Tanicius wrote:I dunno. The people in the interview would probably come to the same conclusion you just did.
LMAO people really just can't believe that someone could be no-offered for grades? The TLS mantra just has to be right all the time doesn't it?
I know from experience that grades--regardless of what garbage is pushed on here--still matter at the summer stage. But even if I didn't have the personal knowledge I just don't get where that idea came from in the first place. So even though grades are essentially the only thing that matters before getting the job, people suddenly think they become meaningless after you start working as an intern
? Seriously? If you have bad grades they can get you no offered. The only 3L interviewer who might think someone with bad grades who didn't get an offer and says that that was the reason why is a recent law school graduate who takes TLS mantra as gospel.
The legal market is huge - some firms probably consider grades when making offers. But there's plenty of evidence to suggest that the majority of them don't. The statistics suggest it (most firms give offers to most summers, some actually do give 100% offers), the anecdotes suggest it (plenty of people with grades that dropped got offers, plenty of people got offers before furnishing 2L grades to their firms), and plenty of inside knowledge suggests it (i.e. partners and recruiters flat out admitting it doesn't matter).
The reason is also clear: when hiring 1Ls the firms have far, far more applicants than slots. They have to 'cull the heard' somehow, and 1L grades are at least a rough proxy for intelligence, work ethic, and pain-tolerance. After
1L year, grades are easily gamed (at most schools) and firms have much more important data about you: how you work and fit in over a several week trial at the firm. 2L year, you didn't get smarter or dumber, no matter what your grades say. And most firms with big summer programs plan them out so that if all goes well they don't need
to give out no-offers, so there's no more reason to find a way to screen people. Simply put, your 2L grades provide no useful data to the firm about your ability to do the things they'll need you to do as a lawyer - especially
compared with your performance over the summer.
I've had conversations with several hiring partners who have bemoaned the fact that they even need to use grades for 1Ls
. Grades simply don't predict how somebody will work at the firm very well.