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Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:57 pm
by Anonymous User
Another no offer joining in on the misery. Started spamming applications elsewhere.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:06 pm
by rad lulz
This thread is making me nervous as fuck.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:17 pm
by Anonymous User
In this economy nothing is certain. Getting an offer is not that easy anymore.

Also, coming from a T-14, a no-offer won't kill your career. If somebody tells you that it does, he/she is an idiot. It will suck for the short term but you will be ok for the long term.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:18 pm
by Anonymous User
My entire summer class was no-offered a few years back. The two of us that landed clerkships have done well, and even arguably upgraded in terms of firm quality. The others are employed as attorneys. They don't get to brag that they work at a Vault firm, but they pay their bills.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:20 pm
by HWS08
I can't offer any advice, but just wanted to say I'm sorry. I can only imagine (and I hope I only ever have to imagine) how horrible that must feel. Good luck.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:24 pm
by Anonymous User
That is the problem of hiring two years in advance. It is hard to predict the right number of people a firm will need, and if the big firm makes a mistake, it is the SAs that get screwed.

That is why it is very important (if you have multiple offers) to seriously consider choosing the firm that historically gives 100% offer rates.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:28 pm
by Anonymous User
T-14 graduate here. I was no-offered in 2010. It sucks. Period. No question this was a major blow to my pride, and sense of worth, accomplishments etc... Start applying for fall and spring internships in the subject area(s) you are interested in, potentially in areas other than you were given assignments on at the firm. Putting as much distance between yourself and your no-offer on your resume is best. Plus, specializing will greatly help in applying for non-law jobs if you choose to go government or non-profit in that subject area. I second all advice on applying for clerkships asap. I kind of waited to explore this until it was too late. Big mistake. End of the story is I did 2 internships at different government agencies with related missions and now I work for one of the agencies. Seriously, do anything you can to take your mind off it, and eventually, it will be old news. Plus, you'll still have biglaw on your resume with 0-1 bullet :)

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:31 pm
by flcath
If it happens (I'm sorry to be insensitive w/ this question, no-offerees), should you still put the work on your resume? What if you split your summer with relatively high-end PI work?

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:32 pm
by Anonymous User
What are the "good" government jobs where biglaw/midlaw are still a possibility as a lateral?

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:07 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:Another no offer.

I have a screener or two ahead. How to handle this?

Any ideas about this? I just want to know how to discuss the issue during interviews, or even just during informal chats or networking events. I literally have no idea how to deal with it. What do I tell people?

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:11 pm
by Agent
I would also look into whether the no-offering firm has a neutral reference policy.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:48 pm
by Anonymous User
A lot of people suggest to do a clerkship...

Does that mean judges do not ask whether you received an offer from SA position? Or, they just don't care?

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:08 pm
by Anonymous User
Is there any way to find out historical offer rates? I know NALP gives prior year rates but what about before that?

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:22 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:A lot of people suggest to do a clerkship...

Does that mean judges do not ask whether you received an offer from SA position? Or, they just don't care?


Usually they won't ask. I did 5 clerkship interviews, and not a single judge asked whether or not I got an offer from my summer firm. If the judge didn't come from Biglaw, he/she may not even know that post-graduation offers are generally expected.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:30 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:A lot of people suggest to do a clerkship...

Does that mean judges do not ask whether you received an offer from SA position? Or, they just don't care?

I interviewed with multiple judges and was never asked. I don't think they care much.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:56 pm
by Loose Seal
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Another no offer.

I have a screener or two ahead. How to handle this?

Any ideas about this? I just want to know how to discuss the issue during interviews, or even just during informal chats or networking events. I literally have no idea how to deal with it. What do I tell people?


Do you know why you were no-offered? Was it for fit reasons or work product reasons? If work product, did you miss deadlines? Misunderstand an assignment? Have personal issues during the summer? The spin you put on the no-offer probably depends on the reasons for it.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:15 pm
by Anonymous User
Agent wrote:I would also look into whether the no-offering firm has a neutral reference policy.

What does this mean? Is it the same as asking whether I can say I had an offer? Is this even done?

Any thoughts on leaving the SA off the resume?

My school is in a different region than the SA. During interviews, I could claim that I really want to stay near my school (or anywhere other than the SA region), but that would imply that I turned down the offer. In any case, I am certain potential employers will ask, and have no idea what to say.

The lack of info on this topic is frustrating.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:21 pm
by anon168
Anonymous User wrote:
Agent wrote:I would also look into whether the no-offering firm has a neutral reference policy.

What does this mean? Is it the same as asking whether I can say I had an offer? Is this even done?

Any thoughts on leaving the SA off the resume?

My school is in a different region than the SA. During interviews, I could claim that I really want to stay near my school (or anywhere other than the SA region), but that would imply that I turned down the offer. In any case, I am certain potential employers will ask, and have no idea what to say.

The lack of info on this topic is frustrating.


Some firms will not disclose whether or not you received an offer if an employer calls and asks.

Some firms will give you what's called a "cold offer" or "soft offer" where you can tell future employers that you got an offer from your SA firm, with the (wink wink) understanding that you really did not.

I would not leave the SA position off your resume. It looks bad to have a gap, and it raises more suspicions than it does alleviating them.

When you do OCI again, simply say that you do not want to return to the SA firm because of any one of the reasons: (1) different market; (2) practice area; (3) firm size; (4) or a combo of all of the above.

Relax, it's not the end of the world. PM me if you want.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:08 pm
by flcath
Loose Seal wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Another no offer.

I have a screener or two ahead. How to handle this?

Any ideas about this? I just want to know how to discuss the issue during interviews, or even just during informal chats or networking events. I literally have no idea how to deal with it. What do I tell people?


Do you know why you were no-offered? Was it for fit reasons or work product reasons? If work product, did you miss deadlines? Misunderstand an assignment? Have personal issues during the summer? The spin you put on the no-offer probably depends on the reasons for it.

People get no-offered for fit reasons? Like, non-total-assholes? Their opportunity to screen for fit should be the screeners and CBs.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:23 pm
by Loose Seal
flcath wrote:
Loose Seal wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Another no offer.

I have a screener or two ahead. How to handle this?

Any ideas about this? I just want to know how to discuss the issue during interviews, or even just during informal chats or networking events. I literally have no idea how to deal with it. What do I tell people?


Do you know why you were no-offered? Was it for fit reasons or work product reasons? If work product, did you miss deadlines? Misunderstand an assignment? Have personal issues during the summer? The spin you put on the no-offer probably depends on the reasons for it.

People get no-offered for fit reasons? Like, non-total-assholes? Their opportunity to screen for fit should be the screeners and CBs.


The only fit issues I know of involve people who revealed themselves to be truly horrible during the course of the summer. You don't always get a sense for that kind of thing in an interview/callback. AFAIK, normal law student awkwardness generally is not encompassed in "fit."

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:36 pm
by flcath
Loose Seal wrote:The only fit issues I know of involve people who revealed themselves to be truly horrible during the course of the summer. You don't always get a sense for that kind of thing in an interview/callback. AFAIK, normal law student awkwardness generally is not encompassed in "fit."

Tyty. My place is really big on it in the hiring process, and I just am not as charming and engaging and likable IRL as I was in the interview process.

I just worry b/c almost everyone here (and everyone young) is either very charismatic or very attractive. Not living up to that standard doesn't strike me as a 'fair' reason to no-offer, tho.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:40 pm
by MrAnon
Never tell any future interviewer you didn't get an offer. If they contact your old firm the only thing your old firm will do is confirm dates of employment and they won't make any comment on your file. Get a letter of reference from someone at the firm who liked you.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:53 pm
by Anonymous User
MrAnon wrote:Never tell any future interviewer you didn't get an offer. If they contact your old firm the only thing your old firm will do is confirm dates of employment and they won't make any comment on your file. Get a letter of reference from someone at the firm who liked you.


Most are going to ask, and lying is not a good thing to do.

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:57 pm
by Anonymous User
MrAnon wrote:Never tell any future interviewer you didn't get an offer.


And what do you suggest to say?

Re: No-offered summer associate. FML

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:06 pm
by Anonymous User
Loose Seal wrote:
The only fit issues I know of involve people who revealed themselves to be truly horrible during the course of the summer. You don't always get a sense for that kind of thing in an interview/callback. AFAIK, normal law student awkwardness generally is not encompassed in "fit."


I think it depends on the firm and the market. In firms that typically only offer 80-90% (e.g. BigTex, some midlaw), typical law student awkwardness can do it.