC (SF)
Thompson & Knight L.L.P. (Dallas, TX)
Strasburger & Price, LLP (Dallas, TX)
Shell Oil Company (Houston, TX)
Gjerset & Lorenz, L.L.C. (Austin, TX)

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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:43 pm

nvm, misread your post

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Perseus_I
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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby Perseus_I » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:nvm, misread your post


Other preselects (not slotted):

Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP (Dallas, TX)
Ware Jackson Lee Chambers (Houston, TX)
Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan (SF)
Gardere Wynne Sewell LLP (Houston, TX)
GDC (SF)
Thompson & Knight L.L.P. (Dallas, TX)
Strasburger & Price, LLP (Dallas, TX)
Shell Oil Company (Houston, TX)
Gjerset & Lorenz, L.L.C. (Austin, TX)


These would presumably take the spots of any I cancelled. Especially if I talked to the CSO ahead of time to make sure I could cancel and replace instantly. Also, I got lots of what I think are YP alternates (Andrews Kurth, Houston; Gardere, Dallas). A lot. Like 20 alternates. I think my risks of canceling and ending up with less than 25 interviews are close to 0.

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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:19 pm

*IF* you really struggle with interviewing as much as you seem to think you do, you need to focus on offices with big class sizes. Generally speaking, "fit" becomes more important the smaller the class size.

For example, I believe F&J (Hou), V&E (Hou), BB (Hou), and HayBoo (Dal) are the four biggest summer classes in Texas. Those four offices will probably hire ~50 UT students. They'll probably need to give call backs to at least 80 unique students to get to that number. You have the credentials for all four firms, so they should be your targets.

On the other end of the spectrum, *if* you really struggle with interviewing, you'll have a hard time landing Patton Boggs - Dallas. Assuming their summer class stays at six next year, they'll probably hire 3 or 4 UT students and they won't need to give out that many callbacks. As a result, they'll probably be more worried about how your interview goes.

*If* you really are a bad interviewer, I would stay away from Gardere, TK, and Strasburger. IMHO, if you really struggle with interviewing, you'll have a tough time landing offers there. I assume you're thinking that your credentials are above average for who those firms normally hire, but it doesn't work like that. Those firms would rather focus on fit, even if it means hiring students with slightly less impressive credentials.

FYI: I did OCI last year and had offers from five of the firms I named in this post.

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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby bdubs » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:23 pm

Do you have to cancel? Why wouldn't you just want to interview at as many places as possible?

Also, this is purely a guess but I think you might have an easier time convincing the top end firms that you want to be there than safer firms. I'm guessing that most people at a V10 in NYC are generally going to anticipate that you want to be in New York because firms like theirs are in NYC. A mid-range vault firm will probably be more insecure about losing you. Just speculation though.
Last edited by bdubs on Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Perseus_I
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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby Perseus_I » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:25 pm

bdubs wrote:Do you have to cancel? Why wouldn't you just want to interview at as many places as possible?


We are capped at 25 interviews, and I got 34 preselects and about 20 alternates. Therefore, canceling would not (theoretically) reduce my number of interviews.

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Perseus_I
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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby Perseus_I » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:29 pm

bdubs wrote:Do you have to cancel? Why wouldn't you just want to interview at as many places as possible?

Also, this is purely a guess but I think you might have an easier time convincing the top end firms that you want to be there than safer firms. I'm guessing that most people at a V10 in NYC are generally going to anticipate that you want to be in New York because firms like theirs are in NYC. A mid-range vault firm will probably be more insecure about losing you. Just speculation though.


I just interviewed with a bunch of those NY firms, and many were skeptical about my desire to be there. My resume screams Texas. Either that or I'm just an awful interviewer, and that is my excuse for only getting 2 callbacks. Most likely, it was a combination of both. Based on my ties to TX, I do not think that mid-range TX firms would be skeptical of my desire to be there. Fit is another issue. But aren't ties a part of fit? I might ask about TK, Strasburger, and Gardere after my mock interview tomorrow. It could be my lack of "fit" in NYC is regional/cultural (saying "Yes sir" and "Yes ma'am" and being too polite)--and slight Southern accent-- as it is from having a quiet personality. In which case "fit" would be an advantage at mid-sized TX firms.
Last edited by Perseus_I on Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bdubs
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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby bdubs » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:31 pm

Perseus_I wrote:
bdubs wrote:Do you have to cancel? Why wouldn't you just want to interview at as many places as possible?

Also, this is purely a guess but I think you might have an easier time convincing the top end firms that you want to be there than safer firms. I'm guessing that most people at a V10 in NYC are generally going to anticipate that you want to be in New York because firms like theirs are in NYC. A mid-range vault firm will probably be more insecure about losing you. Just speculation though.


I just interviewed with a bunch of those NY firms, and many were skeptical about my desire to be there. My resume screams Texas. Either that or I'm just an awful interviewer, and that is my excuse for only getting 2 callbacks. Most likely, it was a combination of both. Based on my ties to TX, I do not think that mid-range TX firms would be skeptical of my desire to be there. Fit is another issue. But aren't ties a part of fit? I might ask about TK, Strasburger, and Gardere after my mock interview tomorrow.


I thought you were talking about shooting for mid-range NYC firms. If you're shooting for TX now your strategy doesn't seem so crazy, but I'm no TX expert.

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Perseus_I
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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby Perseus_I » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:40 pm

bdubs wrote:
Perseus_I wrote:
bdubs wrote:Do you have to cancel? Why wouldn't you just want to interview at as many places as possible?

Also, this is purely a guess but I think you might have an easier time convincing the top end firms that you want to be there than safer firms. I'm guessing that most people at a V10 in NYC are generally going to anticipate that you want to be in New York because firms like theirs are in NYC. A mid-range vault firm will probably be more insecure about losing you. Just speculation though.


I just interviewed with a bunch of those NY firms, and many were skeptical about my desire to be there. My resume screams Texas. Either that or I'm just an awful interviewer, and that is my excuse for only getting 2 callbacks. Most likely, it was a combination of both. Based on my ties to TX, I do not think that mid-range TX firms would be skeptical of my desire to be there. Fit is another issue. But aren't ties a part of fit? I might ask about TK, Strasburger, and Gardere after my mock interview tomorrow.


I thought you were talking about shooting for mid-range NYC firms. If you're shooting for TX now your strategy doesn't seem so crazy, but I'm no TX expert.


How about canceling 3 (S&C, Quinn E, and Patton Boggs) and slotting in these 3?

Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan (SF) - OR GDC (SF). I have ties, very strong ties to the Bay Area.
Gardere Wynne Sewell LLP (Houston, TX) - everyone keeps saying no, but it's not like I have a ton of other Houston options.
Shell Oil Company (Houston, TX) - First question (put more diplomatically): "Does this lead to a permanent job?"

Or, replace Shell with:

Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP (Dallas, TX) OR Ware Jackson. I got an offer from an Austin Lit Boutique for 1L, which I turned down to work for a fed district judge in another city, so it's possible I could get Ware Jackson, or even Susman Godfrey, for that matter -- to split the summer with a larger firm.

But that Austin offer was a relaxed, chatty affair in the hiring attorney's office. Not one of a series of high-pressure 20 minute, back-to-back interviews. Could that make a difference?

bdubs
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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby bdubs » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:56 pm

Perseus_I wrote:
bdubs wrote:
Perseus_I wrote:
bdubs wrote:Do you have to cancel? Why wouldn't you just want to interview at as many places as possible?

Also, this is purely a guess but I think you might have an easier time convincing the top end firms that you want to be there than safer firms. I'm guessing that most people at a V10 in NYC are generally going to anticipate that you want to be in New York because firms like theirs are in NYC. A mid-range vault firm will probably be more insecure about losing you. Just speculation though.


I just interviewed with a bunch of those NY firms, and many were skeptical about my desire to be there. My resume screams Texas. Either that or I'm just an awful interviewer, and that is my excuse for only getting 2 callbacks. Most likely, it was a combination of both. Based on my ties to TX, I do not think that mid-range TX firms would be skeptical of my desire to be there. Fit is another issue. But aren't ties a part of fit? I might ask about TK, Strasburger, and Gardere after my mock interview tomorrow.


I thought you were talking about shooting for mid-range NYC firms. If you're shooting for TX now your strategy doesn't seem so crazy, but I'm no TX expert.


How about canceling 3 (S&C, Quinn E, and Patton Boggs) and slotting in these 3?

Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan (SF) - OR GDC (SF). I have ties, very strong ties to the Bay Area.
Gardere Wynne Sewell LLP (Houston, TX) - everyone keeps saying no, but it's not like I have a ton of other Houston options.
Shell Oil Company (Houston, TX) - First question: "Does this lead to a permanent job?"

Or, replace Shell with:

Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP (Dallas, TX) OR Ware Jackson. I got an offer from an Austin Lit Boutique for 1L, which I turned down to work for a fed district judge in another city, so it's possible I could get Ware Jackson, or even Susman Godfrey, for that matter -- to split the summer with a larger firm.

But that Austin offer was a relaxed, chatty affair in the hiring attorney's office. Not one of a series of high-pressure 20 minute, back-to-back interviews. Could that make a difference?


I wouldn't substitute Shell for any of those 3. IIRC S&C is known for being very grades focused and not very heavy on interview performance, so if your grades are usually good enough for a CB at S&C then I would keep them. Can Quinn see that you switched cities on them? Don't know anything about Gardere.

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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby thesealocust » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:02 pm

It might be smart to drop the DC firms. They're generally much harder to get just based on numbers and also looking for strong ties or reasons to be in DC.

Maybe even the same for NYC.

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Perseus_I
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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby Perseus_I » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:08 pm

thesealocust wrote:It might be smart to drop the DC firms. They're generally much harder to get just based on numbers and also looking for strong ties or reasons to be in DC.

Maybe even the same for NYC.


I don't have enough other preselects to risk dropping all the NYC firms.

So drop:

1. Cadwalader
2. Quinn Emanuel
3. Bracewell & Giuliani LLP, (NY)
4. S&C

Replace with:

1. GDC (SF)
2. Gardere (Houston - relatively large class size)
3. Ware Jackson
4. Thompson & Knight L.L.P. (Dallas, TX)

I actually worked in D.C. for nearly 1 year. I know this sounds weird, but something tells me not to drop Sutherland. So I'll trust my gut since it's just one firm.
Last edited by Perseus_I on Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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thesealocust
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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby thesealocust » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:10 pm

All DC firms are extremely selective, based on grades and everything else. There are no firms in DC that are even moderately easy to get.

People with great credentials frequently get fewer offers if going for DC than for other markets.

Your ties, grades, and school gives you a shot - but given the small classes sizes/number of firms in DC vs. the number of people from around the country who want to go to DC, it's not smart to just toss a few interviews in and hope for the best.

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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:15 pm

Perseus_I wrote:
thesealocust wrote:It might be smart to drop the DC firms. They're generally much harder to get just based on numbers and also looking for strong ties or reasons to be in DC.

Maybe even the same for NYC.


I don't have enough other preselects to risk dropping all the NYC firms.

So drop:

1. Cadwalader
2. Quinn Emanuel
3. Bracewell & Giuliani LLP, (NY)
4. S&C

Replace with:

1. GDC (SF)
2. Gardere (Houston - relatively large class size)
3. Ware Jackson
4. Thompson & Knight L.L.P. (Dallas, TX)

I actually worked in D.C. for nearly 1 year. I know this sounds weird, but something tells me not to drop Sutherland. So I'll trust my gut since it's just one firm.


drop sutherland. I interviewed with them for 1L. PM me if you want details.

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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby gyarados » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:23 am

Quinn is a terrible fit for you based on how much you're thinking about this. Cadwalader treats their associates like shit. I would drop those two.

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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby de5igual » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:40 am

I wouldn't drop S&C if I were you. They're extremely grades-focused, and if you suck at interviewing but otherwise have the credentials, it seems like a safer bet than many of the Texas places you have listed.

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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:43 pm

f0bolous wrote:I wouldn't drop S&C if I were you. They're extremely grades-focused, and if you suck at interviewing but otherwise have the credentials, it seems like a safer bet than many of the Texas places you have listed.


Isn't 3.67 a bit low for S&C? I'd probably drop them, unless you like high risk high reward interview strategies.

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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby Perseus_I » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:46 pm

f0bolous wrote:I wouldn't drop S&C if I were you. They're extremely grades-focused, and if you suck at interviewing but otherwise have the credentials, it seems like a safer bet than many of the Texas places you have listed.


I did another practice interview with other counselors in CSO, and they, again, found no major problems. Besides, "you sometimes appeared hunkered down, firing off answers, rather than letting the conversation flow naturally. Try to be more relaxed and conversational. Try to go to more mixers/networking events since you seem to do really well at those." Also, "coming across as a laid-back guy" may not be a great fit for some NY firms, they said, though it's not clear how that advice squares with the former advice of being more laid-back.

I am wondering if it's a combination of accent, almost exclusively Southern ties, and low-end grades that made me go 2/14 in NYC. I just don't think social skills are the issue here -- except to the extent they mentioned that I appeared too "hunkered down."

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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby Perseus_I » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:47 pm

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
f0bolous wrote:I wouldn't drop S&C if I were you. They're extremely grades-focused, and if you suck at interviewing but otherwise have the credentials, it seems like a safer bet than many of the Texas places you have listed.


Isn't 3.67 a bit low for S&C? I'd probably drop them, unless you like high risk high reward interview strategies.


Yes, exactly what I was thinking. Same with Quinn?

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Re: Which interviews to cancel?

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:52 pm

Perseus_I wrote:
f0bolous wrote:I wouldn't drop S&C if I were you. They're extremely grades-focused, and if you suck at interviewing but otherwise have the credentials, it seems like a safer bet than many of the Texas places you have listed.


I did another practice interview with other counselors in CSO, and they, again, found no major problems. Besides, "you sometimes appeared hunkered down, firing off answers, rather than letting the conversation flow naturally. Try to be more relaxed and conversational. Try to go to more mixers/networking events since you seem to do really well at those." Also, "coming across as a laid-back guy" may not be a great fit for some NY firms, they said, though it's not clear how that advice squares with the former advice of being more laid-back.

I am wondering if it's a combination of accent, almost exclusively Southern ties, and low-end grades that made me go 2/14 in NYC. I just don't think social skills are the issue here -- except to the extent they mentioned that I appeared too "hunkered down."


I wouldn't freak out too much. I had a friend with higher grades that got similar results. The NYC job fair was filled with v15 firms, so you shouldnt be shocked by the results.




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